Your Opinion on PDF recruitment

Tubsandtiles

Well guys I thought I would put this question to you as I know alot on here are members of the PDF AND RDF. With the recent embargo on recruitment in the PDF, I got thinking that a good idea for the PDF next time they were recruiting would be to recruit only from the RDF. I'm not trying to justify not getting a place in the last intake, I just thought it would be a very good idea. I guess also people are on a waiting list, am I right in presuming after a year the list is voided. Then following another intake only of civilians etc. Thoughts and ideas guys ?:)

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Why do you think it's a good idea?

Tubsandtiles

In terms of training, recruits would have more confidence already having trained with weapon systems, drill and other military criteria. I reckon it would reduce the amount of drop outs (I'm not saying there has been many from Civie street) that I am aware of). It would give many people who have a keen interest in a military life a chance where as seen in the amount of applications the PDF received this year showing a large amount of people only joined up due to the economic troubles. In my opinion a large number in applications must have been related to the "a feck it theres no jobs I'll give the army a go" and while these people might have not got accepted they reduced the chances of you getting a place by just applying. Its only an idea I have just to maybe make the recruitment process easier on both military personnel and civilians

Praetorian Saighdiuir

If a recruit platoon was to excusively have ex RDF troops, maybe the training could be made a month shorter. They have experience in all the basics and would somewhat have adapted to military life already. Maybe keep training the same length but you could incorporate more into basic training, maybe a driver course or Mowag dismount course.

Personally, having ex RDF troops in a recruit platoon has had mixed results for me. Many come in believing they are more qualified to train troops than you are. They have so many bad habits (including weapon safety issues) that they pass on to civvy recruits. Some however are fantastic, well switched on and they are beneficial to the instuctors because they can help our the weaker recruits.


I dont believe this will ever happen but it would not be the worst idea in the world!

MickJB1989

Given the high recruitment standards in the PDF, I'd hope that most, if not all, of the "the economy's fecked" applicants would have been weeded out in selection. When a force recruits sparingly, it can take the time to ensure the best and most dedicated are taken on.

As a civilian, I think limiting recruitment only to those in the RDF would mean the PDF missing out on many qualified and appropriate candidates. Also, given that only around 2000 reserves passed grat (according to the other thread on the RDF), it would mean that unsuitable members of the RDF could get in ahead of better civilians. This would be unfair both to the competent RDF members (who could be looked upon as only getting in due to affirmative action) and to the civilian recruits who could potentially out class some RDF members.

NoQuarter

I personally think its an awful idea. The lads in my platoon, the ex RDF guys were better than the rest of us for about the first week, then we were all on par.

I promise you, had your idea had been applied to my platoon, the Defence Forces would have lost some of the best soldiers I have seen.

Really no offence meant here, but the RDF is nothing in comparison, what the RDF teaches you will be shouted out of you in the first week of recruit training and you will have to relearn everything anyway!

So, to summarise, its just a fundamentally flawed idea!

Fozzydog3

I read or seen somewhere that sniper platoons (whatever their called ) hate taking on people from hunting backgrounds because they have to undo all their bad habits , I guess the same theory could be applied here

Morpheus

yes

with our training on weapons being from the same training manuals

and our foot drill being from the same training manuals

and our courses being taken from the same training manuals

and all overseen by pdf cadre staff to ensure we arent making up lessons (like the old days)

some very uninformed posts here...

you have to undo all of our bad habits??? thanks for that nice comment.

there's only one correct way to strip/assemble/fire/clean/use a rifle/gpmg/pistol/ etc

and only one way to teach it and the instructors have all been tested and qualified by pdf/rdf mixed boards in completing the (newer) pnco courses.

the lads from my unit, who went pdf in the last 6 months, both cadet and enlisted, said that the training they had was a good headstart. of course they have to re learn everything, and the smart soldier doesnt work ahead in the lessons or go on about how he did this stuff already and become a heat seeker, but their opinions were that it makes the workload a lot easier if you already know your way around the basic recruit training.

also should point out that i dont believe that it should be RDF exclusively only recruiting.

if you ARE a member, then you already get a 10% bonus towards your score for being a reserve, not to mention the advantage of experience in the army to a certain degree, to working under a chain of command, safely handling weapons and to being subject to military law. but normal civvies should still get as much a chance as anyone else. there are huge numbers of people who either dont join, or cant (with current recruitment embargo) for whatever reason but would still be excellent soldiers, as much as their are heat seekers in our units, who joined back in the day, who i wouldnt trust with a water pistol and if we are ever sent out to fight for real, would probably be safer for everyone else with a bullet in the back than working with you.

BigDuffman

I wouldn't say exclusively recruiting from the RDF is a good idea. But it is definitely an advantage. This is an old argument, but one that has merit on both sides.

But as a whole any feed back I've ever heard. ( I'm basing this solely on the last 3 years, from the lads I've trained 2 are now Cadets, 3 are now GS in the AC and NS, 1 long term member of my coy recently passed out as an LT.) all of whom have told me that the RDF experiences made life so much easier. From weapons handling (all from the same manuals and in my Bn are overseen by parent unit cadre and PDF training officers who ensure that our SOPs are in line with the the PDF bn that we work with) to general demeanour.

This obviously varies depending on the experience and training recieved in the RDF as that differs from coy to coy. I've been 9 years in the RDF and as a result I'd like to think that this amount of experience will be of benefit to me just through sheer muscle memory and not being under the illusion that PDF life is anything like Call Of Duty on account of working closely with PDF counterparts.

There are bad habits to be unlearned (eg. I'll be fcuked if ever go PDF as its so hard not to turn right when falling out..I also think that turning right looks a lot smarter!) and new habbits to pick up.

There is also the flipside of the heat seeking sh!tehawks who have this "super bagger" mentality when they join up. These people will have that horrendous know-it-all attitude and will rightly be bottled by the Training NCOs. Anyone that has had RDF experience then gone on to PDF would know that it would be wise to keep ears open and mouth shut. Playing the grey man and staying at level as rest of class is obviously the smartest move as opposed to "in the reserves we did x" or "I've done z 100s of times before".

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I was in the FCA for 2 years before I joined up. I found it very beneficial. I used the FN and Bren in the FCA but easily adapted to the Steyr/GPMG.

Footdrill, dress, words of command, rank structure, organisation, discipline and cop on were attributes I had already been taught in the FCA, so I had a big advantage compared to civvy recruits. I kept my mouth shut and just helped the weaker recruits . The little things like bulling boots and shaping berets took the pressure off some of the lads.

When I trained troops, a lot of guys would not volunteer the fact that they were ex RDF. As soon as they would get off the truck on day 1, I would fall the recruits in and scream "Aire", without thinking the ex RDF lads stood to attention and then Id know who had served. That was a handy little trick.

BigDuffman

benwavner wrote: »

When I trained troops, a lot of guys would not volunteer the fact that they were ex RDF. As soon as they would get off the truck on day 1, I would fall the recruits in and scream "Aire", without thinking the ex RDF lads stood to attention and then Id know who had served. That was a handy little trick.

Sneaky fcuker!!!!

Morpheus

AIRE!!!!

quality, just spat my cornflakes all over the screen

wish times were better and us red ar$es had people to instruct!

Tubsandtiles

I often wondered how NCO' s knew if people were ex RDF on the first day of training ..I wonder do the training staff get told if their platoon have ex RDF ?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I often wondered how NCO' s knew if people were ex RDF on the first day of training ..I wonder do the training staff get told if their platoon have ex RDF ?

Sometimes you can just tell by looking at them. A combination of neat haircuts, standing properly and even they way they hold their bags are dead give aways. Although, I remember this one guy that turned up in a full length black leather jacket with huge black boots with red and yellow flames painted on them....what a heatseeker!!

galwaycyclist

Coming at it from the other direction it might be that an RDF training NCO wants people who joined the RDF because they want to be in the RDF. It might be that being used as a "stepping stone" to other things is not necessarily a good use of our efforts in training people up.

For instance it might happen that people get pushed through PNCOs courses because they are known to be looking for a cadetship or to get into the PDF and it might help their application. All well and good until they get the PDF call and then the parent unit is down junior NCOs while switched-on "RDF focussed" 3 stars are left hanging around the cookhouse washing dishes.

Morpheus

washing dishes is for civvy camp staff.

you should only get sent on a PNCO course after sitting through a couple of interviews with a selection board

AND having proven yourself as a dedicated 3 star with a number of camps,

have a history of having applied to participate in courses

hopefully have completed at least one course

completed a number of exercises (usually 48+ hrs out on the ground).

having been recommended by other NCOs (probably without your knowledge, a good CO will interview those NCO's you've under)

this way, if you intend it to be a stepping stone, and make people in your unit aware of this, you wont get on the course if they believe you will be gone within a couple of months.

at least this is the way it usually works in my unit