Pensions.

The Left Hand Of God

Why bother you're hole?

Why? really?

You are playing a random game where you are told you get back: Less than you put in? The same as you put in: or rarely more than you put in!

How you going to know? Will you get a graph showing the history? No.

It is a scam. A method to make fake money to be the life blood of fake markets.


There is too much fake money in the system. 1's and 0's on computers.

Take the new "carbon credits" market.

A whole new investment market invented out of nothing.
the question? Do you really think your pension is worth anything?

Senna

I'm guessing you dont have a pension and have no idea how one works.

Kojak

Pensions are for old people.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

meh, get a job where work pays for you. And it's easy to get a job isn't it?

The Left Hand Of God

Senna wrote: »

I'm guessing you dont have a pension and have no idea how one works.

I do and I looked more deeply into it that you did. :rolleyes:

The Left Hand Of God

Senna wrote: »

I'm guessing you dont have a pension and have no idea how one works.

Kojak wrote: »

Pensions are for old people.

Willa Witty Foxhound wrote: »

meh, get a job where work pays for you. And it's easy to get a job isn't it?

My point made

You are the gift that just keeps giving...

Senna

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I do and I looked more deeply into it that you did. :rolleyes:

Did you? Did you really?

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Will you get a graph showing the history? No.

Seen you have a pension, you should know you get a quarterly statement telling you of your pension performance. But of course, you know that already.

Trhiggy83

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I do and I looked more deeply into it that you did. :rolleyes:

Did you really, a pension is the most tax efficient way of saving. ignorance is bliss... why exactly would it be a waste of time?

Manach

A pension, an always available fund of money for the government to "invest" from.

the groutch

they're a waste for Gardai anyway, as they all get shot two days before retirement

Needler

Pensions are things governments spend in a last ditch attempt to get out of a recession

or private pensions, a complete scam. All they give you in return is two letters a year saying "the value of your pension has gone down"

The Left Hand Of God

Senna wrote: »

Did you? Did you really?



Seen you have a pension, you should know you get a quarterly statement telling you of your pension performance. But of course, you know that already.

Are you told the truth?

By banks?

Trhiggy83

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Are you told the truth?

By banks?

Whats the truth in your eyes

Trhiggy83

Needler wrote: »

Pensions are things governments spend in a last ditch attempt to get out of a recession

or private pensions, a complete scam. All they give you in return is two letters a year saying "the value of your pension has gone down"

are you bein serious ?

Senna

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

Are you told the truth?

By banks?

Your ideas intrigue me, please tell me more.

galwayrush

Being self employed, it's hard enough to live for today, paying into a pension is impossible.

noxqs

The government doesn't have access to private pension funds.

Full stop.

My pension savings is currently invested in world market bond/stocks. I get a statement every month how much my portfolio is worth. It's managed by a public and regulated company.

The government would never be able to touch those assets. Tax the returns, sure. But actually grabbing the cash? Are you serious?

Not having a pension is a terrible mistake which you will regret.

And I can assure you - the returns on the world market will go up and down but in the decades before you retire it will certainly perform above inflation which is goal number one. Anything above that is just nice.

galwayrush

noxqs wrote: »

The government doesn't have access to private pension funds.

Full stop.

My pension savings is currently invested in world market bond/stocks. I get a statement every month how much my portfolio is worth. It's managed by a public and regulated company.

The government would never be able to touch those assets. Tax the returns, sure. But actually grabbing the cash? Are you serious?

Not having a pension is a terrible mistake which you will regret.

I , like many others simply can't afford one.

Daroxtar

Does anyone here under 40 really believe that they will get a pension when they get to 68?
Cop on.
A pension is a pyramid scheme that only works when you have a larger young population able to pay for a smaller old population.
We are the baby boom generation, but we're all having less kids than our parents. Do the math.

The J Stands for Jay

noxqs wrote: »

The government doesn't have access to private pension funds.

The government would never be able to touch those assets. Tax the returns, sure. But actually grabbing the cash? Are you serious?

Hmm, you know that letter from the pension company you haven't opened yet...

galwayrush

galwayrush wrote: »

Being self employed, it's hard enough to live for today, paying into a pension is impossible.

Give yourself a raise! :pac:

FGR

Although a Pension is the most tax efficient way to save I'm wondering, given the recent economy crash and pensions going through the floor is it not just worth opening a savings accounts and face the DIRT demon when it eventually comes knocking 30 years down the line?

At least you'll know where you stand on your initial savings minus interest.

starbelgrade

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Although a Pension is the most tax efficient way to save I'm wondering, given the recent economy crash and pensions going through the floor is it not just worth opening a savings accounts and face the DIRT demon when it eventually comes knocking 30 years down the line?

At least you'll know where you stand on your initial savings minus interest.

The better option is to find a wee nook somewhere in the house & wedge it full of cash, like everyone used to do years ago.

You always knew where you stood then & the taxman could go & fuck himself.

galwayrush

Mother in law had a private pension she was paying into for over 20 years, it was worth less than half what she paid into it by the time she needed it.
Company blames 9-11 etc for the loss. So, will something similar wipe out private pension investments in the future?

Daroxtar

galwayrush wrote: »

Mother in law had a private pension she was paying into for over 20 years, it was worth less than half what she paid into it by the time she needed it.
Company blames 9-11 etc for the loss. So, will something similar wipe out private pension investments in the future?

Yes

noxqs

According to the papers from my pension scheme I have the right to transfer it - and if the gov tries to touch it, I'll move it outside of their jurisdiction before they even finish that train of thought.

I also just looked up the EU legislation on the topic. It's not so easy for a government to pillage and loot pensions - so I doubt they'll try. At least the process will be long and very public before it happens. Which is warning enough for me.

Edit: You also have the right to manage your assets yourself. As you get closer to pension age, sell of the stocks and go bonds only. Significantly less risk and still respectable return. Stocks is great if you're decades off retiring.

Up de Barrs

The US stock market (the world's largest) has doubled since March 2009. Anyone who invested over that time would have done very well but heck its easier just to claim that its all a scam and not make any provision for your future financial security.

Needler

Up de Barrs wrote: »

The US stock market (the world's largest) has doubled since March 2009. Anyone who invested over that time would have done very well but heck its easier just to claim that its all a scam and not make any provision for your future financial security.

March 2009 was a time of terrible gloom and doom and people who invested before then lost big time.

If I bought a bunch of GSAT shares at the right time I would have made a fortune. Just like I would if I had filled in the right numbers on a slip of paper last week and handed the cashier 2e. Tis gambling, thats all

aligator_am

starbelgrade wrote: »

The better option is to find a wee nook somewhere in the house & wedge it full of cash, like everyone used to do years ago.

You always knew where you stood then & the taxman could go & fuck himself.

And what use will all those pieces of paper be when the Euro and Dollar collapse? Well at least you'll have something to wipe your arse with

earlyevening

noxqs wrote: »

According to the papers from my pension scheme I have the right to transfer it - and if the gov tries to touch it, I'll move it outside of their jurisdiction before they even finish that train of thought.

I also just looked up the EU legislation on the topic. It's not so easy for a government to pillage and loot pensions - so I doubt they'll try. At least the process will be long and very public before it happens. Which is warning enough for me.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/levy


lol. You havent been reading the newspapers in the last few months. 0.6% levy sound familiar??

Of course having a pension is worth it.
And if you're concerned about the risk profile of it then invest less in equities.

Pensions are a tax on stupidity.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Pensions are a tax on stupidity.

that's the lotto you are thinking of

Das Kitty

Defined Benefit Pensions ftw!

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

that's the lotto you are thinking of

Nope, defo pensions

srsly78

noxqs wrote: »

According to the papers from my pension scheme I have the right to transfer it - and if the gov tries to touch it, I'll move it outside of their jurisdiction before they even finish that train of thought.

I also just looked up the EU legislation on the topic. It's not so easy for a government to pillage and loot pensions - so I doubt they'll try. At least the process will be long and very public before it happens. Which is warning enough for me.

Edit: You also have the right to manage your assets yourself. As you get closer to pension age, sell of the stocks and go bonds only. Significantly less risk and still respectable return. Stocks is great if you're decades off retiring.

They ARE looting everyone's pension fund, that's what the recent 0.5% levy does.

maninasia

noxqs wrote: »

The government doesn't have access to private pension funds.

Full stop.

My pension savings is currently invested in world market bond/stocks. I get a statement every month how much my portfolio is worth. It's managed by a public and regulated company.

The government would never be able to touch those assets. Tax the returns, sure. But actually grabbing the cash? Are you serious?

Not having a pension is a terrible mistake which you will regret.

And I can assure you - the returns on the world market will go up and down but in the decades before you retire it will certainly perform above inflation which is goal number one. Anything above that is just nice.

There is a flaw in your logic. There is no certainty in any financial model, just probability and even then we have all seen financial catastrophes wipe whole banks out. In fact the only reason more people didn't lose their savings is that the Federal Reserve pumped massive amounts of money into the system (but that did devalue the USD). Now they have stopped doing that you will see the pension values (linked to world stock indices) dropping. These guys have been borrowing money cheap from Japan and the US , but I think they are running out of places to borrow this cash.
Beat inflation, not neccessarily.

chicken fingers

Worse than pensions are people who work in pensions.
Imagine your life:

Take money off people in small increments for 40 years.
Invest it, pay your staff and overheads from the profits.
Make calculated guesses at how long the people will live.
When they retire, pay them back for 20 years (or until they die)

Jobs would involve
soul-less selling of pensions.
Betting how long people will live
Investing the money
Paying out the measly sum you deem fit to give them.
Spend the profits!

Ive never paid into a pension and I never will. I always work on contract, I always pay another soulless bloodsucker (tax lawyer) to figure out and set up the structures so that I don't have to pay more than a couple of percent tax.
I save and invest my money with a different bloodsucker, but at least I know that I always have access to my money.
Im 27 and from working on contracts (rather than pensionable taxable permanent jobs) the last 8 years I will be able to retire very comfortably in 15 years.

When I want to retire, I will live off my savings or just buy a bunch of houses and have a management company pay me the rent.

How much % per person does a pensions company profit at the end of the day? Difficult to calculate but I am sure its too much.

Mocha Joe

My betfair account is my pension.

maninasia

It depends on personal circumstances and what type of pension it is. Since the government gives tax breaks for pensions and some companies match pension contributions that might not be such a bad deal for PAYE workers. Government pensions are are a different kettle of fish entirely. The devil is in the details.

Mr McBoatface

Pension are a great idea ......try telling that to the Waterford Cystal workers - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0323/1224292846746.html

The "Logan's Run" pension scheme initiative will be on stream well before most of the posters here have a chance to draw down on their "investments" .

chicken fingers

Company matches pension contributions?
Id rather just take that money now, thanks.

Ray Palmer

Amazing how clueless people are. Want to pay less tax and get your employer to give you more money? Get a pension. You get more than you put in.

kowloon

Pensions only make sense for those optimistic enough to think they'll live to retire.

Something about lizard people and the illuminati...

chicken fingers

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Amazing how clueless people are. Want to pay less tax and get your employer to give you more money? Get a pension. You get more than you put in.

Amazing how clueless some sheep are.
You may get out more than you put in because the company matches what you put in and because it is invested.
The company still has to pay for this.

Any time I have been offered a full time role I've sat down and countered with a contract for the services and gotten up to four times the take home, minus paying pensions or a lot of tax. Im 27 with $400k banked and I pay less than 5% per year in tax and professional fees. Id rather this than be 27, on 35k with 30k banked in some pension scheme that may eventually become worthless.

At the end of the day you're happy with a couple hundred per week, and I will be happy with a couple million in the bank.

srsly78

@ChickenFingers: Are you even tax resident in Ireland? Do you realise laws etc vary between countries? Pension is the main way to dodge tax in Ireland, not elsewhere tho. In UK dividends are a good way, not here tho.

If you are tax-resident in Ireland, do you realise that mouthing off on the net about how you have evaded loads of tax might not be incredible intelligent?

chicken fingers

Have never evaded a cent. No I am not tax resident (not even Irish, but I know several Irish who choose not to use pensions or give control of chunks of their money away).
There are several great ways to avoid using your money to bail out banks, pay for other peoples mistakes, etc.
Consult a good tax lawyer and they will explain that not everything is "shady" and dodgy.
BTW I'm sure any mod can confirm I am not resident by looking at my IP address.

"mouthing off", well I just wanted to show another side to the picture.
People don't have to do pensions.