When will the 1/4 finals draw take place?

Stinicker

When will the 1/4 finals draw take place? Will it be this evening after the two provincial finals or will we have to wait until the round 4 games and Round 3 Tyrone V Armagh game is played first?

Clareman

I'm almost positive they wait until after Round 4 is played so they can avoid having repeats of provincial finals but I'm open to correction

unknown13

The way the draw is looking like. It looks like we won't need a draw. All the games will be practically set before the draw.

Stinicker

Clareman wrote: »

I'm almost positive they wait until after Round 4 is played so they can avoid having repeats of provincial finals but I'm open to correction

Round 4 won't be due to finish until the same time as the Quarter finals as Tyrone and Armagh have to play round three next weekend and the winner then will face Roscommon over the August Bank holiday weekend the same weekend the Quarter finals are scheduled for. And all this is banking on having no draws along the way also!

Mike O' Brien

so if I have this correct it will be Dublin V Down, Limerick or Armagh. Is that right?

traecy1

Mike O' Brien wrote: »

so if I have this correct it will be Dublin V Down, Limerick or Armagh. Is that right?

The only teams Dublin cannot play in the quarter finals are Kerry, Donegal, Mayo and Wexford. Therefore they will play one of Cork, Down, Derry, Kildare, Armagh, Tyrone, Roscommon or Limerick. I'd say the draw will be made next weekend assuming there are no replays required in the Armagh/Tyrone game or the 4th round qualifiers that take place next Saturday. They will probably just stipulate that Mayo cannot draw the winners of the Tyrone/Armagh v Roscommon game.

ardmacha

They will probably just stipulate that Mayo cannot draw the winners of the Tyrone/Armagh v Roscommon game.

Most likely. I imagine that Kerry can play Limerick as they played before provincial final stage, likewise Kildare and Dublin.

traecy1

ardmacha wrote: »

Most likely. I imagine that Kerry can play Limerick as they played before provincial final stage, likewise Kildare and Dublin.

I assume they can meet again as they allowed Meath and Kildare to play again last night having already played in the Leinster championship.

kerosene

Free for all at this stage I reckon

Redsoxfan

A provincial winner cannot meat the team they defeated in the provincial final. That's the only stipulation.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/downloads/wallcharts/football_wallchart_2011.pdf

DH2K9

Three out of four matches will be played on August Bank Holiday and the final match which is the match one week behind will be played the weekend after.

Fr Tod Umptious

traecy1 wrote: »

They will probably just stipulate that Mayo cannot draw the winners of the Tyrone/Armagh v Roscommon game.

Which is a load of b****x if you ask me.
It's fair enough that the provincial winners do not meet the team they last played in the quarters but to rule out a possible Mayo v Tyrone/Armagh is a pity.

And that is what will happen as the draw has to be made next weekend in order to start the quarters the following weekend

legendary.xix

The quarter-final draw should be known already.
The semi-final pairing are known: Munster champion/R4 v Connaught champion/R4 and Leinster championR/4 v Ulster champion/R4.

For the quarter-final draw, all they need is 4 bowls:
Bowl A:
Connaught winner
Munster winner
Bowl B:
Leinster Winner
Ulster winner
Bowl C:
Connaught runner-up/R3
Munster runner-up/R3
Bowl
Leinster runner-up/R3
Ulster runner-Up/R3

Simply draw a team from Bowl A against a team from Bowl D and a team from Bowl B against a team from Bowl C.

This way, provincial winners will have some idea of their next opponent. Also there will not be a repeat pairing of a Provincial final before the All-Ireland final. It's a bit frustrating for provincial winners not to know from which game their next opponent will come from. If Dublin for example knew they were playing Cork or Down, training will be better with that game to focus on. The quarter-final draw outlined could easily have been made last year with the provincial draws. Rounds 3&4 should be the last draws needed.

Syferus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Which is a load of b****x if you ask me.
It's fair enough that the provincial winners do not meet the team they last played in the quarters but to rule out a possible Mayo v Tyrone/Armagh is a pity.

And that is what will happen as the draw has to be made next weekend in order to start the quarters the following weekend

Ah sure don't worry, Roscommon will make all thsoe permutations moot

Fr Tod Umptious

legendary.xix wrote: »

The quarter-final draw should be known already.
The semi-final pairing are known: Munster champion/R4 v Connaught champion/R4 and Leinster championR/4 v Ulster champion/R4.

For the quarter-final draw, all they need is 4 bowls:
Bowl A:
Connaught winner
Munster winner
Bowl B:
Leinster Winner
Ulster winner
Bowl C:
Connaught runner-up/R3
Munster runner-up/R3
Bowl
Leinster runner-up/R3
Ulster runner-Up/R3

Simply draw a team from Bowl A against a team from Bowl D and a team from Bowl B against a team from Bowl C.

This way, provincial winners will have some idea of their next opponent. Also there will not be a repeat pairing of a Provincial final before the All-Ireland final. It's a bit frustrating for provincial winners not to know from which game their next opponent will come from. If Dublin for example knew they were playing Cork or Down, training will be better with that game to focus on. The quarter-final draw outlined could easily have been made last year with the provincial draws. Rounds 3&4 should be the last draws needed.

They tried something similar in 05 and 06, where the quarterfinals were paired the same was as that years semis

If say Munster were due to meet Connaught in the semi then in the quarters the Munster champions would play the Connaught loosers or the team that beat them, and the Connaught champions would play the Munster loosers or the team that beat them

I think the idea behind it was to try and reduce the chances of a single province All Ireland Final.

They have got rid of it since and reverted to a open draw in the quarters with the condition that the provincial finialists cannot meet in the quarters.

I agree with the current setup, if you are going to have an open draw for every other round of the qualifies then the same should be true for the quarters (which is technically part of the 'new' system)

They should have an open draw for the semis too but for some odd reason theysystemticking with the old rotation system

The Swordsman

Redsoxfan wrote: »

A provincial winner cannot meat the team they defeated in the provincial final. That's the only stipulation.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/downloads/wallcharts/football_wallchart_2011.pdf

Then how can the draw be before the last of the Round 4 qualifiers is decided?

The last of the qualifiers is not until the same weekend that the QFs are due to take place. Presumably, the QF draw is due to take place next weekend ahead of the following weekend's fixtures.

Now there would be no problem as long as Mayo are not drawn to meet the winners of the Roscommon Q4 qualifier (due to be played on Saturday week). But if Mayo are drawn to play the winners of the Roscommon Q4 qualifier, there is a problem. Because if Roscommon win, it is not a valid draw whereas, if Roscommon's opponents win, it is a valid draw.

legendary.xix

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They tried something similar in 05 and 06, where the quarterfinals were paired the same was as that years semis

If say Munster were due to meet Connaught in the semi then in the quarters the Munster champions would play the Connaught loosers or the team that beat them, and the Connaught champions would play the Munster loosers or the team that beat them

I think the idea behind it was to try and reduce the chances of a single province All Ireland Final.

They have got rid of it since and reverted to a open draw in the quarters with the condition that the provincial finialists cannot meet in the quarters.

I agree with the current setup, if you are going to have an open draw for every other round of the qualifies then the same should be true for the quarters (which is technically part of the 'new' system)

They should have an open draw for the semis too but for some odd reason theysystemticking with the old rotation system

I support the old rotation system. I'd love to see the Dublin/Tyrone proposal come in where provincial champions would play a champions round with the winners progressing to the AI semi-finals and the losers taking on two qualifiers in the AI quarter-finals.

If two provincial finalists are good enough, why shouldn't they meet in the AI final? What good is it to the 4 provincial champions at present not to know their next opponent? At least with the draw I've outlined above, they would know the game their opponent will come from and they could focus on that.

Fr Tod Umptious

legendary.xix wrote: »

I support the old rotation system. I'd love to see the Dublin/Tyrone proposal come in where provincial champions would play a champions round with the winners progressing to the AI semi-finals and the losers taking on two qualifiers in the AI quarter-finals.

Well that is a completely different point,

legendary.xix wrote: »

If two provincial finalists are good enough, why shouldn't they meet in the AI final? What good is it to the 4 provincial champions at present not to know their next opponent? At least with the draw I've outlined above, they would know the game their opponent will come from and they could focus on that.

What is your point ?
'If two provincial finalists are good enough, why shouldn't they meet in the AI final?' - what has that got to do with anything ?

What harm is it that the 4 provincial champions at present do not to know their next opponent?

If the provincial champions are any good then they should be able to develop game plans to beat any of the teams they may meet, why should they it reduced to a possible two ?

My only gripe is that May cannot play Tyrone or Armagh in this set-up all because of one lousy draw in round 3

Surely this secanrio has been encountered before in the last 11 seasons and been surmounted ?

mossyc123

The draw will take place on Sunday and if the favourites (Cork, Wexford, Kildare, Tyrone) all win this weekend there will be the following provisos:

Cork can't meet Kerry.

Wexford can't meet Dublin.

Tyrone/Roscommon can't meet Mayo.

and

If Derry win,

Derry can't meet Donegal.

The Tyrone/Armagh delay isn't that much of an issue as the draw is already restricted to a certain degree.

The reason there were no restrictions on last years QF Draw is that all 4 Provincial Final losers lost the Round 4 games and the only qualifier replay was Round 1 (Kildare v Antrim) which was played over the spare weekend between the Round 1 and 2 qualifiers.

In '09 the winners of the delayed Limerick/Meath Round 4 game couldn't meet Cork in the QF as Cork had defeated Limerick in the Munster Final.

Not ideal but thats what you get when you have an arseways fixture list thats congested with 37 football games over 7 weekends from 19th June to August Bank Holiday Weekend (5 Provincial Semi-Finals, 4 Provincial finals, 24 Qualifier games and 4 Quarter-Finals) and then play the remaining 3 football games (Semi-Finals and Final) over the following 7 weekends.

It could be a lot more messed up had there been a few more draws and replays over the last few weekends.

The Swordsman

mossyc123 wrote: »

The draw will take place on Sunday and if the favourites (Cork, Wexford, Kildare, Tyrone) all win this weekend there will be the following provisos:

Cork can't meet Kerry.

Wexford can't meet Dublin.

Tyrone/Roscommon can't meet Mayo.
and

If Derry win,

Derry can't meet Donegal.

The Tyrone/Armagh delay isn't that much of an issue as the draw is already restricted to a certain degree.

The reason there were no restrictions on last years QF Draw is that all 4 Provincial Final losers lost the Round 4 games and the only qualifier replay was Round 1 (Kildare v Antrim) which was played over the spare weekend between the Round 1 and 2 qualifiers.

In '09 the winners of the delayed Limerick/Meath Round 4 game couldn't meet Cork in the QF as Cork had defeated Limerick in the Munster Final.

Not ideal but thats what you get when you have an arseways fixture list thats congested with 37 football games over 7 weekends from 19th June to August Bank Holiday Weekend (5 Provincial Semi-Finals, 4 Provincial finals, 24 Qualifier games and 4 Quarter-Finals) and then play the remaining 3 football games (Semi-Finals and Final) over the following 7 weekends.

It could be a lot more messed up had there been a few more draws and replays over the last few weekends.

The rules don't stipulate that Mayo cannot play Tyrone - they say Roscommon can't play Mayo.

So what happens if Mayo come out of the pot with Tyrone/Roscommon? Technically, I don't think that can be redrawn.

mossyc123

The Swordsman wrote: »

The rules don't stipulate that Mayo cannot play Tyrone - they say Roscommon can't play Mayo.

So what happens if Mayo come out of the pot with Tyrone/Roscommon? Technically, I don't think that can be redrawn.

Technically it can.

A Tyrone (or Armagh!) / Roscommon v Mayo draw offers up the possibility of something that would be against the rules of the Qualifiers, i.e a repeat of the Connacht Final at the All-Ireland Quarter Final stage, happening.

That tie would therefore have to be redrawn as they would always err on the side of caution.

Not ideal, but that's what happens with such a congested fixture list.

Reckon they should play "next score the winner" after extra time finishes a draw for all qualifier ties to avoid this sort of thing happening.

Fr Tod Umptious

mossyc123 wrote: »

Technically it can.

A Tyrone (or Armagh!) / Roscommon v Mayo draw offers up the possibility of something that would be against the rules of the Qualifiers, i.e a repeat of the Connacht Final at the All-Ireland Quarter Final stage, happening.

That tie would therefore have to be redrawn as they would always err on the side of caution.

Not ideal, but that's what happens with such a congested fixture list.

Reckon they should play "next score the winner" after extra time finishes a draw for all qualifier ties to avoid this sort of thing happening.

Of course there is no problem with re-drawing if you have a situation where it would be Mayo v Ross or Rnd 3 winner

But that still rules out the possibility of Mayo playing Tyrone or Armagh.

shiibata

I think the QF draw will be;

Donegal v Cork
Kerry v Kildare
Dublin v Tyrone
Mayo v Wexford

Gingy

Any draws on Saturday, especially the Armagh v Tyrone match would throw a massive spanner into the works.

Fr Tod Umptious

mossyc123 wrote: »

In '09 the winners of the delayed Limerick/Meath Round 4 game couldn't meet Cork in the QF as Cork had defeated Limerick in the Munster Final.

Thanks for that, so there is a precedent for this. Pity really that you have to exclude a possible matchup just because of fixture congestion

Gingy wrote: »

Any draws on Saturday, especially the Armagh v Tyrone match would throw a massive spanner into the works.

Very true, you could see a case where Down v Cork is a draw then Kerry could not be drawn against Down.

Temp Barry

Gingy wrote: »

Any draws on Saturday, especially the Armagh v Tyrone match would throw a massive spanner into the works.

There will be extra-time if any game finishes level this weekend. Though it is amazing how many games that go to ET still end up level.

hurlingmad81

there'll surely be 1 upset in the qualifiers. tyr-arm and lim-wex look too close to call