"Fisted" points

harpsman

I find hand passing the ball over the bar one of the most annoying aspects of the game. Theres already too much hand passing;now you dont even have to kick the ball to score a point.
Surely banning this method of scoring would improve the game as a spectacle and would probably increase the amount of goals if players had to kick the ball when close to goal.

rebel girl 15

harpsman wrote: »

I find hand passing the ball over the bar one of the most annoying aspects of the game. Theres already too much hand passing;now you dont even have to kick the ball to score a point.
Surely banning this method of scoring would improve the game as a spectacle and would probably increase the amount of goals if players had to kick the ball when close to goal.

Don't think it would increase the amount of goal tbh, lot of fisted points are from tight angles where the player can't swing a foot at the ball, so wouldn't be able to score a goal either with the foot. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Would you want to stop the goals scored by flicking the ball to the net with the hand as well?

Kojak

harpsman wrote: »

I find hand passing the ball over the bar one of the most annoying aspects of the game. Theres already too much hand passing;now you dont even have to kick the ball to score a point.
Surely banning this method of scoring would improve the game as a spectacle and would probably increase the amount of goals if players had to kick the ball when close to goal.

If you were to do that, then probably the kicked goal in hurling would have to go as well, which instead of increasing the number of goals pwer game, would actually reduce them.

Anyway a point of goal is scored should be allowed, increased scoring equals more excitement, interest imo.

Fr Tod Umptious

harpsman wrote: »

I find hand passing the ball over the bar one of the most annoying aspects of the game. Theres already too much hand passing;now you dont even have to kick the ball to score a point.
Surely banning this method of scoring would improve the game as a spectacle and would probably increase the amount of goals if players had to kick the ball when close to goal.

I think the fisted point is a great tool when a team is about to pounce and close out a game that they should be loosing.
It's a great example of a player and team that have confidence in themselves

The best scenario where it is used is as follows

Good, experienced team are level with little time left on a clock against a group of underdogs.

Underdogs go down the field a make a bad decision and shoot for a goal and it is not scored.

Good, experienced team win the kick-out (or turn the ball over shortly after the kick-out) and go up the field, with the player with the ball in a good position for a goal he decides to just fist it over the bar to take the lead.

Now the underdogs are loosing and the final whistle is not too far away, the good, experienced team, may often tag on another point at this stage to close out the game.

TopOfTheRight

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think the fisted point is a great tool when a team is about to pounce and close out a game that they should be loosing.
It's a great example of a player and team that have confidence in themselves

The best scenario where it is used is as follows

Good, experienced team are level with little time left on a clock against a group of underdogs.

Underdogs go down the field a make a bad decision and shoot for a goal and it is not scored.

Good, experienced team win the kick-out (or turn the ball over shortly after the kick-out) and go up the field, with the player with the ball in a good position for a goal he decides to just fist it over the bar to take the lead.

Now the underdogs are loosing and the final whistle is not too far away, the good, experienced team, may often tag on another point at this stage to close out the game.

TopOfTheRight

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Apparently it's a skill only the good players and teams use.

padd b1975

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think the fisted point is a great tool when a team is about to pounce and close out a game that they should be loosing.
It's a great example of a player and team that have confidence in themselves

The best scenario where it is used is as follows

Good, experienced team are level with little time left on a clock against a group of underdogs.

Underdogs go down the field a make a bad decision and shoot for a goal and it is not scored.

Good, experienced team win the kick-out (or turn the ball over shortly after the kick-out) and go up the field, with the player with the ball in a good position for a goal he decides to just fist it over the bar to take the lead.

Now the underdogs are loosing and the final whistle is not too far away, the good, experienced team, may often tag on another point at this stage to close out the game.

Classic example of your scenario occured in the closing stages of 2004 All Ireland Semi Final replay between Mayo and Fermanagh.

doc_17

Nothinh wrong with it. So many other things with modern day Gaelic would annoy me before that.

shezmagic

padd b1975 wrote: »

Classic example of your scenario occured in the closing stages of 2004 All Ireland Semi Final replay between Mayo and Fermanagh.

Really, there was a good and experienced team playing that day? Which one was it?

padd b1975

shezmagic wrote: »

Really, there was a good and experienced team playing that day? Which one was it?

Do you have an opinion on fisted points?

keane2097

It would look cumbersome and inelegant for players to attempt to kick points from the positions from which fisted points are usually scored.

Certainly wouldn't add to the game as a spectacle imo.

Making it more difficult to score is very rarely the correct approach to improving a game from an entertainment point of view.

theoneeyedman

i'm glad somone raised this....there is no skill involved in this flicking/handpassing/punching the ball over the bar.....load of nonsense really

J Cheever Loophole

theoneeyedman wrote: »

i'm glad somone raised this....there is no skill involved in this flicking/handpassing/punching the ball over the bar.....load of nonsense really

I disagree - to get the ball so close to goal that it can be fisted over the bar in the first place, is usually down to some good incisive movement and / or team play which enables the ball to be manouevered through the area of the pitch where the defence is tightest. Even where it is as a result of a long punt forward and knock down, that itself brings an element of excitement.

Doing away with the fisted / hand passed point would mean forwards close to goal would get bottled up, as the point option was not available, and the result would be major scrums / schemozzles which can only be resolved by a throw ball.

Leave things the way they are! :cool:

johnmcdnl

theoneeyedman wrote: »

i'm glad somone raised this....there is no skill involved in this flicking/handpassing/punching the ball over the bar.....load of nonsense really

there's a huge amount of skill in kicking the ball over the bar from straight in front of goal from inside the 21 yard line too :rolleyes: load of nonsense that too...

maybe that should be banned too - if your inside the 21 yard line your only allowed go for goal or you have to pass it back out...

The Davestator

Players who fist a point are bottlers and it should definitely be done away with. More goals / saves. It's such an anti climax when a forward is in on goal and fists a point. Lots of support for this at my club and we're bringing it to congress.

rebel girl 15

The Davestator wrote: »

Players who fist a point are bottlers and it should definitely be done away with. More goals / saves. It's such an anti climax when a forward is in on goal and fists a point. Lots of support for this at my club and we're bringing it to congress.

:rolleyes:

Not a hope of that happening, even less of a chance it would pass :pac: :pac:

So the corner forward is five yard out nearly right up on the endline and handpasses the ball over the bar is a bottler when there is 0 chance that he would score a goal if he had a shot - ffs grow up. More shots and saves doesn't make things interesting - it wouldn't happen that there would be more shots and saves, what would happen is that the forward would work the ball out from the endline and we'd have huge bottling up of players - that doesn't improve the game as a spectacle at all. Anti climax? Are you for real?? I'd prefer a forward fisting the ball over the bar than having a shot for a goal saved

The Davestator

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Not a hope of that happening, even less of a chance it would pass :pac: :pac:

So the corner forward is five yard out nearly right up on the endline and handpasses the ball over the bar is a bottler when there is 0 chance that he would score a goal if he had a shot - ffs grow up. More shots and saves doesn't make things interesting - it wouldn't happen that there would be more shots and saves, what would happen is that the forward would work the ball out from the endline and we'd have huge bottling up of players - that doesn't improve the game as a spectacle at all. Anti climax? Are you for real?? I'd prefer a forward fisting the ball over the bar than having a shot for a goal saved

I'm sure people like you were up in arms when fisted goals were banned back in the day so I'll politely refute the above nonsense. I'd you'd prefer to see a fisted point than an amazing goal or save then there's no hope for you. Lol

Littlehorny

where is the skill if you get blocked down shooting for a point when your being tightly marked? a cute forward would have flicked the ball over the bar and put another score on the board. a less skilled player in a tight spot trys to burst the ball over the bar, gets blocked and looks like a plonker!

WesternZulu

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think the fisted point is a great tool when a team is about to pounce and close out a game that they should be loosing.
It's a great example of a player and team that have confidence in themselves

The best scenario where it is used is as follows

Good, experienced team are level with little time left on a clock against a group of underdogs.

Underdogs go down the field a make a bad decision and shoot for a goal and it is not scored.

Good, experienced team win the kick-out (or turn the ball over shortly after the kick-out) and go up the field, with the player with the ball in a good position for a goal he decides to just fist it over the bar to take the lead.

Now the underdogs are loosing and the final whistle is not too far away, the good, experienced team, may often tag on another point at this stage to close out the game.

You're from Kerry aren't you...

rebel girl 15

The Davestator wrote: »

I'm sure people like you were up in arms when fisted goals were banned back in the day so I'll politely refute the above nonsense. I'd you'd prefer to see a fisted point than an amazing goal or save then there's no hope for you. Lol

No hope for me - gwan away back under the rock! Amazing goal?? From the angles that lads fist points from? It wouldn't be called an amazing goal, it would be called a howler by the keeper!!! I've no problem with not being allowed fist a goal. You don't get the point I'm making - there wouldn't be more saves - a forward is not going to take a shot on that they know the keeper will save, they will pass the ball back out for a point and the players will end up being bottled up and not being able to take a shot easily. You do realise that goalkeepers are actually quite skilled players these days!

I'd much prefer, and I'm sure a lot of other people on here would agree, to see a forward take an easy fisted point from a tight angle, than shooting for goal from tight angles and it being saved. Thats for both teams I watch and teams I coach. This whole thread sounds like a complete and utter windup tbh! :pac:

edit - oh have a read of the official guide before you go spouting on about your club bringing it to congress :rolleyes: There are 10/12 things I'd change before the game than being able to fist the ball over the bar

harpsman

johnmcdnl wrote: »

there's a huge amount of skill in kicking the ball over the bar from straight in front of goal from inside the 21 yard line too :rolleyes: load of nonsense that too...

maybe that should be banned too - if your inside the 21 yard line your only allowed go for goal or you have to pass it back out...

ive seen plenty of good forwards miss from 20 yards,not to mention the bad ones.

The Davestator

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

No hope for me - gwan away back under the rock! Amazing goal?? From the angles that lads fist points from? It wouldn't be called an amazing goal, it would be called a howler by the keeper!!! I've no problem with not being allowed fist a goal. You don't get the point I'm making - there wouldn't be more saves - a forward is not going to take a shot on that they know the keeper will save, they will pass the ball back out for a point and the players will end up being bottled up and not being able to take a shot easily. You do realise that goalkeepers are actually quite skilled players these days!

I'd much prefer, and I'm sure a lot of other people on here would agree, to see a forward take an easy fisted point from a tight angle, than shooting for goal from tight angles and it being saved. Thats for both teams I watch and teams I coach. This whole thread sounds like a complete and utter windup tbh! :pac:

edit - oh have a read of the official guide before you go spouting on about your club bringing it to congress :rolleyes: There are 10/12 things I'd change before the game than being able to fist the ball over the bar

Oh well if there 10/12 things YOU'D change before fisted points, we'll hold off till the game is as you like it. We'll agree to disagree and that you're wrong with your silly childish argument and little faces. I've no doubt that it will be banned in the medium term but until then, enjoy the ****ty easy bottler fisted points.

rebel girl 15

The Davestator wrote: »

Oh well if there 10/12 things YOU'D change before fisted points, we'll hold off till the game is as you like it. We'll agree to disagree and that you're wrong with your silly childish argument and little faces. I've no doubt that it will be banned in the medium term but until then, enjoy the ****ty easy bottler fisted points.

We'll agree to disagree and then you say I'm wrong

You'd want to look up the definition of what agreeing to disagreeing is. As for my silly childish arguement, your posts stink of childish behaviour - instead of refuting my points with valid points, you go and call me childish :rolleyes: No point in trying to reason with people that are living in their own little world - I've put a valid argument across and when people can't deal with a valid argument, they end up insulting the poster as above.

Its not like fisted point are common and that half the scores in a game are coming from them - someone like you will probably be over on the soccer forum saying that headed goals shouldn't be allowed in soccer

ArmaniJeanss

The Davestator wrote: »

Players who fist a point are bottlers and it should definitely be done away with. More goals / saves. It's such an anti climax when a forward is in on goal and fists a point. Lots of support for this at my club and we're bringing it to congress.

The Davestator wrote: »

I've no doubt that it will be banned in the medium term but until then, enjoy the ****ty easy bottler fisted points.

I'm sensing that your club lost an important match where the opposition corner forward showed supreme bottle to nail a handful of crucial fisted points late on????

The Davestator

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm sensing that your club lost an important match where the opposition corner forward showed supreme bottle to nail a handful of crucial fisted points late on????

Ha ha, no. Just hate that a point can be scored with such a basic skill.

Fr Tod Umptious

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Apparently it's a skill only the good players and teams use.

Not so much a skill but certainly an tool of a good player. A good player is able to see the benefit of tacking on a point rather than shooting for a gaol with a lower probability of success.
And good teams usually have good players

The Davestator wrote: »

I'm sure people like you were up in arms when fisted goals were banned back in the day

The fisted goal was a different animal altogether. It was far more opportunist.
Very much a case of being in the right place and the right time.
The fisted point requires decision making by the player with the ball, the fisted goal required a lot less.

How many times have you shouted at a player on your team to 'just fist it over from there', and then your team go on to loose by a point ?

WesternZulu wrote: »

You're from Kerry aren't you...

No, same place as yourself actually.
But Kerry are brilliant at doing it, watch the likes of Marc O' S run down the wing, late in the game, with the result in the balance, and just causally pop over a point with the fist and destroy the opposition with it.

Hammer Archer

The Davestator wrote: »

Ha ha, no. Just hate that a point can be scored with such a basic skill.

And kicking it over from 10 yards is a supreme skill is it? As rebel girl said, most fisted points are from tight angles where it would take a minor miracle to get a goal out of it. I really can't see the problem some people have with it.

flahavaj

The Davestator wrote: »

Players who fist a point are bottlers and it should definitely be done away with. More goals / saves. It's such an anti climax when a forward is in on goal and fists a point. Lots of support for this at my club and we're bringing it to congress.

No, players that get a rush of blood to the head and go for a goal but have it blocked by the onrushing keeper are bottlers. The fella that fists over the point is a cute hoor.

Optimalprimerib

There is not one thing I hate in the game more, it is rare in games that a player get free on goal and to see them bottle it and take the safe option irritates me.

I would like to see a trial in the league to remove it and see how it works

jemser

Fisted points are fine especially when your in on goal at a bad angle,you find the players who shoot in these positions are generally not the brightest and certainly get told this after they've balloon the ball wide or out for a side line ball......players catching the ball directly from kick outs and then been swarmed by the opposition is what really annoys me these days

Flukey

It is not always the prettiest to watch and it is often as easy to kick from where it is punched, but it would be ridiculous to get rid of it. Most points are kicked and fisted ones are usually from close in when it is harder to kick it or from tight angles. The use of the hands is a central element of Gaelic Football and if we can use the hands, then we should be able to score with them.

Flukey

Flukey wrote: »

It is not always the prettiest to watch and it is often as easy to kick from where it is punched, but it would be ridiculous to get rid of it. Most points are kicked and fisted ones are usually from close in when it is harder to kick it or from tight angles. The use of the hands is a central element of Gaelic Football and if we can use the hands, then we should be able to score with them.

I don't think anyone would have a problem except the whole game is played with the hands now.

You always hear complaints about the ''Blanket defence''... fact is if the ball is moved quick with the foot from a turnover, the blanket defence doesn't work as it takes time for players to get back.

I'd still watch the Galway games as keenly as always, but as a neutral I'd rarely watch football now, it's just beyond boring, with both teams kicking the ball about 5 times a game.

What seems to happen now is the ball is turned over, a sequence of slow handpasses takes place, the team gets within range and either gets a kick at goal or hunts and wins a free.
Whenever the ball is kicked it's put out of play or misdirected.

They need to adjust the game, but that won't happen unless numbers drop off substantially.

The handpassing in Aussie Rules is so much better to see in flow as the man caught in possession risks a free against him so it's moved at pace, whereas we have this ridicules tackle in place where you can't touch a player arsing about with it

blackbelt

The Davestator wrote: »

Players who fist a point are bottlers and it should definitely be done away with. More goals / saves. It's such an anti climax when a forward is in on goal and fists a point. Lots of support for this at my club and we're bringing it to congress.

Yes, so was Michael Dara McAulay a bottler when he fisted an insurance point from an awkward acute angle to beat Tyrone in last years quarter final?...I don't think so.

Whatever about limiting the amount of handpasses in general play, the fisted point is a skill that should be left rewarded for buildup play whether bad or good.

Squareball2010

Never heard such nonsense in all my life as to hear this 'do away with the fisted handpass and you'll increase scoring argument'! Fact of the matter is a fisted point IS a skill and is something special certainly when you see it from nigh on impossible angles how a player manages to fist the ball over the bar.....it gives everyone a lift....supporters, players, management! Of course there are times when a goal is on and the forward chooses to take the point....so be it!! This is down to the individuals decision making and not a fault of the fisted point!

Leave it as is....its called gaelic football for a reason...this allows use of the hand/fist aswell as the foot! We don't need to be moving closer to soccer or football as they call!



"If it ain't broken don't fix it":)

theoneeyedman

Littlehorny wrote: »

where is the skill if you get blocked down shooting for a point when your being tightly marked? a cute forward would have flicked the ball over the bar and put another score on the board. a less skilled player in a tight spot trys to burst the ball over the bar, gets blocked and looks like a plonker!

the skill is not in getting your shot blocked, rather in NOT getting your shot blocked down. look there are bigger issues in the game than this, but IMHO the fisted point is a soft option and adds nothing to our game