What do web developers use?

omen80

Hi, I'm just wondering what software most professional web developers use? I was recommended Drupal but it seems that no coding is involved. I would like to get experienced with a package to increase my chances of getting a web dev job. I'm interested in both front end and back end!

Thanks

Liam Byrne

omen80 wrote: »

Hi, I'm just wondering what software most professional web developers use? I was recommended Drupal but it seems that no coding is involved. I would like to get experienced with a package to increase my chances of getting a web dev job. I'm interested in both front end and back end!

Thanks

Firstly get your terminology right; Drupal is a CMS.

And you'll get a million answers this question since there are a range of levels of development; some design houses use stuff like Joomla or Drupal, others don't.

It depends on whether you want to actually develop or just plug existing things together.

Complex sites are probably custom jobs using the PHP MySQL platform, which is the basis for most CMSs.

fasty

Most "professionals" try to shoehorn all sorts of sites into Wordpress.

Skrynesaver

Well in my case all of the following either as the primary web application, the supporting framework, test tools, administration utilities or editors.

Java, Tomcat, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, OpenLDAP, MySQL, Oracle, BerkeleyDB, JMeter, Perl, Catalyst, Eclipse, vi, Python, Gimp...

Your question is kind of open-ended, if you are looking at developing real web-applications then I'd personally recommend learning Java and Tomcat, but it depends on whether you want to work as a code developer, a web developer, or as fasty mentions a cowboy.

Joneser

As mentioned it depends a lot on what you are looking to do. If you just want to make some sites, I would recommend JavaScript, CSS, PHP and MySQL (HTML as well but that goes without saying).

@Skrynesaver While I know that all of those mentioned in your post are very handy, I doubt a beginner would be in need of something like JMeter for quite some way down the line.

omen80

Thanks for the replies. I know some HTML and Css already, and I have experience with C++ programming so hopefully Javascript won't be a big leap. But I was under the impression that most developers would use a program to get the template and design together first, and then start adding code?

Skrynesaver

As a programmer, you can use a templating system such as JSP in an application server such as Tomcat to deliver the content.

You can extend the tag libraries available in Tomcat yourself adding bespoke functionality to your application.

Liam Byrne

omen80 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I know some HTML and Css already, and I have experience with C++ programming so hopefully Javascript won't be a big leap. But I was under the impression that most developers would use a program to get the template and design together first, and then start adding code?

Again, you're mixing up the terminologies.

A "program to get the template and design together" would be something like a combination of Dreamweaver and PhotoShop.

Experienced developers who want control over the code would usually use a text editor to create the HTML & CSS, making the need for Dreamweaver for that aspect debatable.

With Joomla, WordPress and Drupal you're almost fighting AGAINST the system to create the design that you want.

onemorechance

There are many ways of going about web development. The software you use can vary from a simple text editor such as notepad to more complex (and expensive) editors such as Dreamweaver.

Drupal, Wordpress etc. are Content Management Systems which are supposed to help ease the development and maintenance of web applications. They are mostly based on PHP. They [wrap ¦ enhance ¦ add to] functionality available in the PHP programming language in a way which you can more easily add components using their visual editors.

Since most of them are based on PHP, you might be better to learn PHP than a specific CMS at first. It will also help you do more with the CMS, or trouble-shoot (debug) the developed application, if you can understand the PHP code behind it all.

I'm not really sure how companies that use CMS operate, but in general, you should learn to use an Integrated Development Environment (IDE) such as Eclipse. Eclipse is free and is very useful. It has many features to aid development, such as syntax highlighting, autocomplete suggestions etc. It also has many plug-ins which you will need, or should need, as a develeoper. These plug-ins allow you to simplyfy, automate and execute many different tasks in the Eclipse environment. These include building the project, testing the project, versioning the project etc.

You mentioned:

But I was under the impression that most developers would use a program to get the template and design together first, and then start adding code?

Designing a web application (layout) and developing a web application (back-end) should be somewhat separate. In most companies, especially in larger ones, they would be different job roles.

Either way, each needs to be analysed and planned. If you need to have log-in part to the web application for example, you should create a log-in component which can be used by front-end layout, just so long as they can provide the component with the info needed, usually username and password. Once you have such a component, any front end layout you make can use it.

In short, I would expect you to have more options if you learned PHP than one particular CMS, plus I would expect that using a (PHP) CMS after would be easier. It would be worth finding out how companies that use CMS operate, as maybe there is less distinction between front-end and back-end work with CMS. Since you said you wanted to do both, maybe CMS is the way to go for you!

jmcc

The most obvious bit of software is the brain. If you are good enough, you can think in code but it takes a bit of time to get that good. Most people will not spend the time to get that good and have to use things like IDEs and Frontpage.

Some webdevs knock out sites in Joomla or Wordpress. Some use Dreamweaver as a production tool. However having a firm grounding in HTML, CSS and PHP with a working knowledge of SQL is good.

There are different types of web development and one size does not fit all.

Regards...jmcc

Cunning Alias

Avoid Dreamweaver if you can. Back when I used it, it would always add a pile of unnecessary code (might have changed by now).

I use Notepad++ or Visual Studio when coding html/css/js. Notepad++ is completely free.

As far as templates go, html/css will cover pretty much everything you can think of. There are loads of examples online, so just grab a few and start editing.

As people mentioned before, CMS's (Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress) are a ready to go package that have sample templates as well as free templates you can add. If you want a basic functional cms they are grand. As soon as you want to change something in the layout/template, you will have to get into the code (which can be a mess unless you know exactly what you are looking for.

As far as getting a job goes, having one or two CMS websites can't hurt as long as you understand how they work (I did a few for family friends when I finished college and they seemed to help me). You might be better off grabbing a PHP book that goes from the start to building a full CMS in the end (dynamic front end + database). I found this one handy: http://www.wrox.com/WileyCDA/WroxTitle/Beginning-PHP-5-3.productCd-0470413964.html (although I haven't finished it yet )

Edit: When I was looking for a job a while back I did a few searches for CMS's/Joomla and the only time it came up was as an additional skill. I never saw any jobs that focused on this specifically.

murphaph

I like programmers notepad 2 for simple html/css tasks.

stevenmu

I'd strongly suggest starting out small, getting a good grip on the basics, and then building on that. Ideally I'd even go as far as suggesting that you learn plain standard programming first, ignoring web development and starting with console apps and working up to GUI apps, then learn web design with HTML/CSS/Javascript, then learn to combine the two.

That might be a bit OTT though if you're really just interested in web development. At a minimum I would suggest that you forget all about CMS and frameworks, and start out learning how to do things from scratch.

Since you seem to be interested in server side coding, the first you need to do is pick a server side language/platform. The main three would be ASP.Net, Java (JSP?) and PHP. Despite what 99% of people will say, it doesn't really matter much which you pick, look at all 3, look at some of the tutorials and resources available, and just see which appeals to you most. The tools you then use will mostly depend on which platform you have chosen.

Once you have really gotten the hang of the server side language of your choice, and have a good knowledge of HTML/CSS/Javascript, then you can start looking at frameworks. In short frameworks are bundled up bits of code that provide a lot of the functionality you will use in many applications, they will speed up and ease your development significantly, but it's important to have a good grasp of the basics before using them. They're a great way to cut corners, but you need to know the corner well before you should cut it.

Then move onto looking at CMS, in short these are full fledged web applications that you can literally just install and have a data driven web site up and running in seconds. But, in general you'll want to customise them significantly, changing the look and feel and changing or adding functionality, and all the bits you've learned in the previous steps will help enormously here.

stevenmu

fasty wrote: »

Most "professionals" try to shoehorn all sorts of sites into Wordpress.

Just to add to this, the reason many 'professionals' try to do this kind of thing is because they simply learned how to use Wordpress (a CMS) first and didn't bother with anything else. It becomes the only thing they know and the only tool on their belt and they have no capability to switch to other more suitable tools, which is exactly why I suggest learnign from the basics first.

(I'm sure that's exactly what Fasty is implying but I thought it's worth spelling out)

Liam Byrne

Cunning Alias wrote: »

Avoid Dreamweaver if you can. Back when I used it, it would always add a pile of unnecessary code (might have changed by now).

I raised this as an issue a while back and someone said that newer versions are less unwieldy.

Unfortunately for Macromedia/Adobe I gave up using it for the above reason and haven't upgraded, so I don't know whether or not the above is true.

Dermo

At work I develop web applications in many different languages.
If I'm coding in Java I will use SpringSource (a Spring loaded version of Eclipse)
If I'm coding in C#, .net etc I will use Visual Studio 2008
If I'm coding in php, html5, javascript etc I will use Notepad++ or Vim depending on what machine I'm using.

It all does depend on what you are coding.

boblong

Meh could actually be an interesting thread.

Am using:

• Textwrangler
• Versions
• Github for Mac
• Chrome + dev tools
• HTTP Headers (Chrome extension)
• HTTP Scoop
• Hex Fiend
• iTerm
• Xcode + iOS Simulator
• SpringSource Tool Suite
• WaterRoof

was.deevey

Most "professionals" try to shoehorn all sorts of sites into Wordpress.

As one of these "professionals" who occasionally shoehorns

.. and in my defence, the (majority) of customers wont budge from the Wordpress platform and have their minds made up before a consultancy is even done. Why ? Because "Oh I used it before...and it was easy" or "I was told by my friend xyz that its the best for google" Of course without any regard for limitations it might have or new features they wish to implement down the line.

On more than one occasion though their goal posts moved midway though development and ended up going Joomla on their Ass.

The ones who wont budge and I've given fair warning to get a hefty quote for being an Ass in the first place for not listening to decent advice.

Anyhows Back OT .. there is no one-size-fits-all solution for development platforms.

Malice

Depending on the project I'll be running Visual Studio 2010, Visual Studio 2008 or plain old NotePad++ (for a PHP project I got volunteered for).

Razzuh

If I'm coding in php, html5, javascript etc I will use Notepad++ or Vim depending on what machine I'm using.

Depending on the project I'll be running Visual Studio 2010, Visual Studio 2008 or plain old NotePad++ (for a PHP project I got volunteered for).

I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to be saying they use IDEs for everything except PHP. Maybe they only use PHP on very small scale projects, and notepad++ can be great for that. I don't see any other reason that really makes sense of it though.

Have you tried using Netbeans (with PHP plugin obviously)? Support for xdebug. Very handy, I recommend it. You can write your HTML/CSS/JS their as well of course with syntax highlighting, so you've got everything together.

+1 anyone?

Malice

Razzuh wrote: »

I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to be saying they use IDEs for everything except PHP. Maybe they only use PHP on very small scale projects

That's exactly the reason in my case. I've used Eclipse and NetBeans in the past and found them both to be very resource-intensive which slowed me right down in just trying to get things done.

jmcc

Razzuh wrote: »

I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to be saying they use IDEs for everything except PHP. Maybe they only use PHP on very small scale projects, and notepad++ can be great for that. I don't see any other reason that really makes sense of it though.

The requirements of people who work on large scale sites might be different to those of people who work on small sites. Small sites lend themselves to a more integrated approach where the php/css/html can all be easily contained.

There might be a pre-Windows/post-Windows split in that some people are more comfortable working at command line level whereas others prefer the complexity of an IDE. The more proficient someone becomes with a language, the easier it becomes to actually think in the language and write code. In this respect the click and drool nature of an IDE might be a hinderance. Sometimes IDEs are useful but they might be of very little use on a large website where alterations might have to be made in real time to one or two specific files.

Regards...jmcc

Dermo

Razzuh wrote: »

I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to be saying they use IDEs for everything except PHP. Maybe they only use PHP on very small scale projects, and notepad++ can be great for that. I don't see any other reason that really makes sense of it though.

Have you tried using Netbeans (with PHP plugin obviously)? Support for xdebug. Very handy, I recommend it. You can write your HTML/CSS/JS their as well of course with syntax highlighting, so you've got everything together.

+1 anyone?

In my case most of my Java and c#/.net work is for large scale projects. I use php for small personal projects so don't need a full IDE. I do see how it would be needed for large projects though

Creamy Goodness

editplus on windows // text mate/xcode (depending on project) on mac // vim on linux. it's all i need anything else just a) gets in the way or b) resource hog.