Student Grant Cut challenged by USI in Courts

theboss80

Today the Union of Students in Ireland were granted leave to a judicial review of the budget cuts in the Grant for non adjacent rates.

Hopefully the decision will be overturned and help students who will be forced to drop out if unable to afford to attend due to the cut.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0718/education.html

Superwhy

theboss80 wrote: »

Today the Union of Students in Ireland were granted leave to a judicial review of the budget cuts in the Grant for non adjacent rates.

Hopefully the decision will be overturned and help students who will be forced to drop out if unable to afford to attend due to the cut.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0718/education.html

I was just about to post this! I'm delighted, but its not going to court until October which might be a bit late for our grants this year.

theboss80

Naw id say if overturned then there will be a massive backpayment in decembers grant payment:D:D:D:D

Annasopra

Its 3 students supported by USI - not directly USI

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0719/1224300948030.html

theboss80

Technically they are members of the USI if they are students so it is by the USI and I assume it is being funded by the USI

Jammyc

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but can anybody see much coming from this?

Annasopra

theboss80 wrote: »

Technically they are members of the USI if they are students so it is by the USI and I assume it is being funded by the USI

No technically speaking the case is being taken by 3 individual students not by USI. USI are supporting the case not taking the case. Also not all students are members of USI. DCU for example isn't affiliated.

Bobby42

I got the impression that it was the USI taking the case since they said this on Facebook:
"The High Court has granted the USI leave to challenge a reform of student grants, which will see some students face cuts of over 60 per cent in their grants this year."

and linked to this:

http://usi.ie/press-archives/104-2011/1666-students-launch-high-court-challenge-against-savage-cuts-to-grants.html

which says "The High Court has granted the Union of Students in Ireland (USI), the national union for Higher & Further Education students, leave to challenge a reform of student grants"

Superwhy

Jammyc wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but can anybody see much coming from this?

No I don't. But then remember when the older people protested against the medical card reforms they got it changed.

I think IF this was to work then there would have to be more people protesting and making more noise about it. Maybe?

Annasopra

Superwhy wrote: »

No I don't. But then remember when the older people protested against the medical card reforms they got it changed.

I think IF this was to work then there would have to be more people protesting and making more noise about it. Maybe?

how would protesting make a difference to.a court case?

p28559

Jammyc wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but can anybody see much coming from this?

yep .

everyone else in the country who had a reasonable expectation of something not changing will sue. for example people who thought the value of shares wouldnt go down, or the price of houses was always going to be higher than the one you paid, or a banker who has a reasonable expectation of a bonus, the person on social welfare who liked the annual FF increase in the rates, the public servants who liked the annual FF increase in pay.. .the list is endless....everyone agrees with the need to cut expenditure so long as they are not affected.



i would also think that this case will run and run. both parties could appeal what ever decision is made , the taxpayer will pick up the bill and best case a country that is already struggling spends more money ................
please god the judge throws it out...............

Cavehill Red

Are they just challenging the cut in payment rates or all the changes?

Superwhy

mango salsa wrote: »

how would protesting make a difference to.a court case?

I don't know I was just thinking out loud I guess

a1000pigeons

I think these cuts are ridiculous. We're all aware reductions need to be made but 60% cuts are extreme, especially to those midway through their studies. I've two years completed and feel that those receiving grants should have their grants honoured to the end of their chosen course. I would be certainly be willing to accept a reasonable cut but 'moving the goalposts' like this is unreasonable especially to people on low incomes and I don't know of any politicians or the like taking a 60% hit!!!

Jammyc

IMO it was the sneakiest cut in there.

"Alright students, we'll only cut the maintenance grant by 4%, that sounds reasonable doesnt it?.....oh and you now have to be 45km to get non-adjacent"

Also funny to note that a reason for it being changed to 45km was because of better and cheaper transport, while one week after it was announced Dublin Bus and Irish Rail announced rises in their fares.

Personally, my grant is cut by 67% which is shite.

hokeypokey

I'm lucky I'm far enough away.

If I had have been too near I would be looking for a college transfer right now...

B1977

p28559 wrote: »

yep .

everyone else in the country who had a reasonable expectation of something not changing will sue. for example people who thought the value of shares wouldnt go down, or the price of houses was always going to be higher than the one you paid, or a banker who has a reasonable expectation of a bonus, the person on social welfare who liked the annual FF increase in the rates, the public servants who liked the annual FF increase in pay.. .the list is endless....everyone agrees with the need to cut expenditure so long as they are not affected.



i would also think that this case will run and run. both parties could appeal what ever decision is made , the taxpayer will pick up the bill and best case a country that is already struggling spends more money ................
please god the judge throws it out...............

buying shares is completely different to getting a grant.
getting a source of income cut by 60% is a different story

theboss80

Well got my letter today, been changed to adjacent grant even though my house is 45.5 kms from the school. The town I live on the edge of is not. €6100 last year down to €2445 this year. 60% cut.

Annasopra

theboss80 wrote: »

Well got my letter today, been changed to adjacent grant even though my house is 45.5 kms from the school. The town I live on the edge of is not. €6100 last year down to €2445 this year. 60% cut.

that's easily appealable

20 Times 20 Times

what Qualifies someone for that special rate of €6100 ???


thanks

NoQuarter

The High Court might not reverse this as it could be a breach of the Separation of Powers. The Courts dont generaly interfere with the governments job and vice versa.

Fingers crossed though!

ontour

theboss80 wrote: »

Well got my letter today, been changed to adjacent grant even though my house is 45.5 kms from the school. The town I live on the edge of is not. €6100 last year down to €2445 this year. 60% cut.

No way did you give them the distance? how are the working out the distance? I woul be the exact same as that:(

theboss80

Ya I had to fill in a review form application and put 46kms on it and they didnt even ring to ask. I think its being taken from distance from your TOWN to the college

Superwhy

theboss80 wrote: »

Ya I had to fill in a review form application and put 46kms on it and they didnt even ring to ask. I think its being taken from distance from your TOWN to the college

I just got my letter on Friday as well - €2445. It sucks. But I rang last week just to see when I was getting the letter and she said 'Oh you live in X so you're not getting the non-adjacent rate anymore', so I think they do go by the town you live in not your particular house.

ontour

Superwhy wrote: »

I just got my letter on Friday as well - €2445. It sucks. But I rang last week just to see when I was getting the letter and she said 'Oh you live in X so you're not getting the non-adjacent rate anymore', so I think they do go by the town you live in not your particular house.

Anyone know how there calculating it? google maps?

p28559

B1977 wrote: »

buying shares is completely different to getting a grant.
getting a source of income cut by 60% is a different story

those people had a reasonable expectation that the price would go up....my point is that many people have reasonable expectations. its harsh on students but the government made many changes ..if every group went to court where would it end.............

Crunchy Friends

ontour wrote: »

Anyone know how there calculating it? google maps?

Heard from a City of Dublin VEC rep that they were advised by the minister to use Google Maps but have heard from students that some awarding authorities are using the likes of AA roadmaps which aren't as accurate

ontour

Crunchy Friends wrote: »

Heard from a City of Dublin VEC rep that they were advised by the minister to use Google Maps but have heard from students that some awarding authorities are using the likes of AA roadmaps which aren't as accurate

Jeez I hope they are using aa roadmaps, google maps is showing me 1.5 km short

Chris Hansen

I hope the cuts remain!


All you feckers and your grants!

Predalien

p28559 wrote: »

yep .

everyone else in the country who had a reasonable expectation of something not changing will sue. for example people who thought the value of shares wouldnt go down, or the price of houses was always going to be higher than the one you paid, or a banker who has a reasonable expectation of a bonus, the person on social welfare who liked the annual FF increase in the rates, the public servants who liked the annual FF increase in pay.. .the list is endless....everyone agrees with the need to cut expenditure so long as they are not affected.



i would also think that this case will run and run. both parties could appeal what ever decision is made , the taxpayer will pick up the bill and best case a country that is already struggling spends more money ................
please god the judge throws it out...............

Nonsense post, all the comparative situations you use are in no way legitimate expectations, whereas starting a course expecting to be receiving around €6,000 a year funding only to have this reduced by 60% is almost certainly a breach of an individuals legitimate expectations as it will render study for many of these people financially impossible. Not to mention the fact that many of the ones that do drop out will in any case end up on social welfare possibly costing the state more, one of the most ill thought out cuts ever.

On a separate note the case is probably being taken by students rather than the USI as the USI may not have locus standi to take the case.

ontour

Predalien wrote: »

Nonsense post, all the comparative situations you use are in no way legitimate expectations, whereas starting a course expecting to be receiving around €6,000 a year funding only to have this reduced by 60% is almost certainly a breach of an individuals legitimate expectations as it will render study for many of these people financially impossible. Not to mention the fact that many of the ones that do drop out will in any case end up on social welfare possibly costing the state more, one of the most ill thought out cuts ever.

On a separate note the case is probably being taken by students rather than the USI as the USI may not have locus standi to take the case.

How can you qualify for the €6000 rate? Theres only gonna be more cuts too, so people now going in should expect the worst :rolleyes::mad:

20 Times 20 Times

got letter got the full rate DELIGHTED !!!! Need every bit of it to get through my masters :-)

a1000pigeons

Just found out I've got the 60% cut also. Wondering if there's any point in appealing as according to google maps I'm over the 45 by my normal route and half a km under via another. Either way 60% of a cut is unfair, don't think anything in the country has been cut that much...

ontour

If I were you I would definitely appeal it. Does anyone know roughly how long it takes them to get back to you with the confirmation of whether you have or have not gotten the grant

Annasopra

ontour wrote: »

If I were you I would definitely appeal it. Does anyone know roughly how long it takes them to get back to you with the confirmation of whether you have or have not gotten the grant

each county council takes different times depending on their staff, the number of applicants etc

Snacker

Chris Hansen wrote: »

I hope the cuts remain!


All you feckers and your grants!

People get grants because they are entitled to them due to financial disadvantage.

If you're not getting the grant due to your income being above the cut off point its because you/your family can well afford to send their kids to college.

I HATE when people moan about others getting grants does my head in. Isn't it well for a household to have average weekly income of 850 euro plus...

aspire1

I've just been informed that mine has been cut by the 60%, 2.5km too near the college. I have no direct access to public transport and a walk to the nearest bus stop would take me well above the 45km limit - that's my fault for living "adjacent" to the college I guess.

ripo

p28559 wrote: »

yep .

everyone else in the country who had a reasonable expectation of something not changing will sue. for example people who thought the value of shares wouldnt go down, or the price of houses was always going to be higher than the one you paid, or a banker who has a reasonable expectation of a bonus, the person on social welfare who liked the annual FF increase in the rates, the public servants who liked the annual FF increase in pay.. .the list is endless....everyone agrees with the need to cut expenditure so long as they are not affected.



i would also think that this case will run and run. both parties could appeal what ever decision is made , the taxpayer will pick up the bill and best case a country that is already struggling spends more money ................
please god the judge throws it out...............

This case and the recent changes in student grants is much more than failing to predict the future, The true impact is the welfare of students, and equal access to college for the disadvantaged! headlines could read.... The Irish Government failed to secure equal access to education for the Disadvantaged '' and has placed its International Human Rights legitimacy to an all time low amid the United Nations and its members



Something just came to mind.... As you mentioned it. Its normal that we deal with the out come of the future in which we can not predict... is kinda what you suggested, and deal with it (the cut)


well.... the banks, did not JUST deal with it, and the tax payer is paying them out!

ripo

Snacker wrote: »

People get grants because they are entitled to them due to financial disadvantage.

If you're not getting the grant due to your income being above the cut off point its because you/your family can well afford to send their kids to college.

I HATE when people moan about others getting grants does my head in. Isn't it well for a household to have average weekly income of 850 euro plus...

The people who had a 60 percent cut to their grants are classified as disadvantaged, with low family income.

The govt cut these grants, not because they dont need the grant, because the govt wants to save money...



Save money to give to the bankers!!!!! do they deserve the money?

Crunchy Friends

Court Case is this morning. Best of luck to the students involved and the USI!

Crunchy Friends

The High Court has ruled against the USI's grant case, saying the "perilous" state of the country's finances outweigh's the students' case.