3/4 billion euro overseas aid.

RandomName2

Does it make much sense that Ireland is currently putting the best part of 3/4 billion euro overseas aid pro bono when we ourselves are in massive deficit? We are, in fact, borrowing money, and sending some of that money abroad.

What is more, it is dubious whether this monetary aid is a means of sustained development in the third world in the first place!

Or is there actually some material benefit behind this annual expense?

doomed

RandomName2 wrote: »

Does it make much sense that Ireland is currently putting the best part of 3/4 billion euro overseas aid pro bono when we ourselves are in massive deficit? We are, in fact, borrowing money, and sending some of that money abroad.

What is more, it is dubious whether this monetary aid is a means of sustained development in the third world in the first place!

Or is there actually some material benefit behind this annual expense?

Not sure. I think I would feel ashamed if we started cutting back our aid to countries and people that could only dream about living in recession like ours.

Short term the money must help (take it away and see if people are better off or worse) but maybe you are right in that there may be better ways of fostering sustainable development through fair trade but that ain't going to happen anytime soon.

walshb

RandomName2 wrote: »

Does it make much sense that Ireland is currently putting the best part of 3/4 billion euro overseas aid pro bono when we ourselves are in massive deficit?

It makes as much sense as rubber nails!

caseyann

RandomName2 wrote: »

Does it make much sense that Ireland is currently putting the best part of 3/4 billion euro overseas aid pro bono when we ourselves are in massive deficit? We are, in fact, borrowing money, and sending some of that money abroad.

What is more, it is dubious whether this monetary aid is a means of sustained development in the third world in the first place!

Or is there actually some material benefit behind this annual expense?

So long as they feed the problem there will never be a solution.
I saw a woman on tv with 8 kids!!!! who is starving.Who has eight kids when no food.

How much money came to Ireland during famine years and how did Irish get on their feet.Wasnt through constantly getting money and sitting on our asses doing nothing put putting the hand out and doing tv reports.

They dont put the money into the resources of Africa.They do m ine the **** out of the country for the diamonds etc... and all the money goes to the fat cats.While the public are meant to fix it while Irish suffer etc...

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

So long as they feed the problem there will never be a solution.
I saw a woman on tv with 8 kids!!!! who is starving.Who has eight kids when no food....

Did it occur to you that perhaps those children were conceived and born in a time when there was food?

caseyann wrote: »

How much money came to Ireland during famine years and how did Irish get on their feet.Wasnt through constantly getting money and sitting on our asses doing nothing put putting the hand out and doing tv reports.
....

Didn't Irish people have large families at this period?

There was no TV in the 1840's.

As for charity -

Private charity was responsible for keeping hundreds of thousands of people alive in the winter of 1846 to 1847. Catholic Priests organised food for local people. The Society of Friends raised money in America and Britain, and gave it to local areas to allow them to buy food boilers. In London, a group of businessmen collected money (including £2,000 from Queen Victoria) and bought and shipped maize to western Ireland. They also supplied clothes: many of the local people had pawned their winter clothes to buy food. This left them dangerously exposed in the winter months. One observer wrote "Among the thousands I meet, I have seen no one who had clothing corresponding to the bitter cold which is experienced; on the contrary what is beheld is emaciated, pale, shivering, worn-out farming people, wrapt in the most wretched rags, standing or crawling in the snow, bare-footed

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/famine/whig_1846_1847.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Government_response

amacachi

Two options, cut and run and let the problem correct itself or else make the aid useful and not to suit the purposes of The West. Ethiopia for example is a huge producer/exporter of coffee. We send food for free meaning absolutely no incentive for anyone to grow more food than they need for themselves (in good times) and to sell any extra. While we continue to pay a price for cash crops that allows livelihoods to be made while fcuking around with their food markets in a way that doesn't promote self-sufficiency there'll be very little improvement.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

Did it occur to you that perhaps those children were conceived and born in a time when there was food?



Didn't Irish people have large families at this period?

There was no TV in the 1840's.

As for charity -


http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/famine/whig_1846_1847.html




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Government_response

So a little bit of extra food and start having babies for the heck of it(given track record of their country).If was Irish person on dole you would be moaning your ass off right now.

Thats because there was no condoms

Em you really missed the point with the last part.
If Irish didnt pull their own socks up,that aid wouldnt be still coming.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

Em you really missed the point with the last part.
If Irish didnt pull their own socks up,that aid wouldnt be still coming.

That quote contains things I did not say. Please amend it.

Count Dooku

doomed wrote: »

Not sure. I think I would feel ashamed if we started cutting back our aid to countries and people that could only dream about living in recession like ours.

So we must do everything to live in recession like they do

cavedave

Justin Kilcullen head of Troicaire 48:18 in the Frontline 30/05/11 that was here said
"Development aid is what we give to the developing world because we do not give them a decent deal in trade, because we have screwed them on their debts, because the flow of resources...lets change the economic structures that keeps these people poor thats the long term answer"

If the head of an aid agency does not think they are the long term answer for development then they are probably not.

The general agreement among economists is (not strongly) that aid does not really work. With some strong exceptions on childhood medication. Most economists also agree that in cases of disaster like the current famine in East Africa emergency relief should be provided. I would not argue long term interests with a starving baby.

careca11

the oversea's aid goes to the governments of these countries , not much of that filter's down to the people who need it ,

Earlier this year Ethopia spent millions buying Weapon's from the russian's ..............................does that make sense when millions of ethopians are on the verge of dying due to lack of food .

Government should stop all oversea's aid ..........................perhaps donate half of it to charity like the red cross or someone like that ,
and plough the other half back inot this country until such time that we are back on our feet

RandomName2

Nodin wrote: »

Didn't Irish people have large families at this period?

[...] in the 1840's.

As for charity -


http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/famine/whig_1846_1847.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Government_response

What caseyann is forgetting in the Irish context was that there was law, order, and reliable governance. We might say (indeed justifiably) that the Irish did not have due representation or devolved power and that there was virtually no organised development of the country, but Ireland was actually quite stable (albeit poor).

Large families was an endemic problem in Ireland. It was the root cause of the Great Famine. Large families were not exclusive to Ireland. In England large families fed the Industrial Revolution - the solution to overpopulation there were the workhouses. In Ireland the solution (whilst it lasted) was the sub-division of land.

After the Famine the solution of sub-division was shown to be disastrous. Subsequently land was generally left to the eldest son exclusively, with many of the other offspring emigrating.

RandomName2

careca11 wrote: »

the oversea's aid goes to the governments of these countries , not much of that filter's down to the people who need it ,

Earlier this year Ethopia spent millions buying Weapon's from the russian's ..............................does that make sense when millions of ethopians are on the verge of dying due to lack of food .

Government should stop all oversea's aid ..........................perhaps donate half of it to charity like the red cross or someone like that ,
and plough the other half back inot this country until such time that we are back on our feet

Oddly enough Ethiopia buying arms is one of the better uses of those funds. Facilitating semi-permanent refugee towns benefits a large number in the short-run but very few in the long-run.

Somalia's problem is not the drought. Somalia's problem is that it has had a civil war for the best part of twenty years.

If Ethiopia could be trusted to invade Somalia and establish a firm frame of governance there it should be supported. However, arming suspect allies has proven ill founded in the past, and it is doubtful that Ethiopia would ever have the means to create a country out the anarchic mess that Somalia currently is, regardless of military hardware purchases.

RandomName2

cavedave wrote: »

Justin Kilcullen head of Troicaire 48:18 in the Frontline 30/05/11 that was here said
"Development aid is what we give to the developing world because we do not give them a decent deal in trade, because we have screwed them on their debts, because the flow of resources...lets change the economic structures that keeps these people poor thats the long term answer"

If the head of an aid agency does not think they are the long term answer for development then they are probably not.

By 'screwed them on their debts' I assume he is referring to the fact that all their debts were actually written off about four years ago.

arybvtcw0eolkf

caseyann wrote: »

I saw a woman on tv with 8 kids!!!! who is starving.Who has eight kids when no food.

In a region where infant mortality rates are exceptionally high it makes sense to have a lot of children.

That, and a lot of catholic & christian aid agencies play an active part in not education these people on contraception & birth control anyway.

Its not because starvation makes them extra horny.

Adventure Pout

The problem in Africa will NEVER ever be solved while the West continue to give them money. The more money/donation you give them the more they will push the west to give more!!
As said from other posters, the money you give them is wasted on buying weapons and killing each other. Their government is corrupted so bad and they dont care about their people.
Also,why do they keep having children if they know they can't feed them?!?! Might sound controversial but it is also probably a strategy from their government,so that the "idiot or ignorant" western countried can take pictures and short films to show how the african countries are suffering with starvation.
Dont take me wrong but the root cause of Africa is caused by their corrupted government, and they control everything that come in (money from the west, food/clothes etc...). They dont give or likely 3-5% of the donation to their people - they keep the rest for their own good!!! They dont give a damn about their people..

anymore

RandomName2 wrote: »

Does it make much sense that Ireland is currently putting the best part of 3/4 billion euro overseas aid pro bono when we ourselves are in massive deficit? We are, in fact, borrowing money, and sending some of that money abroad.

What is more, it is dubious whether this monetary aid is a means of sustained development in the third world in the first place!

Or is there actually some material benefit behind this annual expense?

Anyone who regularly reads letters from Goal's John O Shea, in the newspapers will have no doubt that much of the aid is simply squandered and I suspect a fair amount of it ends up in offshore accounts*.( *Where aid is paid directly to Governments or State agencies in Africa, then there is little control over its eventual destination ) It seems to be a very complicated issue and one can point at a whole raft of factors which influence productivity and poverty in these regions. Some would include tribalism, seemingly permanent states of civil war, unrestricted population growth, a reliance on traditional agricultural practices which cannot support the levels of population, ingrained corruption, lack of education and the latest and potentially most devastating factor, the effects of global warming.

As regards aid, I wonder how much the enormously wealthy arab states send to their neighbours in the Horn of Africa ?

BlaasForRafa

Kassidy Broad Flower wrote: »

In a region where infant mortality rates are exceptionally high it makes sense to have a lot of children.

That, and a lot of catholic & christian aid agencies play an active part in not education these people on contraception & birth control anyway.

Its not because starvation makes them extra horny.

Christian aid agencies might stop access to contraception in southern africa but I'd say in this case its more likely that the societal pressure of the brand of Islam prevelant in that area prevents access to proper family planning.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

So a little bit of extra food and start having babies for the heck of it(given track record of their country).
.

People living at subsistence level do little "for the heck of it". You might take note of Makikomi and Blaas' points.

caseyann wrote: »

If was Irish person on dole you would be moaning your ass off right now..

I don't engage in single mother bashing, or indeed bashing of ordinary unemployed people regardless of status.

Manach

Kassidy Broad Flower wrote: »

That, and a lot of catholic & christian aid agencies play an active part in not education these people on contraception & birth control anyway.
.

You've failed to mention the present on the ground of Church organisations which help bring African issues to world attention, provide basic care to the people and allow a semblance of societal organistaion that has out lived overt imperialism, Marxist insanity or psudeo-liberal post colonial guilt-trips.