Diamond District New York - Engagement Rings - anyone Experienced?

Du141197

Hi Guys,
Planning on getting down on 1 Knee at the weekend in NYC and heading to the diamond district. Ive heard about Hannikens and Salvatores.
Few Qs.

1. How much can you expect to get off the price when you bargain? My budget is about $5k.
2. Should i bring some cash and credit card?
3. What should i look out for?

Any other tips welcome... im useless at this kinda stuff!

travellingbid

Can recommend Hanikens, mention the Aer Lingus discount! $5k will get you what you would have paid €5k for here. Bring card rather than cash, too much cash in your pocket in NYC is never a good idea. Cash won't make a lot of difference when negotiating. Let us know how you get on!

Spear

Moved from N&F.

dev100

Make sure you ring credit card company before you go . You could be standing there like a twat with card being rejected.

Du141197

thanks guys, think ill load the credit card alright. Any idea of the yardstick for haggling the price down from first asked price?

Paul_Hacket

Okay guys, this is a long post but I live in New York and every time I see posts on here about Irish people coming to NYC to squander huge sums of money on over-priced diamonds in the diamond district I shake my head.

I'd be happy to take any feeback on this as I'd like to see a dialog about this begin and I would especially love to hear the opinions of any women who might read this.

To summarize the post below in simple terms - please, please, PLEASE do not give ANY of you hard earned savings to the skysters who run the diamond district here in New York.

I don't want to offend anyone who plans to buy a diamond, or who has already done so, but at some point we need to look into what we're propogating by buying into the fake 'tradition' of spending huge amounts of our hard earned savings buying diamonds that have practically no inherent value on the open market.

There are many stones which are, in my opinion, much more beutiful than diamonds and which will hold their value much better. Princess Diana and recently Kate Middleton were both given SAPPHIRE engagement rings. Would she consider one of those? Sapphires and other highly precious stones are actually much more rare than diamonds and are genuinely valuable - their value is not based upon the supply being artificially constrained by a single cartel.

The smiling "Hi, how are you!" people who you buy these diamonds from in New York see you as one thing only - a sucker. You are transferring to them a large part of your personal wealth in return for a stone that is not rare and is not valuable. They have paid a pittance for it and they are literally laughing at you when you walk out the door. The only reason that diamonds are expensive is because they control a cartel which has artificially restricted the supply of diamonds to the open market.

Add into that the fact that the mining and processing of these stones widely involves child labor and is used to fund brutal dictatorships and conflicts in Africa before the finances filter to Israel where they are used to build illegal "settlements" on stolen land, and you have one hell of a way to pledge your love to your betrothed.

Are you actually going to give these people $5,000? As a fellow Irish person I am asking you to SERIOUSLY reconsider this. I can tell you as a fact that when you walk in the door to a store on 47th street and the dealer comes out from behind the counter to shake hands and make friendly with you all he is saying to himself is "Here comes another sucker who is willing to p!ss away seveal months of his salary on a gemstone that I paid a pittance for".

Here is what I would ask you to do. Sit your girlfriend down and ask her to have a serious discussion with you about values and what is important to you both. What is important to you in life? You are about to get married and even if you plan to surprise her with the ring you both know it so you should be able to have this conversation without ruining things. Ask her if she'd be willing to talk with you about this issue because you've been reading about the diamonds and where they come from and you want to check with her if she really wants one or would be willing to consider alternatives.

You might bring to her attention the fact that the tradition of giving diamond engagement rings was invented by the De Beers in the late 1940s as a marketing gimick. At that time (and in fact still today) there were far more diamonds in the world than anybody wanted or needed, so they decided to do two things. First of all they launched a huge marketing blitz telling women that 'diamonds are forever', etc. Secondly they created a cartel which survives to this day to artificially reduce the supply of diamonds in order to create artificially high prices.

Don't believe me? Here's something you can try while you are in New York. Go to a diamond dealer and tell him you are interested in a diamond but would like to show it to your jeweller to get a quote for a ring setting. He will allow you to take the diamond from his store if you pay for it in full and give you a written receipt allowing you to return it for a full refund if you bring it back within a couple of days. Now go to any diamond dealer or jeweller you want and ask him how much he will give you for this brand new, never used diamond. You will find that none of them will give you even one third of what you paid for it.

That is because they can get them for a pittance on the wholesale market - and then sell them to suckers like you for vastly inflated prices. I'm sure you don't like being categorized as a sucker but I can assure you that this is what they think you are.

Ask your girlfriend to consider whether going along with a marketing campaign orchestrated by De Beers to brainwash people into buying artificially overpriced diamond from their cartel is REALLY the best way start your marriage off. We've just seen the Irish economy devastated because of 'group-think' where everyone bought an overpriced house etc. simply because "everyone else was doing it". This is exactly the same thing.

Diamonds are a horrible racket. I don't know what your politics are but the proceeds from the sale of many diamonds end up funding horrible dictatorships in Africa, disgusting working conditions for the laborers there and in Asia, including child laborers in many cases. Ultimately the money often flows back to the state of Israel where the government and religious extremist Jews use it to fund the creation of illegal "settlements" built on stolen Palistinian land.

Diamond dealers in New York are not nice people. The trade in New York is completely dominated by Hassidic and Orthodox Jews. These guys treat women like chattel (notice how many women are working in the stores in the diamond district?). In Israel they literally do not allow women to sit in the same part of the bus as men do, but you're going to go to them and give them $5,000 of your hard-earned cash to buy a symbol of your love for you future wife?

If at all possible, don't play their game. Ask your girlfriend if she really wants that diamond and maybe tell her about some of this. A sapphire, or tourmaline, or tanzanite ring is far much more beautiful than a diamond in my opinion and will actually be worth what you pay for it if you go to a reputable dealer.

If she really wants the something that looks like diamond ask her if she would consider a synthetic Zirconium stone. These are chemically and visually exactly the same as diamond - nobody other than a skilled dealer using a loupe could ever tell the difference. They cost about 1/10th of what a 'natural' diamond does.

If you're concerned that your girlfriend will think that you are "cheap" or do not value her tell her that you will spend the extra money left over buying her a beautiful piece of jewelry or some other lasting gift as a token of your love for her - a spectacular string of real pearls perhaps, or a pair of true ruby earrings, or a platinum choker studded with miniature sapphires. Or just invest the money in your future together - keep it for the education of your children maybe or for a rainy day.

If you and your girlfriend decide that you simply MUST have a diamond ring I strongly urge you to look into purchasing a vintage ring from an antique store. Please, please, PLEASE - do not follow the disgusting maxim that some diamond dealers who will tell you that when buying an engagement ring you should spend "several month's salary".

Anyone who gives that much of their hard-earned cash to a diamond dealer truly does deserve the moniker of sucker. Don't be one.

There are two excellent articles linked below which discusses some of these issues in clear and simple terms and which I recommend that any man show his girlfriend when discussing this issue.

Guys, we have to get to work on ending this scam.

And girls - if you agree with any of the above and don't feel that money huge amounts of savings that could be much better spent investing in your life together instead of being squandered on valueless diamonds - then please talk with your fella about it before he heads off to the ring shop!


THE GREATEST STORY EVER SOLD IS A FANTASY COVERED IN BLOOD
http://www.wisebread.com/the-greatest-story-ever-sold-is-a-fantasy-covered-in-blood?page=1


HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO SELL A USED DIAMOND?
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/4575/4/

chogxox

Hey there,

I agree with a certain amount of what the above poster has said but here's my story and you can decide for yourself.

Myself and my boyfriend got engaged in NY in March and we got my ring in Hanikens in the Diamond District. I was clueless when it came to diamonds so had no idea really what to look out for however my fiance had done lots of research. The Diamond District itself is a sleazy dirty street, not what we expected at all so be very careful when heading in. There are guys everywhere trying to sell and buy on the street and in the doorways and will spot you a mile away so just ignore them. Hanikens is actually a counter in one of these shops so you won't see it from the street (it took us ages to find it). We found them very helpful and so nice but we were still very careful as we had heard stories of people buying diamonds in NY. Firstly if you pick your stone ask for the cert number (you can check this with the magnifying glass in the store. All certified diamonds have a number and you can put this number into a website that will confirm the diamonds quality, cut, clarity etc. I'll try find out the site name, can't remember off hand. Anyway, we got what we thought at the time was a very good deal and when I got home that was confirmed when I got it valued. To be honest if you don't find anything you like in Hanikens then i wouldn't go anywhere else. There's just too many cowboys out there. There's a guy in Dublin called Voltaire Diamonds and he is brilliant and that's who we would have gone to if we didn't find my ring in NY.

Make sure you contact your bank and let them know you'll be spending a large amount on your card. As far as I know we got a little better price by paying cash for some of it because of tax or something but I'll check that for you also if you'd like. I hope this is of some help

D3PO

Paul whilst your post contains some reasonable points about diamonds the fact s it gets lost in a lot of incoherant poorly thought out drivel.

Clearly there are ethitical question marks regarding the diamond industry, but for the sake of balance it should be noted that not all diamonds or all the diamond industry have links to dictatorships or regiemes against humanity.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

buying diamonds that have practically no inherent value on the open market.

People buying diamond engagement rings are not buying them as a commodity to resell so this quite frankly is a pointless comment. People are buying them as a token of ones love for each other. Now before you get into this being a marketing ploy by the diamond industry bla bla bla the fact is value can be quantified in more than just monetary terms. Sentimental value to most people has much if not more value than monetary ones.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

There are many stones which are, in my opinion, much more beutiful than diamonds and which will hold their value much better. Princess Diana and recently Kate Middleton were both given SAPPHIRE engagement rings. Would she consider one of those? Sapphires and other highly precious stones are actually much more rare than diamonds and are genuinely valuable - their value is not based upon the supply being artificially constrained by a single cartel.

Again pointless comment. Nobody buys an engagement ring as a commodity purchase.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

The smiling "Hi, how are you!" people who you buy these diamonds from in New York see you as one thing only - a sucker. You are transferring to them a large part of your personal wealth in return for a stone that is not rare and is not valuable. They have paid a pittance for it and they are literally laughing at you when you walk out the door. The only reason that diamonds are expensive is because they control a cartel which has artificially restricted the supply of diamonds to the open market.

This is a fairly over the top view that you in no way can back up. It shows a certian about of bias in your whole post infact which is clearly very heavily politically motivated. As for restricting the supply of diamonds I dont think anybody would argue that is the case. So what...

Newsflash gas, oil and pretty much the majority of valuable commodities are the same. Thats how it is. Perhaps next you should start a crusade to stop purchasing petrol or home heating oil. Go on stick it ti OPEC :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Add into that the fact that the mining and processing of these stones widely involves child labor and is used to fund brutal dictatorships and conflicts in Africa before the finances filter to Israel where they are used to build illegal "settlements" on stolen land, and you have one hell of a way to pledge your love to your betrothed.

Guess what you can get conflict free diamonds. Again your political bias is shining through. My politics would be as a supporter of Palestine but come on now your embellishing the real situation to copperfasten your views.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Are you actually going to give these people $5,000? As a fellow Irish person I am asking you to SERIOUSLY reconsider this. I can tell you as a fact that when you walk in the door to a store on 47th street and the dealer comes out from behind the counter to shake hands and make friendly with you all he is saying to himself is "Here comes another sucker who is willing to p!ss away seveal months of his salary on a gemstone that I paid a pittance for".

Firslty its the OP's money he can do whatever the hell he likes with it. You have a serious cheek to come on here and try and tell somebody what they should or should not do with their hard earned case. Secondly as I said earlier you cant read somebodies mind so unless you can back up your views of diamond dealers which I dont think you can then its nothing more than your perception of them.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Don't believe me? Here's something you can try while you are in New York. Go to a diamond dealer and tell him you are interested in a diamond but would like to show it to your jeweller to get a quote for a ring setting. He will allow you to take the diamond from his store if you pay for it in full and give you a written receipt allowing you to return it for a full refund if you bring it back within a couple of days. Now go to any diamond dealer or jeweller you want and ask him how much he will give you for this brand new, never used diamond. You will find that none of them will give you even one third of what you paid for it.

What exactly is your point. Sell Gold to one of those crazy cash for gold outlets and see how much they would give you for an Oz of gold versus what its worth on the market. Its called making profit its the thing companies do in a comercialised society.

Economics 101 Paul. I do hope you never consider starting your own business :rolleyes:

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

That is because they can get them for a pittance on the wholesale market - and then sell them to suckers like you for vastly inflated prices. I'm sure you don't like being categorized as a sucker but I can assure you that this is what they think you are.

Again you cant read somebodies mind stop with all the sucker waffle because thats what it is :rolleyes: You need to understand the concept of buying something wholesale. Food, Clothes, Commodies it doesnt matter all are sold at insane margins again its called economices of a free market. Its not something unique to diamonds and because your paying for something plus margin doesnt make you a sucker it makes you a consumer.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Diamonds are a horrible racket. I don't know what your politics are but the proceeds from the sale of many diamonds end up funding horrible dictatorships in Africa, disgusting working conditions for the laborers there and in Asia, including child laborers in many cases. Ultimately the money often flows back to the state of Israel where the government and religious extremist Jews use it to fund the creation of illegal "settlements" built on stolen Palistinian land.

Diamond dealers in New York are not nice people. The trade in New York is completely dominated by Hassidic and Orthodox Jews. These guys treat women like chattel (notice how many women are working in the stores in the diamond district?). In Israel they literally do not allow women to sit in the same part of the bus as men do, but you're going to go to them and give them $5,000 of your hard-earned cash to buy a symbol of your love for you future wife?

Seriously if you want to talk about your dislike to Isreal go off to the politics forum. Using diamonds to suit your political agenda doesnt fit this forum and I suggest I speak for the majority on here. We dont want to hear it (again Im not a fan of Isreal but Im not a fan of your ranting on here either)

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

If she really wants the something that looks like diamond ask her if she would consider a synthetic Zirconium stone. These are chemically and visually exactly the same as diamond - nobody other than a skilled dealer using a loupe could ever tell the difference. They cost about 1/10th of what a 'natural' diamond does.

Earlier you talk about diamonds having no inherent value then you suggest buing a synthetic diamond. Do you really need me to point out the hypocricy of such a statement :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

do not follow the disgusting maxim that some diamond dealers who will tell you that when buying an engagement ring you should spend "several month's salary".

Anyone who gives that much of their hard-earned cash to a diamond dealer truly does deserve the moniker of sucker. Don't be one.

I have never ever heard of somebody shopping for a diamond ring being told in the stop they should spend several months salary. Yes this myth exists but to insinuate this is something said during the sales process is rubbish

as for calling somebody a sucker for buying a diamond. I take issue to that, besides which do you really think anybody would be willing to listen to the few pertinent points you have in your post when your most likely insulting them.

Basically you have a few valid points lost in ramblings and a very clear political hatred for Isreal. The majority of your comments have no realism associated to them.

One final thought to leave you with. If everybody the world over boycotted diamonds it would make no difference. Another commodity would ultimately take its place.

In terms of the bad part of the diamond industry this doesnt absolve it far from it and thats not what Im saying, but ideology and realism need to both be understood.

Trying to insinuate that boycotting diamonds will in some way change or prevent humanitarian suffering is bullsh*t. I wish it was otherwise but lets not be nieve

careca11

Du141197 wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Planning on getting down on 1 Knee at the weekend in NYC and heading to the diamond district. Ive heard about Hannikens and Salvatores.
Few Qs.

1. How much can you expect to get off the price when you bargain? My budget is about $5k.
2. Should i bring some cash and credit card?
3. What should i look out for?

Any other tips welcome... im useless at this kinda stuff!

I got my wife an Eternity Ring in one of the Jeweller's in the diamond District in NYC 2 years ago $1100 , its an absolute stunning ring , valued here at € 6,500 .
I don't have the name of thw shop to hand .....................will get it tonight pm you with it , all the know is the shop was fantastic and very very friendly service indeed

Theboinkmaster

Du141197 wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Planning on getting down on 1 Knee at the weekend in NYC and heading to the diamond district. Ive heard about Hannikens and Salvatores.
Few Qs.

1. How much can you expect to get off the price when you bargain? My budget is about $5k.
2. Should i bring some cash and credit card?
3. What should i look out for?

Any other tips welcome... im useless at this kinda stuff!

I bought a ring in Hannikens last year and can't recommend them enough. However id spent 2 months before researching the 4Cs etc so had a good knowledge before going in.

They were fantastic and we got an amazing ring, which if bought in Dublin would cost at least 30% more.

Do your reseach on 4Cs before going - IMO only look at stones which are GIA certified as "excellent" cut, as these will sparkle the most.

Du141197

Thanks Guys for the tips. Im going to do some research on the 4 C's. If someone could post the website to check the diamond numbers etc that would be great.
Can anyone give me an idea what wriggle room have the sellers to haggle with compared to asking price?

Paul_Hacket

D3PO - with all due respect, the difference between you and me is that I actually know what I'm talking about, and from the multitude of errors in your post you clearly do not. I have bought and sold commodities in the past, including gemstones and gold (your comments about gold are hilllariously wrong by the way).

People buying diamond engagement rings are not buying them as a commodity to resell so this quite frankly is a pointless comment.

I guess you didn't read my post. I indicated in it in several places that there are a multitude of ways to "express your love" and buy a romantic token for your partner, etc. There are other forms of gemstone and jewelry you can buy to start with. Kate Middleton and Princess Diana received sapphire rings, not diamond ones, since the royals do not subscribe to the "tradition" of buying diamonds that was invented by De Beers advertising company in the 1940s.

The problem with diamonds is that De Beers has created a cartel to keep world supply artificially low and thus require people to spend several thousand dollars to buy what women are told is an acceptably sized engagement ring, when the inherent worth of the stone is only a fraction of that. If you think that's a good situation for the buyer to be in, then fine. I think that the fact that people are being brainwashed into transferring their wealth to a cartel is a sad inditement of the power of marketing and peer pressure.

You may say that nobody buys an engagment ring as a "commodity purchase" but I ask you this - in an era when most Irish people are frankly not exactly rolling in cash why are you encouraging them to spend a large amount of their wealth on something that is only actually worth a fraction of what they are paying for it?

Would you not agree that it makes more sense to buy a cubic zirconia stone or a sapphire (as Kate Middletone and Lady Diana received) than a diamond which is incredibly overpriced? Why did you make such a big effor to rubbish my post when all my post did was alert people to the fact that -

(A) there are lots of better alternatives to 'natural' diamonds

(B) that every diamond purchase is a total rip off (unless you can negotiate them down to about 1/3 of their asking price)

(C) that the people these diamonds are being bought from are not the type that most of us would like to consort with. They treat women like dirt - even here in New York. And if you think I'm being antisemitic or something you should know that 90% of mainsteam Jews here in New York are totally embarassed by the ultra-Orthodox community's medieval attitudes to women. You also might want to read the wikipedia biography of Lev Leviev below, he is the richest diamond trader in the world, when you buy a diamond in New York you are putting money directly in his pocket. Is this someone you want to support?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Leviev

Newsflash gas, oil and pretty much the majority of valuable commodities are the same.

The only commodity in the world that is somewhat controlled by a cartel is oil - and even in the case of oil much of the supply is outside the cartel so they have limited control. De Beers and their associates in the cartel totally monoplize the supply of diamonds. Anyone who buys a diamond from outside the cartel is never allowed to buy from De Beers again, and if you have a store and buy from outside the cartel none of De Beers suppliers will ever sell to you again.

The difference between oil and diamonds is that we don't have a choice about using oil, however we DO have a choice about buying 'natural' diamond engagement rings. People like you D3PO are doing De Beers bidding for them by doing your level best to keep the idea alive that a diamond is the only way to go for an engagement ring - when in fact this idea was created by an advertising company in the 1940s.

Earlier you talk about diamonds having no inherent value then you suggest buing a synthetic diamond. Do you really need me to point out the hypocricy of such a statement

Yeah, please do explain the "inherent hypcoricy" of that statement. First of all I suggested buying an alternate stone such as a sapphire first, but if she really wants the "traditional" diamond look for her ring I suggested buying a zirconia. Since you can buy a zirconia for about 1/10th the cost of a traditional diamond (you can get a beutifully cut 1 carat stone which is visually indistinguishable from a 'natural' diamond for about two hundred euros), so please, yes, explain to me why I was being hypocritical. Well?

I have never ever heard of somebody shopping for a diamond ring being told in the stop they should spend several months salary. Yes this myth exists but to insinuate this is something said during the sales process is rubbish

I never said that it is said as part of the sales process (though it would not surprise me if it was sometimes), it is written on many of the websites set up by people involved in the diamond trade as being a "rough guide" to how much you should spend and is "endorsed" by all of the major diamond trade organizations such as American Gem Society, Diamond Council of America, Jewelers or America, The Independent Jewelers Organization.

Here is a quote from one diamond retail website. Listen to this sickening drivel - so typical of the crap used to guilt people into spending a fortune on a diamond ring:

Today, two months' salary is generally considered a good guideline to follow. Now, that may seem like a lot, but it really isn't when you think about it. The cost of everything has gone up. And you can't expect to pay the
same price for your diamond as your parents did. Fortunately, your
Diamond Engagement Ring does have great value and, like love, can grow
more precious with time.

SOURCE: http://www.marks-jewelers.com/how-perfect-engagemen.html

And the same drivel can be found on jewelry sites all over the web.

Food, Clothes, Commodies it doesnt matter all are sold at insane margins again its called economices of a free market.

I guess you missed the point about diamonds being sold exclusively by one cartel? There is a difference between "margins" (which is basically the fee that wholesalers and retailers charge for their services) and creating artificial scarcity - which is what exists in the diamond market. I wasn't aware that there was an international food cartel constraining and controlling the world's supply of food, or clothes. You should definitely let us know more about that C39O - sounds like you know about things that nobody else is aware of.

What exactly is your point. Sell Gold to one of those crazy cash for gold outlets and see how much they would give you for an Oz of gold versus what its worth on the market. Its called making profit its the thing companies do in a comercialised society.

Again, the difference between you and me is that I know a little something of what I'm talking about and you know nothing. I have actually done just what you describe more than once. If you go to chinatown in New York or in Bangkok or any major city you will notice many gold stores. Go into one and buy a gold chain. They will weigh it and charge you for it based on weight and the day's spot gold price. Now take the chain to the store accross the street, and ask them how much they will give you for it. You might have to haggle, but they will be more than happy to pay you 95% of what you paid. Again, I have actually done this - gold is actually sold on an open market where everyone can buy and sell and thus the price is not "fixed" whereas diamonds are not. Read this article which has multiple examples of just how valueless diamonds actually are:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/4575/

Again you cant read somebodies mind stop with all the sucker waffle because thats what it is.

Unlike you I actually know people in the diamond trade. The people I know are aware that I understand how the market works and they have been very frank with me about their opinions of people who fall for the marketing bullsh!t and pay several months of their sallaries to enrich people like Lev Leviev. I have literally heard words such as "rube", "sucker" and "schmuck" used to describe people who go into a store and pay a large fraction of their annual earnings to walk out with a virtually valueless stone.

Again, yeah - I'm aware diamonds aren't being bought to be resold - but paying so much for something that is worth so little but is priced high because of a cartel is just inherently stupid in my book and the purpose of my post was to bring to people's attention what is going on.

Seriously if you want to talk about your dislike to Isreal go off to the politics forum. Using diamonds to suit your political agenda doesnt fit this forum and I suggest I speak for the majority on here.

This isn't a "political" point, politics has nothing to do with it - it's an ethical point. It is a FACT under all international law that the creation of settlements on Palestinian land is illegal. Or perhaps you agree with colonialism and the theft of a people's land, do you D3PO? That's quite a strange position for an Irish person to take if you are Irish, given our history. Did you read the link about Lev Leviev that I posted above - the richest man in Israel? His wealth comes from the diamond trade, he has built literally thousands of homes on stolen Palistinian land using profits from the diamond trade. According to his version of radical Judaism women are inherently unclean and should not be allowed to sit on the same part of the bus with men. Here's an excerpt from his wikipedia entry:

Leviev is involved in the construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Leviev’s Danya Cebus company, a subsidiary of Africa-Israel, subcontracted the construction of Mattityahu East to Shaya Boymelgreen. Danya Cebus is also building part of Har Homa and Maale Adumim.[16] In 1999, Leviev's company Danya Cebus announced plans to build new homes in the settlement of Ariel.[17] Through another subsidiary, LIDAR, Leviev appears to be the sole realtor-developer of the settlement of Zufim.[18]

Leviev's devotion to settlement construction have drawn protest from outside the Old Bond Street store in his London home, to the Leviev-owned jewelry store in New York City, and has impelled Oxfam to make it clear that Leviev has not donated to the charity.[19][20] UNICEF has also advised Leviev that they will not partner with or accept any contributions from him due to the controversy.

Sorry D3PO but when I spend my cash I don't like it to be spent on creating misery for other people. Were you also against the boycotting of South Africa in the 1980s? Why are you against me letting people know where their money is going when they buy a diamond in the diamond district in New York?

as for calling somebody a sucker for buying a diamond. I take issue to that

I'm not insulting anybody, the purpose of my post was to bring to people's attention just how much of a rip-off buying a diamond is. Yeah my words might be harsh, but I used the word sucker in reference to the opnions of the diamond traders of their customers. People are entitled to spend their money as they please, and if they are happy with their purchases good for them. But I remember a couple of years ago that people who tried to war that home prices were totally over-priced and a terrible investment were also pilloried and told to basically shut up.

I think Irish people are wonderful and wouldn't swap my roots for any other country in the world, I mean that, but I do think we have a weakness for being suckered into paying exhorbitant prices for many things by canny marketers and salespeople. I see it in the price of restaurant meals when I go home (how can it be cheaper to eat a meal in Manhattan with the most expensive rents in the world, than a town in the midlands?), it was obvoius in the whole housing bubble thing, and it's pretty obvious to me too in the way that Irish people who can barely afford it spend a fortune on engagement rings. It has everything to do with "status" and being seen to be able to spend money and very little to do with love, commitment, or anything of REAL value to a relationship. There is a guy on another thread on here today asking if people think spending E4,500 on a ring is enough. When I read that I just want to throw up. Unless the guy is a millionaire he is just p!ssing away a huge slice of his income.

Yeah, I know my post is long but this is a complex issue and I really don't think many people on these threads know what is going on when they buy diamonds. I don't want to offend anybody and if you've bought a diamond and are happy with it I say good for you. Truly.

On the other hand for those who are considering a purchase I posted the above in order to give them an alternative viewpoint. Couples are subject to a relentless marketing blitz in order to pressure them into spending a fortune on stones that have very little inherent value and which also fund some very unpleasant activities in places like Angola, India and Israel.

D3PO

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Again, the difference between you and me is that I know a little something of what I'm talking about and you know nothing. I have actually done just what you describe more than once. If you go to chinatown in New York or in Bangkok or any major city you will notice many gold stores. Go into one and buy a gold chain. They will weigh it and charge you for it based on weight and the day's spot gold price. Now take the chain to the store accross the street, and ask them how much they will give you for it. You might have to haggle, but they will be more than happy to pay you 95% of what you paid. a.

this is the biggest pile of turd ive ever read. so much so i couldn't be arsed replying to the rest of the crap you write.

you are lying through your teeth .

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paul_Hacket

D3PO wrote: »

this is the biggest pile of turd ive ever read. so much so i couldn't be arsed replying to the rest of the crap you write.

you are lying through your teeth .

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

No pal, you're the liar, and have been exposed as such. Your a good example of an ignorant loudmouth who comes onto the interwebs to bloviate about a topic that you know nothing about and then when your mistakes are pointed out you descend to name calling and angry insults. How totally juvenile.

Anybody who trades gold knows that even jewelry level gold sold in chinatowns can be bought and sold for a few percentage points off the spot price. I have lived in New York and Bangkok, two of the leading gold trading centers on the planet where thousands of ordinary people do this every day. Asian people buy and sell gold in jewelry stores as a form of saving and speculation - that's why you will see so many jewelry stores in Chinatowns around the world selling simple gold chains, medallions, bracelets, etc. The store only takes a cut of around 2 - 5% per transaction.

You didn't know that and when I pointed out your mistake you came back with angry drivel. A person of character would step up and admit he made a mistake but you aren't up to that. You are beyond pathetic and have been shown as such.

I'll take the fact that you didn't respond to any of the other points in my rebuttal of your post as nothing but a sign of your inability to either admit that you were wrong in your original post or to argue against them in any way.

iguana

Less of the personal insults, please. Any more will result in an automatic 2 week ban.

monkey tree

I would just really like to stick my neck out here and say I am totally in awe of people like Paul_Hacket. Most people in their lifetimes when offered the truth in plain sight choose the easy path of denial and remain shrouded in illusion. Which costs much more than money.

I'm not here looking for responses but in support of the intelligence and interest it takes people like Paul_Hacket in order to educate the poor few like myself who appreciate greatly these insights. :cool:

iguana

OK, for now I'm going to let the discussion over the ethical concerns about diamond buying continue as it does tie into the question in the title. Ie, the origin of the diamonds in the district is a valid topic. This also means it's fine to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian situation with regard to the diamond industry - and only the diamond industry. As I know that there are plenty of people who may read this thread for whom this is a concern when buying their engagement ring, so it's good for them to see a reasoned discussion.

But this is not the place to discuss people's religious beliefs so I don't want to see any more reference to Jews, Muslims, etc. Any more mention of religious beliefs/heritage or round about ways to refer those beliefs/ that heritage will result in a two month ban and your post will be deleted.

iguana

Right, Mod hat off.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

If she really wants the something that looks like diamond ask her if she would consider a synthetic Zirconium stone. These are chemically and visually exactly the same as diamond - nobody other than a skilled dealer using a loupe could ever tell the difference. They cost about 1/10th of what a 'natural' diamond does.

You've gotten two very different things muddled up into one. Cubic zirconia is not at all chemically the same as a diamond, they both have very different compositions. And there are a number of differences between them and diamonds. There is a such thing as synthetically produced diamonds, which are genuine diamonds made by applying heat and pressure to carbon in order to speed up the diamond creation process. These are actual diamonds and are indistinguishable from naturally occurring diamonds as they are the same chemical product. The only difference is that flawless naturally occurring diamonds actually are quite rare, where as lab created ones are rarely flawed.

Paul_Hacket

iguana wrote: »

Right, Mod hat off.



You've gotten two very different things muddled up into one. Cubic zirconia is not at all chemically the same as a diamond, they both have very different compositions. And there are a number of differences between them and diamonds. There is a such thing as synthetically produced diamonds, which are genuine diamonds made by applying heat and pressure to carbon in order to speed up the diamond creation process. These are actual diamonds and are indistinguishable from naturally occurring diamonds as they are the same chemical product. The only difference is that flawless naturally occurring diamonds actually are quite rare, where as lab created ones are rarely flawed.

It's true that CZs are chemically different, I shouldn't have written that - don't know what I was thinking - but the fact is that in terms of their appearance they are visually indistinguishable from natural diamonds without using a microscope or high powered loupe. They are also virtually as hard as real diamonds and are extremely durable. No lay person would ever be able to tell the difference.

Toots

Paul Hackett banned for two months for arguing with a moderator on thread and continuing to discuss religion despite a very clear instruction not to. Offending posts deleted.

travellingbid

I feel sorry for the poor guy who started this thread.....hope he's not having second thoughts. Please come back and tell us how you got on................I'm a sucker for a happy ending:)

chogxox

Hi! Sorry didn't get back to you sooner. Here's one of the websites we looked at before going into Hanikens and I think it's the one we checked the diamond cert number and approx value http://ie.bluenile.co.uk/diamond-search?track=head, I'll double check for you later if there were any others too

belllee

My sister bought hers ther in 2004 paid approx. 7000 for a 1.52 ct 3 stone emerald with the two side stones being .80c and all GvS2.
I myself have been back to the same shop twice and plan another trip next March for my own engagment ring. My friend is heading to this shop in my recommendation this coming Monday and in advance we 'shopped' around her at home for the type of ring, carot, colour clarity etc. and Jesus the quality just isnt here. we were told that 1 Ct. emerald is really top of the line here in Ireland. so in short GO GO GO and if you want the name of that shop im preaching about i can pm you.