Identify Gas Leak Location

Shades799

Hi Folks,

This is gonna sound crazy but I think we've had a gas leak in our house for the past 3 years. We moved into the house in Oct '08 and noticed a smell in the house, we put it down to the previous owners dog because it didn't really smell like Gas and we became accustomed to the smell and didn't really notice it. Visitors would sometimes say they smelt it too but we (stupidly) didn't really do anything about it.

We have sinced rented out the house and the new tennants did the same thing, noticed the smell but then ignored it and stopped noticing it. I got the boiler serviced two times over the three years but he asked me if I could get someone around to explicitly check for that.

They came today and informed the tennant that the pressure test failed and we have a gas leak, he can't say where exactly but reckons it was probably caused by new flooring or something being put in.

Does this all add up? The length of time we've had the smell, no headaches or any illness etc...

We've had a new floor and tiles put in but the smell was there long before that?

And if it does add up, what can we do about fixing it. The gas has been turned off and I presume I will need to get a Bord Gais registered tradesman to sort it out but how will they identify the location of the leak?

Please don't tell me we need to start digging up tiles and flooring on someones hunch??

knighted_1

it's fairly easy to locate a gas leak -

a good gas man , rgi registered will locate it in a few minutes .
if it's underfloor the options you have would be to reroute the gaspipe instead of digging up -

was it bord gais networks that shut off the gas or an rgi ?

sullzz

Any rgi plumber with an analyser should be able to trace it with the sniffer on the analyser , but if possible it might be cheaper and less messy just to rerun a new one in

Shades799

It was a Bord Gais guy but apparently they won't do any investigation inside the house. He did say that the floor boards being put down could have put a nail through the pipe that was fine at the time but as people walked on it started to wiggle and created the crack.

I'm getting around a company first thing in the morning and I'll make sure they have a sniffer before I book them. The crowd I fit a number for are rgi certified. Please God it won't be too bad. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep ye updated.

knighted_1

dont worry if he doesnt have a sniffer he will find it with his u gauge or manometer - if its under the floor he cant find it with a sniffer anyway

JohnnieK

Dont talk to me about sniffers!! I was using mine with my analyser this evening at a leak on a boiler. fixed the leak and it still told me it was leaking. I got such a pain in my back side I re-made every conection on the boiler and gas valve and guess what it still told me it was leaking. Got my u-gauge on to the line and tested the whole thing including the boiler, guess what it held Just to make sure I left it on fro 15 mins and a can of leak detection fluid later all was well. The only reliable detectors are the ones Board Gais and Emerald gas use but they cost a couple of grand . What type of floors do you have are they suspended or hard wood on batons?

Shades799

JohnnieK wrote: »

What type of floors do you have are they suspended or hard wood on batons?

Laminate, click-together floors on a concrete ground in the hall and tiles in the kitchen so no need for nails you'd imagine. There was skirting put in as well so unless a nail went through the pipe when they were doing that but as I say, this smell was around long before we got the floors in! Unless walking around on the floors has caused a small crack to grow.

knighted_1

put your gas sniffer nearly in your mouth and blow - it will sound , they not reliable -

that smell in your house could be caused the gas seeping thru the concrete , usually smell it stronger when the air or ground is damp - copper might have been laid unprotected and broke down or whoever laid it used a compression fitting and it loosened - they the scenarios I have come across .

just for your own info , that your a landlord , when you getting your boiler serviced it's now required that you get the pipework done as well .called an annex E and there is a link to the law on the rgii website www.rgii.ie.

knighted_1

knighted_1 wrote: »

put your gas sniffer nearly in your mouth and blow - it will sound

,

JohnnieK wrote: »

Dont talk to me about sniffers!! I was using mine with my analyser this evening at a leak on a boiler. fixed the leak and it still told me it was leaking.?

That will be your halitosis then:D

knighted_1

very good , walked into that one

Shades799

Believe it or not I was living in a house with a gas leak for nearly 3 years!

The ratio wasn't strong enough to cause an explosion obviously but doing a pressure test now there's a full drop after 2 minutes which sounds like a lot to me.

The leak is under the floor so I have a RGI installer coming around this evening to price the job. I'm hoping to just get the piped switched and routed outside the house.

If anyone here is working in the business and is in the Newbridge, Kildare area feel free to tender an offer. I'll look favourably on a fellow boardie.

I'm paying for the tenants to have a visit to the GP just to make sure they're OK but since they've only been there since April I'd imagine they're OK. Especially since me and my girlfriend was living there for 3 years. Incredible luck when I think about it.

Micky Dolenz

A natural gas leak won't make you ill, unless it ignites.

Be warned that even a small amount of natural gas can explode. It's explosive limit is between 5% and 15%. Get the mix with air right and add a spark and it's a new roof on your gaff.

sniffers are ok, and can give you a general location but they are far too sensitive. I have always done a full soundness test on systems regardless if I was just servicing something. I think it's madness that it wasn't done as standard.

DGOBS

Knighted 1 annex E is not a requirement for boiler servicing (as crazy as it sounds!) annex c is the requirements for appliance servicing which only includes soundness of the 'appliance'

That said, as the owner/occupier reported the smell the technician onsite would now hold a responsibility to investigate (duty of care) not to shut and ask for someone else to do it, this guy should be reported to rgii for investigation on this matter (remember he is doing the same to other people)

Any responsible serviceman should always perform a systemwide soundness test (including let by) which would have indicated this issue on his first visit

As for Fga gas sniffers, the should be used as 'indicators' and are useful for tracing small controllable leaks, that can then be confirmed with LDF and repaired, soundness testing should the ALWAYS take place once the leak is repaired, sniffer would not be enough

They also respond to other gasses, including your breath, LDF, flue gas etc...
So again, should only be viewed as a somewhat useful tool, would be great if we all carried gasco seekers but at €2000 plus calibration I can't see that happening anytime soon, hard enough convince some people to carry manometers and analysers!!!!

knighted_1

hi dgobs

if you read my post I included the fact that the poster was a landlord - under this circumstance an annex e is required as with all rented accommodation - here's a link

http://www.rgii.ie/safety/renting-tenants-landlords.2710.html

it's on the rgi website and any rgi not doing an annex e on a rented property is neglecting thier duty of care -

in a domestic situation it's not a requirement but good practice

Stove Fan

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

A natural gas leak won't make you ill, unless it ignites.

Be warned that even a small amount of natural gas can explode. It's explosive limit is between 5% and 15%. Get the mix with air right and add a spark and it's a new roof on your gaff.

sniffers are ok, and can give you a general location but they are far too sensitive. I have always done a full soundness test on systems regardless if I was just servicing something. I think it's madness that it wasn't done as standard.

I can't believe you dont have to do a soundness test on the gas supply when you do a boiler service:mad:? Have I read this right:rolleyes: Its such a basic safety thing to do. It is mandatory in the UK. I have serviced gas fires that were supposed to of been serviced but had never been removed to clean the rear of debris. In 2 cases the flue was mostly blocked :eek:

I visited some relatives holiday home in the UK recently and as soon as I entered you could smell gas strongly:eek: I turned the gas off and informed my relative and the gas company came round and the leak was 4 mb in under 2 minutes. The leak was on the pipework going through the wall to a range cooker. The one side of the elbow hadn't been soldered:eek: He was getting it repaired soon after I left so he could use the cooker again. The gas company were great and spent 40 minutes looking for the leak for free:) The thing that shocked me is none of his relatives/visitors could smell it and the owner said it has always smelt like that for 3 years:rolleyes: (from when he bought the place)He thought it was a musty/damp smell being mostly closed up.

He was glad it got resolved:)

Stove Fan:)

DGOBS

OP as far as I can read was residing in the house when the boiler was serviced, so annex c would apply

Suppose the rgii serviceman could argue that he was requested to service the boiler not safety check the installation, IMHO annex c should be scrpped anyway, a full annex e is what should be performed on all visits (after all isn't safety our first priority)

That statement on the rgii website states a landlords responsibility not a technicians, these are the areas in gas safety that always need addressing (such as RGI introducing a technicians hand book, re: unsafe situations actions, at risk actions, ncs actions, and codes of practice) so this kind of issue stops falling through the cracks.

It's like, now all gas rgiis are required to work from is1949 along side is813 since June27th and the introduction of lpg under the standard, but how were all the rgiis informed???? They weren't!

Billy Bunting

The standards are full of contridiction and RGII know it and yet do nothing. Safety first and cover your arse, thats the only way to work these standards. :eek:

cynder

perfect timing for this thread, gas man just left after turning off my gas supply due to leak under the floor.


1mbar drop after 2 mins, smell of gas this morning (past if opff as i had a blocked nose) but came home this afternoon and strong smell this afternoon, neighbour phone bord gais and they came out in 30 mins. We have options dig up floor find the leak or rerun a new pipe outside the house to the gas boiler, pros we dont have a gas cooker or fire we only use the boiler for heating. Thankfully its summer but its bloody freeezing.

still the guy recons could cost 500 euro. i very much doubt the house insurance would cover it.


aarrggggg

Shades799

Just to clear up the confusion, I was only a resident at the time I got the gas boiler serviced and it was just a regular yearly service, I didn't ask him to do a full test to be fair but I'm not up with what he should or shouldn't have done.

As I am the landlord now I'll make sure to get the Annex E from the fella that's doing the work.

Grindelwald, it sounds like I'm basically in the same situation as you.

Just getting a couple of other lads to price the job now, I got a quote of €900incl VAT first for the job so I'm just pricing around now.

A 40ft long trench needs to be dug outside, which I'll do myself, and then the pipework routed from the Gas box at the side of the house to the boiler which is at the rear of the house in the kitchen.

DGOBS

Shades, I would get the plumber to dig a hole where the pipe enters the house, split the pipe and test house/outside separately as maybe the outerpipework is ok or the house (half the work then half the cost)

Shades799

DGOBS wrote: »

Shades, I would get the plumber to dig a hole where the pipe enters the house, split the pipe and test house/outside separately as maybe the outerpipework is ok or the house (half the work then half the cost)

The outside pipework is fine alright so that's the plan. Gonna cost me 500 quid.

cynder

i have a gas fella here now, cant find leak so its under the floor somewhere from the mains, plan will be to run steel pipe outside from mains to boiler, we wont go digging up the footpath.

his quote is 600 euro. based in co clare, your guy sounds a bit cheaper.

Shades799

grindelwald wrote: »

i have a gas fella here now, cant find leak so its under the floor somewhere from the mains, plan will be to run steel pipe outside from mains to boiler, we wont go digging up the footpath.

his quote is 600 euro. based in co clare, your guy sounds a bit cheaper.

Issue with insulation on the pipe?

Micky Dolenz

Shades799 wrote: »

Issue with insulation on the pipe?

It will be glavanised steel pipe.

JohnnieK

I do all of my external gas pipe work in galvanized gun barrel. Apart from being cheaper it is a hell of a lot stronger and can take the abuse. It also eliminates the need to protect the copper from mechanical shock. It might also scare away all the jokers that have come into the industry over the last 2 or 3 years.

DGOBS

Only problem I ever find is buried gb that hadn't been wrapped (usually coming from a bulk tak!) :eek: