Finding the date on which a family relocated

P. Breathnach

During a long married life, my grandparents lived at three different addresses. I suspect that their first home was rented, think that they owned the second one, and know that they owned the third.

Is there any reasonably convenient way for me to find out what dates they took ownership of houses?

Most convenient would be sitting here at my keyboard, and being prepared to pay a modest fee if that is necessary. If that's not an option, is the best route to visit the valuation office and conduct a search on the addresses in which I am interested?

Wyldwood

It depends where they lived. For large urban areas such as Dublin or Cork the Historical Directories such as Guys are very useful for tracking people. If they were landed gentry or the like they should feature in the directories also (but I'd guess they weren't as they moved around so much).
Otherwise I think you'll have to visit the Valuations Office.

P. Breathnach

We're talking about family homes in Dublin. I don't have street directories on my bookshelves!

A trip to the Valuation Office is on my to-do list, for other reasons. Guess I'll add another hour to the projected length of my visit.

shanew

I have a collection of Thom's (1848 to 1975... with gaps) - if you want to post the details I'll have a look

(note directories will show the occupier ... not necessarily the owner)


Shane

P. Breathnach

Thanks, Shane. It's occupation of houses that interests me; there are no ongoing family disputes about inheritance.

My grandfather was John Walsh.

He was at 2 Darley Street, Harold's Cross, in 1909, and 30 Victoria Avenue, Donnybrook, on census night 1911. I don't think consulting directories would allow get a fix much more precise than that, given the time lags involved in preparing them.

I know (family memories: my father's account of his childhood) that the family lived there for a number of years. By 1939 they were living at 23 Brighton Square, Rathgar. My guess is that they moved about 1930, but I'd give that a margin of error of +/-6.

shanew

1914

30 Victoria Ave, Donnybrook, John Walsh G.P.O
Darley Street is listed as Artisan Dwellings Co. - 33 houses
no details of occupants are given

1927

30 Victoria Ave, Donnybrook, John Walsh asst. insp. G.P.O

23 Brighton Sq, Rathgar, Arthur Furney Darling

might be of interest - another GPO person on the same road as your John, and another Walsh nearby... :

26 Victoria Ave, Donnybrook, John Ayers G.P.O
28 Mrs. Walsh

I'll check further directories for him later on..



Shane

shanew

1938

30 Victoria Ave, Donnybrook, John F. Moran

23 Brighton Square, Rathfgar, John Walsh

Shane

P. Breathnach

Thanks Shane. That's sharpening the focus a bit.

I didn't know that Darley Street was DAD property. It's very close to Harold's Cross Cottages, which I did know were DAD houses. The Darley Street houses are somewhat superior to the cottages. Would you mind checking if nearby Armstrong Street was also a DAD development? In the 1890s my grandfather lived in Harold's Cross Cottages with his parents. When they died, he and his siblings moved to Armstrong Street. When he married, he moved to Darley Street, while his siblings remained in Armstrong Street.

I am also getting a trace of his career progress: postman in 1901 and 1911; assistant inspector in 1927.

shanew

from Thom's 1914

Armstrong Street
off Harold's cross road
26 houses, valuation 25 @ 6l 10s and 1 at 9l

Artisan Dwellings Co.'s Buildings
Harold's Cross, Off Armstrong Street
120 cottages - each 4l 10s / 5l 10s

for comparison the houses at Darley Street are valued at 7l (£7)

So I'd say Armstrong Street would be a step up the property ladder from the cottages, and Darley a slight step up from Armstrong St.

Armstrong Street and the cottages are listed in 1894, but Darley Street is not - so it must have been built between 1894 and 1901.


Shane

P. Breathnach

Interesting.

The buildings known today as Harold's Cross Cottages were quite small, and were quasi-social housing, privately financed but with the motive of providing suitable accommodation for workers who were considered a necessary part of Dublin's fabric rather than returning a profit to investors. It seems my great-grandfather was socially necessary on the basis of driving a bread-car.

I hadn't expected to find DAD providing superior (albeit not palatial) houses.

To my eye, the Armstrong Street houses look superior to those on Darley Street, but the formula for determining rateable valuations was a bit more complex than looking at the front of the building and making a call.

The terms of DAD lettings favoured the tenants, especially in that rents were not increased over time and it was impossible to evict tenants who paid their rent. Further, a tenant's interest was effectively transferable (the incoming tenant would simply pay "key money" to the outgoing one). You had people living in them in the 1960s paying rent at a level that was set in the 1880s.