Another "How much will it cost?" Thread

StupidLikeAFox

Hey guys,

I have an idea for a website. The plan is that I will set up a site using open source software to get up and running, then get a professional custom build around a year later if it all goes well.

Some points on the site:
- It will basically be like a clone of ebay, slightly tweaked for my niche. It will only have a "Buy Now" option though, no auction sales
- Front End: It will need all the functionality of ebay - stores, feedback system, payment processing both between buyers and sellers and to the site admin the usual
- Back End: Id like to have a dashboard style for the store owners. And some reporting facilities also. And an easy system for uploading products
-I have a fairly specific niche. I have it researched well and think there is a good market there for it.
- If it matters, I have done a masters which included a lot of systems analysis and design, so on that front I'll have the thing designed (layouts, screenshots, use cases etc) and will be able to hand the developer a fairly detailed brief to work off from day one.

So I was hoping to get a developer on board who would design this for me and take maybe 10% equity in the company. :pac: Just kidding, how much are we talking for a site on this scale?

Also where would I go to find a company that could do this. I would like to get quotes from a few different companies who may have a track record in designing large scale sites like this. Im not sure if a one man operation would be the best choice for this, maybe they would? Any recommendations for companies who would specialise in this?

Sparks

Moved to design...

Zascar

No hard in writing up a more detailed spec of what you want and throw a project on elance or odesk - sometimes you can get some great people on there, or even find someone who has a pre built script you can buy and then modify to your needs!

StupidLikeAFox

I think I'd prefer to partner with an Irish company though, for peace of mind more than anything. It would be a fairly large project, and I think I'd like to have an Irish based company that I could use in case the site needed to be modified down the line etc.

Also I would have thought elance etc would be for smaller scale websites, didnt think theyd suit a large project.

As for for getting a script and modifying it, well thats what I'll be doing initially. But I wouldnt have near enough skills or time to go about creating what I need. I want it done right, by professionals who are doing it every day.

Ill still have a look at elance and odesk though, thanks for your help

jmcc

ColHol wrote: »

Hey guys,

I have an idea for a website. The plan is that I will set up a site using open source software to get up and running, then get a professional custom build around a year later if it all goes well.

It is better to do it correctly from the start rather than have to reengineer and redesign everything on a running site.

Some points on the site:
- It will basically be like a clone of ebay, slightly tweaked for my niche. It will only have a "Buy Now" option though, no auction sales

A clone in what sense? You do realise that Ebay runs on more than one server?

- Front End: It will need all the functionality of ebay - stores, feedback system, payment processing both between buyers and sellers and to the site admin the usual

Possible using a number of Open Source and paid products.

- Back End: Id like to have a dashboard style for the store owners. And some reporting facilities also. And an easy system for uploading products
-I have a fairly specific niche. I have it researched well and think there is a good market there for it.

Thinking there is a market is not enough. You have to be able to fund the site until it becomes profitable.

- If it matters, I have done a masters which included a lot of systems analysis and design, so on that front I'll have the thing designed (layouts, screenshots, use cases etc) and will be able to hand the developer a fairly detailed brief to work off from day one.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical but I don't rate academic qualifications that highly when it comes to startups. You have to have some kind of entrepreneurial drive.

So I was hoping to get a developer on board who would design this for me and take maybe 10% equity in the company. :pac: Just kidding, how much are we talking for a site on this scale?

Sure you may get some PHP/HTML webdeveloper onboard but you won't get the kind of expertise (database administrators, marketing people, admins) that you really need for this kind of operation. Toy websites with a handful of pages and some e-commerce plug-ins running on Joomla, or similar, are easy. Large scale database driven websites with a lot of simultaneous users and e-commerce are not.

Also where would I go to find a company that could do this.

You don't have a specification document. Writing one of these is an exercise in itself. It allows you to understand the requirements and allows a prospective company to properly quote for the job. Otherwise you will be considered to be just a tyrekicker.

I would like to get quotes from a few different companies who may have a track record in designing large scale sites like this.

Designing large scale websites is not as easy as people think (though it seems that every webdev thinks they can do it) because it requires a range of skills. There are probably many companies out there who have developed medium sized (a few thousand webpages) out there but those with genuine large scale expertise are very rare. They are also expensive. What you really want is a scalable design. Again that would involve people with large scale website design expertise. With large scale website design you have to do it right first time. There is rarely a second chance. That's why you should sit down and draft a proper job spec because it will help you understand what you require.

Regards...jmcc

Trojan

There's 2 basic ways to go about funding & building any startup - bootstrap it (self-funding), or look for angel & VC investment. Which you go for depends on a lot of factors - your own resources (capital, skills), the scale and nature of the project, etc. The likes of Enterprise Ireland should be your first port of call in the latter case, they will point you in the right direction.

+1 to what jmcc says there, and just on this particular point:

jmcc wrote: »

Sure you may get some PHP/HTML webdeveloper onboard but you won't get the kind of expertise (database administrators, marketing people, admins) that you really need for this kind of operation. Toy websites with a handful of pages and some e-commerce plug-ins running on Joomla, or similar, are easy. Large scale database driven websites with a lot of simultaneous users and e-commerce are not.

What you can do with limited resources and a plug-and-play CMS like Joomla/Drupal/WordPress is build a working prototype. It won't be as scalable but it could work particularly well as proof of concept to help you get that funding on board.

StupidLikeAFox

jmcc wrote: »

It is better to do it correctly from the start rather than have to reengineer and redesign everything on a running site.

Unfortunately I dont have the money to do that at the moment! Ill be setting up using an open source software which will have about 75% of the functionality I need. If this gets enough interest, as Trojan says, I'll be able to go to an Enterprise board, bank or angel investor and get the funding to do it right.

A clone in what sense? You do realise that Ebay runs on more than one server?

A clone as in functionality, an online marketplace. It will operate slightly different though

Possible using a number of Open Source and paid products.

Theres are plenty of open source scripts that can mimic ebay, but as I said

Thinking there is a market is not enough. You have to be able to fund the site until it becomes profitable.

The initial site can be set up and run very cheaply. But as I said it wont have 100% of the functionality I want. This wont matter to the developers either way though, because when I go to them I will be getting a completely new site built.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical but I don't rate academic qualifications that highly when it comes to startups. You have to have some kind of entrepreneurial drive

.
Well thats a bit patronising tbh, I came on here to see what the ball park figure would be for getting a site like this designed, not business advice. Im aware that the site is only going to be one part of a the business. Im also not naive enough to think the thing is going to run itself either.

The point i was trying to make was that Im not going into a developer and saying "build me a site". I'll be able to hand them a detailed spec with scenarios, layouts etc. It should speed up the process in the early stages I would think

Sure you may get some PHP/HTML webdeveloper onboard but you won't get the kind of expertise (database administrators, marketing people, admins) that you really need for this kind of operation. Toy websites with a handful of pages and some e-commerce plug-ins running on Joomla, or similar, are easy. Large scale database driven websites with a lot of simultaneous users and e-commerce are not.

So what your saying is a one man band wouldnt be up to it. Thats all I wanted to know

You don't have a specification document. Writing one of these is an exercise in itself. It allows you to understand the requirements and allows a prospective company to properly quote for the job. Otherwise you will be considered to be just a tyrekicker.

I do actually. Its quite detailed too, but naturally Im not going to put it up here for all to see.

Designing large scale websites is not as easy as people think (though it seems that every webdev thinks they can do it) because it requires a range of skills. There are probably many companies out there who have developed medium sized (a few thousand webpages) out there but those with genuine large scale expertise are very rare. They are also expensive. What you really want is a scalable design. Again that would involve people with large scale website design expertise. With large scale website design you have to do it right first time. There is rarely a second chance. That's why you should sit down and draft a proper job spec because it will help you understand what you require.

Any recommendations for companies who are capable? Im aware that its not going to be cheap, what Id like to know will it be €5k, €10k, €20k? If ya need more info to give a ballpark figure thats fair enough

Trojan wrote: »

What you can do with limited resources and a plug-and-play CMS like Joomla/Drupal/WordPress is build a working prototype. It won't be as scalable but it could work particularly well as proof of concept to help you get that funding on board.

Thats the plan alright! But if/when the time comes to go make a real go of it Im going to to have to invest in the site.

I remember this guy was on Dragons Den at one stage, any idea what this site may have cost to build, roughly?

p

I think if you can find a CMS that offers most of what you want you could probably find a freelance dev to set it all up for you for a few grand depending on the work involved. I'd look at shop & 'buy & sell' CMSes too, since it's not an eBay clone if there's no auction. I'd also look at commercial ones, rather than just open source ones, as an upfront cost of even 300 euro could save you much more in dev costs potentially.

The biggest cost you'll have is a) visual design - creating something that looks professional, so get something with good default themes, and b) additional dev work - any customization that requires programming is going to ratchet up the cost, so be very careful about adding that at the start.

Hope that helps - all the best!

jmcc

ColHol wrote: »

Unfortunately I dont have the money to do that at the moment! Ill be setting up using an open source software which will have about 75% of the functionality I need. If this gets enough interest, as Trojan says, I'll be able to go to an Enterprise board, bank or angel investor and get the funding to do it right.

The solution that Trojan provided above is probably the best approach.

The initial site can be set up and run very cheaply. But as I said it wont have 100% of the functionality I want. This wont matter to the developers either way though, because when I go to them I will be getting a completely new site built.

Separating the demo from the production model is probably best but make sure that the critical data can be ported from one to the other without any problems.

Well thats a bit patronising tbh, I came on here to see what the ball park figure would be for getting a site like this designed, not business advice. Im aware that the site is only going to be one part of a the business. Im also not naive enough to think the thing is going to run itself either.

It is based on experience and also having gone through one of those EI EPP programs and having seen what the market can do to what seem to be, at first glance, good ideas. It is better to be brutally honest about what such sites involve rather than to give a happy-clappy DotBomb view.

The point i was trying to make was that Im not going into a developer and saying "build me a site". I'll be able to hand them a detailed spec with scenarios, layouts etc. It should speed up the process in the early stages I would think

It should help but if you don't understand the requirements or the nature of such a site, you could get taken by some webdevs who know even less.

So what your saying is a one man band wouldnt be up to it. Thats all I wanted to know

The other thing is that you should not be so eager to give up equity this early. Any investor will question why you did so.

I do actually. Its quite detailed too, but naturally Im not going to put it up here for all to see.

That's ok. Most us would not expect you do put it up. Just some key technical questions that you need to address in it (if you already have not):

1. How many users to you expect to get?
2. How many simultaneous users to you expect to have on at peak times?
3. How complex will your database be?
4. What kind of read:write ratio will your db have?
5. Is your project horizontally scalable?
6. Is your project vertically scalable?
7. What kind of administration resources are needed?
8. What kind of backup procedures will be required?
9. What kind of data protection issues are necessary?

They are just the basic ones. Horizontally scalable, as a concept, means that you can just add extra servers to cope with more traffic. Vertically scalable means beefing up the backend servers (db etc) to cope with increased demand. If you are storing personal data there are legalities that need to be addressed.

Any recommendations for companies who are capable? Im aware that its not going to be cheap, what Id like to know will it be €5k, €10k, €20k? If ya need more info to give a ballpark figure thats fair enough

Unfortunately not but doing it right is related to the scale and the number of users.

Thats the plan alright! But if/when the time comes to go make a real go of it Im going to to have to invest in the site.

Your biggest investment will be your time.

I remember this guy was on Dragons Den at one stage, any idea what this site may have cost to build, roughly?

Not sure. But I think that the Dragons Den effect hit it hard. (A lot of users in a very short time.) It is a great site idea though.

Regards...jmcc