Re-flowing iphone4 in oven

stuar

ok i was having a heated conversation on my iphone4 and during the exchange i hopped my phone off the ground and stamped on it, it was busted up but still showing a flicker of life with a couple of icons showing in the part of the lcd that was still displaying.

I replaced the lcd display/digitizer, battery, dock connector, camera and back, restored it to 4.3.3 but my wifi,bluetooth and network are gone, phone doesnt seem to read sim either, after doing a bit of searching i realised i need to reflow the mainboard in the oven at 200degree's for 7 minutes to reattach the connections, has anybody done this with success?

Any tips welcome, will be heating the oven in about an hour!

RobertFoster

Please don't put the battery in the oven.

stuar

RobertFoster wrote: »

Please don't put the battery in the oven.

Boom!, Call the burns unit!

Only messing, I'll be putting only the mainboard in.
The way its supposed to work is that it melts the solders that may have cracked, most replies to this topic are "new mainboard required" so I havent much to lose by baking it and it seems to work in some cases like my own.

partyatmygaff

Use a clean and dry toaster. A large oven normally used for cooking isn't ideal for reflow soldering.

If you have an infrared heat source that would be even better. If you somehow have access to Nitrogen or some other inert gas that wouldn't go amiss either. If Oxygen gets in to those solder joints you'll be in trouble.

Don't overdo it either or you'll have even bigger problems. Just heat it to the point that the solder reflows and pulls the components back in to position.

stuar

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Use a clean and dry toaster. A large oven normally used for cooking isn't ideal for reflow soldering.

If you have an infrared heat source that would be even better. If you somehow have access to Nitrogen or some other inert gas that wouldn't go amiss either. If Oxygen gets in to those solder joints you'll be in trouble.

Don't overdo it either or you'll have even bigger problems. Just heat it to the point that the solder reflows and pulls the components back in to position.

Thanks for the tips, if i use my toaster will I have to put it on its side so the board is flat?

If you could please elaborate as I'm getting itchy now to get this flowing or bury it after a long wake.

Why is an oven for cooking not suitable?. because it takes too long to cool down?

sorry no infared or nitrogen, just boring old oven and toaster!

partyatmygaff

stuar wrote: »

Thanks for the tips, if i use my toaster will I have to put it on its side so the board is flat?

If you could please elaborate as I'm getting itchy now to get this flowing or bury it after a long wake.

Why is an oven for cooking not suitable?. because it takes too long to cool down?

sorry no infared or nitrogen, just boring old oven and toaster!

Preferably on its side. The toaster orientation shouldn't actually affect anything in any significant way but even so horizontal is better.

A toaster usually goes up to around 230ish celsius. Solder melts at around 183C. I'd say keep it in the toaster for around 15-20 minutes. If at any point the PCB or any of the components start singing take the PCB out of the toaster immediately.

Once the 15 or so minutes have passed take the PCB out of the toaster and lay it down somewhere. Don't blow on it or anything like that. Just leave it in a relatively cool place and wait for the solder to harden.

partyatmygaff

All of that said however... if I were you i'd use a multimeter to check the PCB for any breaks and then i'd just do the solder work manually. It might not even be a loose solder joint. If you've multiple broken traces for example then there's no hope of repairing it.

If you could post up a photo of the PCB before doing the reflow that'd be a great help.

stuar

partyatmygaff wrote: »

All of that said however... if I were you i'd use a multimeter to check the PCB for any breaks and then i'd just do the solder work manually. It might not even be a loose solder joint. If you've multiple broken traces for example then there's no hope of repairing it.

If you could post up a photo of the PCB before doing the reflow that'd be a great help.

The solders are too small for me to attempt, if there are multiple trace breaks i dont really have much to lose.

When i pull it apart i'll photo front and back then after 15 minutes i'll bake it regardless, hopefully it works, if not, maybe i'll save somebody making a mistake.
Really appreciate your input,just what i was looking for.

ironclaw

Not wanted to cast a downer on this but I really think you've gone to way too much expense already. I'd eat my hat if you got the phone back to 100% working condition with repairs and a toaster. Fair play if you do but if it was me, I'd sell the phone for parts, stomach the loss and buy a new one.

drunkmonkey

Did you ground yourself before taking it apart, if not you could have already fried the iphone.

Really interested to hear out the toaster works out, first i've heard of it, best of luck with it.

partyatmygaff

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Did you ground yourself before taking it apart, if not you could have already fried the iphone.

Really interested to hear out the toaster works out, first i've heard of it, best of luck with it.

That precaution of ground yourself before working with electronics while true and certainly possible isn't nearly as big a problem as its made out to be. I even saw a spark come off a hard drive's logic board once while I was installing it and it still worked perfectly fine. Nevertheless, it's still good practice to ground yourself first.

barryd09

tell us more about said "heated argument"!

stuar

barryd09 wrote: »

tell us more about said "heated argument"!

Well it was more for a youtube video I did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPrZSBf4oG0

:D:D:D

I didn't get a chance to do it lastnight, will do today and post results up sometime later.

about grounding, as said already, it's over amplified, pulled all types of things apart without frying the sensitive components.

I'm going to stick with the oven as it seems to work with general electronics!

Roar83

Where did you do this bit of searching and why do you believe the problem is solder cracks. Have would checked spring connectors, these are usually used to interface with the antenna. Have you checked the antenna. If you got cracking have you tried applying pressure to the wi-fi/BT ic to see if you can get an itermittant connection. If you reflow you could cause more damage, definitly a last resort

CathalDublin

I'd use the heatgun method to direct the heat at the areas you think are at fault myself

gooch2k9

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Preferably on its side. The toaster orientation shouldn't actually affect anything in any significant way but even so horizontal is better.

A toaster usually goes up to around 230ish celsius. Solder melts at around 183C. I'd say keep it in the toaster for around 15-20 minutes. If at any point the PCB or any of the components start singing take the PCB out of the toaster immediately.

Once the 15 or so minutes have passed take the PCB out of the toaster and lay it down somewhere. Don't blow on it or anything like that. Just leave it in a relatively cool place and wait for the solder to harden.

Would a toaster have the correct heating profile?

masseyno9

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Would a toaster have the correct heating profile?

Not entirely sure what a heating profile is, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no! When you're talking about putting an iphone in a sideways toaster, i don't think the specifics matter that much!

Is it the rate at which it heats up by any chance? wild guess!

gooch2k9

Basically the profile of the temperature for the whole process, shown by a graph of temperature against time. Normally reflowing would have the oven increase heat by 2-4C/sec(with slight variations which wouldn't be achievable here), then cool quite rapidly once maximum heat has been reached. Could damage the components, ICs mainly, on the board to have them sitting at 230C for any length of time. If its not working and the only other option is a new board no harm in trying though.

partyatmygaff

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Would a toaster have the correct heating profile?

Probably not

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Basically the profile of the temperature for the whole process, shown by a graph of temperature against time. Normally reflowing would have the oven increase heat by 2-4C/sec(with slight variations which wouldn't be achievable here), then cool quite rapidly once maximum heat has been reached. Could damage the components, ICs mainly, on the board to have them sitting at 230C for any length of time. If its not working and the only other option is a new board no harm in trying though.

That's why monitoring it is necessary. At 230C the PCB itself will start to singe if left in for too long. The trick is to ensure the surface of the PCB hovers around 200C for a certain period of time and then after that period of time passes the board is removed and left to cool. One thing you don't want to do is cool it too fast as that will cause the solder joints to become brittle.

stuar

Still havent got around to doing this, I read an article about somebody with the same problem and he simply changed the battery, I'll borrow a friends original iphone battery on the off chance it works before I bake it as my new battery is an ebay special.

deecom

Jesus have you lost you mind! Whatever may be wrong with the solder joints a toaster is not the way to go about this!

As said before time to cut your loses on this one!! :rolleyes:

Think of the toaster...

stuar

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Probably not

Ohh thanks party for the toaster theory, just aswell somebody asked that question, and you were honest with a .

partyatmygaff wrote: »

That's why monitoring it is necessary. At 230C the PCB itself will start to singe if left in for too long. The trick is to ensure the surface of the PCB hovers around 200C for a certain period of time and then after that period of time passes the board is removed and left to cool. One thing you don't want to do is cool it too fast as that will cause the solder joints to become brittle.

From what I've read the oven should be preheated to just below 200C, then the board put in for 7 minutes, oven turned off and door opened, then left to cool for 1 hour in the oven.
I believe they are put through a kind of oven during manufacture at roughly the same temperature and time.

stuar

deecom wrote: »

Jesus have you lost you mind! Whatever may be wrong with the solder joints a toaster is not the way to go about this!

As said before time to cut your loses on this one!! :rolleyes:

Think of the toaster...

No the toaster is not the way to go, the oven is the way to go.

Well if it messes up I'm not really any more out of pocket, so I've nothing else really to lose, well apart from an ipod and HD camera, but it has worked for some people.(not the guy in the 2nd video:D)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1azZWWkmSg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7e4Tvp4Lw

Poor lad, maybe i'll make a youtube video in a few days balling my eye's out;)

miralize

Maybe I'm missing something, but would this not be a safer option?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E34y9l49Zc

stuar

miralize wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but would this not be a safer option?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E34y9l49Zc

Well thats an iphone 3g/3gs, the board is totally different than the iphone4.

Iphone4



http://notebooks.com/2010/06/23/teardown-of-the-iphone-4/

Plus I think my board may have a few cracked solders and not on the same chip, so its a do or die.
http://forum.gsmhosting.com/vbb/archive/t-1263501.html

Some people with the exact same problem resolved it with online update or simply changing the battery, I'll try a battery first even though I think its more complicated than that, restored it a few times, no joy.

stuar

Feck it, I'm doing the reflow now, will post back in an hour or so.

stuar

A word of advice to anybody trying this DONT, my phone is stuck in DFU and the lcd dispay hasent shown a flicker of life since I re-assembled it, itunes recognises it but no restore 1601 error amongst others, tried iReb etc, no luck.

chicken fingers

stuar wrote: »

A word of advice to anybody trying this DONT, my phone is stuck in DFU and the lcd dispay hasent shown a flicker of life since I re-assembled it, itunes recognises it but no restore 1601 error amongst others, tried iReb etc, no luck.

I think people here were just messing with you.
The apple mania has gone too far when you are sticking your iphone board in an oven.
Thats a trick for old, useless electronics where you CBA doing it properly and you couldnt care if it gets destroyed. (which is much more likely than melting and successfully magically rejoining any cracked soldered joints.)

partyatmygaff

chicken fingers wrote: »

stuar wrote: »

A word of advice to anybody trying this DONT, my phone is stuck in DFU and the lcd dispay hasent shown a flicker of life since I re-assembled it, itunes recognises it but no restore 1601 error amongst others, tried iReb etc, no luck.

I think people here were just messing with you.
The apple mania has gone too far when you are sticking your iphone board in an oven.
Thats a trick for old, useless electronics where you CBA doing it properly and you couldnt care if it gets destroyed. (which is much more likely than melting and successfully magically rejoining any cracked soldered joints.)

I've successfully reflowed PCBs before. It's not magic and it's not too far fetched to say that it's possible using an oven.

stuar

Well it was dead as a phone anyway, ipod and HD video were great, now they're not.

I actually came across something as the oven was cooling "dont reflow iphone4 in oven, it will destroy baseband chip:o"

I'm going to pull it apart again, recheck all connections because there's a flicker of life in there somewhere, it's recognised by itunes, just nothing on the screen, not even the apple logo, having looked further into this, this is another fairly common problem, that a few have sorted with simply leaving it a few days and recharging it.

I'm not too optimistic at this stage, but it was worth a go....again!