Broken Engagement - Returning the ring protocol

blacklawlessd

Hi All,

I recently broke off the engagement with my fiancee.

There seems to be conflicting advice on the web about what the protocol is in relation to the engagement ring.

We both paid for the engagement ring - I told her what my budget was for getting a ring, and she went and picked out a more expensive one, adding the balance herself. The ring was made by a specialist jeweller.

Because I broke off the engagement, much of the advice I've seen is that she keeps the ring, while on a couple of websites, it says that the ring should be returned.

Before anyone accuses me of being callous, I ask because family members are wrecking my head about this. Personally I couldn't care what happens to the ring, as its a small price to pay for not spending your life in an unhappy relationship!

n900guy

blacklawlessd wrote: »

Hi All,

I recently broke off the engagement with my fiancee.

...

Because I broke off the engagement, much of the advice I've seen is that she keeps the ring, while on a couple of websites, it says that the ring should be returned.

I don't think there is any "rule". If you want it finished, tell her you want the ring returned as it was based on you getting married. It's not compensation for her being upset or anything like it. Get the money back, let her buy it off you.

Better yet, send her the bill for what you paid.

The only correct "protocol" is that she would voluntarily return the ring as it's inappropriate and weird to have an engagement ring for a wedding that will not happen. However, it depends on whether she understands such things or not.

beertons

She pays you back your share. If you went 50/50, then she has to cough up half the price.

Toots

Hmmm, I think a lot of it depends on circumstances. You say you ended the relationship, was she expecting it?

I'd usually say if it's the girl that does the dumping then she should give back the ring (providing the guy paid for it), if the guy does the dumping then let the girl keep the ring (unless she did something awful like cheating and so was really at fault for the relationship ending).

Your situation is kinda different though. I suppose it would be down to how she took the break up, if she didn't see it coming and was totally and utterly devastated, it would be very much like twisting the knife if you turned around and asked her for the ring back/money to pay for your half. Honestly I'd tell your family to back off, it's hard enough ending relationships without being hassled about trivial things.

HellFireClub

I'd be of the view that what you do with the ring is something that should be entirely between yourself and the girl you just broke up with, and your family should be told to mind their own business and keep their noses out of this particular aspect of the fact that the two of you will not be proceeding with a wedding.

Break up's like this are hard enough without families interfering in something that has absolutely nothing to do with them, insofar as what either of you decide to do with the ring is concerned. Of course they should be concerned for you and supporting you but they are crossing the line in my opinion coaxing you to add fuel to a fire here when you seem to be fairly indifferent yourself as to what happens the ring.

blacklawlessd

Toots* wrote: »

Hmmm, I think a lot of it depends on circumstances. You say you ended the relationship, was she expecting it?

I don't think she was expecting it. Its a long story, and without going into it, there were 3 major deal breakers, that I tried working around/resolve over the past year. There was no compromise, or working with me, so I reluctantly brought it to an end.

antiskeptic

blacklawlessd wrote: »

I recently broke off the engagement with my fiancee.

Commiserations. Although you could take the view that the engagement period was successful in that it brought to light whether you two should go the full way and get married.

Personally I couldn't care what happens to the ring, as its a small price to pay for not spending your life in an unhappy relationship!

If it were me I'd cut my losses. But if you decide to progress on it being returned/paid for, bear in mind that the ring resale value would be but a small fraction of what you paid for it. Jewellers are interested in selling diamonds, not buying them. If deciding to split the costs it wouldn't be fair to seek what you yourself contributed to the purchase price. Yet another (more pragmatic) reason to let sleeping dogs lie.

AoifeCork

If you two were in a committed, loving relationship that led to an engagement in the first place, can you not meet up and discuss this like adults? If not now, then in a couple months when the dust has cleared? Unless there has been some major conflict/cheating/lying/deceit... etc... then you should be able to decide what happens with the ring between you.. would you not agree?

Did you or she do something to cause the split? or is the love just gone? If you both still care about each other, ring her or meet up with her to discuss the engagement ring. That's what my advice would be

Cavehill Red

There are legal precedents in a number of jurisdictions, including quite a few US states, that an engagement ring amounts to a contract to marry, and if there is no longer any intent to marry then the contract is broken and the ring should be returned. I'm not aware of anyone testing that in Ireland, but nevertheless it seems sensible as a procedure in such a sad scenario.

I was engaged once to a girl and we both broke it off at different times. When it was my doing, I didn't ask for the ring. When it was her doing, I did.

If she broke the contract to marry, she is not entitled to keep the ring. If you broke the contract to marry, it's a different story. That's my understanding of it anyway. And as I say, those laws are unlikely to apply here (or rather, there is no precedent that I'm aware of here.)

I don't know why she'd want to keep it (other than monetary value) as a memento of a failed relationship. But if she does want to keep it, and you were the sole cause of the engagement ending, then it would seem a little cruel to me to insist on its return. It's a sad time for all concerned.

John Mason

^^^^

this.

you broke the contract of marraige by law she can keep the ring (i think)

anyway, if you dont care what happens to the ring - tell your family to feck off.

Its up to you what happens not there. Interferring families do my head in - tell them to butt out that it is nothing to do with them

stargazer 68

If you dont care what happens to the ring then tell your family to mind their own!

Fattes

No real protocall on this but a couple of examples

US courts have defined the ring as part of a contract and the person who has paid rightfully ownes it untill the wedding day where ownership transfers to the bride.



Cant see why she would want to keep it to be honest but each to their own, If I was you I would tell the family to F*&K Off and mind their own. Your life your money your choices.

Gilda Fortune

I would just put it down to experience and forget about it .
presuming of course your not paying back a loan on the ring.

I would never bother myself with such trivial things as money and tit for tat crap.

opinion guy

blacklawlessd wrote: »

I don't think she was expecting it. Its a long story, and without going into it, there were 3 major deal breakers, that I tried working around/resolve over the past year. There was no compromise, or working with me, so I reluctantly brought it to an end.

Well I'm forced to ask here - if there were 3 major deal breakers why did you get engaged in the first place ? I'm inclined to think that if you went into it knowing it wasn't going to work for you that this is mostly your own fault.
Therefore whilst I generally don't agree with this 'the girl should keep it if the guy breaks it off line', if this girl is very upset out of this situation of your creation it does seem like insisting on a ring back would be twisting the knife - no ?

Its kind of up to you whether you wish to upset her more, or call this an expensive lesson in not getting engaged to people in a relationship where you have 3 major deal breakers. Tell yer family to mind their own damn business (er unless you borrowed the money from them!)

tinkerbell

An engagement ring is a contract to marry. If the marriage does not happen, it should be given back to the person who paid for it.

HellFireClub

Fattes wrote: »

No real protocall on this but a couple of examples

US courts have defined the ring as part of a contract and the person who has paid rightfully ownes it untill the wedding day where ownership transfers to the bride.

I wouldn't be going down the legal route with it either because you will remain connected to the problem possibly for years if you do that. I'd say if you are indifferent about it, let her keep it. The price of it will come back around to you at some stage, karma and all that!

MrTsSnickers

Why is your family so adamant to get the ring back? I don't really see why it's any of their concern, anyhew, I'd say let her keep it, it seems to me that if you're not that bothered, you shouldn't put the extra associated stress on yourself, in an already stressful time.

Benny Cake

Why not just tell your family she gave you the 50% she owed and everything is all square.. This gets your family off your back and gives you some head space to make up your mind yourself...

iguana

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_implications_of_a_broken_engagement.html

There is law on it in Ireland but tbh this case would be messy as you both paid for the ring. And also if you ended the relationship and she is broken-hearted by your decision demanding the ring back would be cruel, and you'd have to pay her for her contribution anyway. If things are bitter between you and you did involve solicitors, as the law allows for, things could get a whole lot more expensive than the value of the ring.

One way or another you need to tell your family to mind their own business.

n900guy

irishbird wrote: »

^^^^

this.

you broke the contract of marraige by law she can keep the ring (i think)

anyway, if you dont care what happens to the ring - tell your family to feck off.

Its up to you what happens not there. Interferring families do my head in - tell them to butt out that it is nothing to do with them

What contract? Where? There was no marriage.

Beruthiel

blacklawlessd wrote: »

I ask because family members are wrecking my head about this.

As you broke it off, leave the ring to her.
Also, why are you allowing your family to interfere? Tell them to mind their own business and butt out of your affairs.

seamus

n900guy wrote: »

What contract? Where? There was no marriage.

It's been established in law that a formal engagement is a promise - a contract in fact - of which an engagement ring forms part. The engagement ring is considered a gift given by one party to the other, on the condition that the marriage arrangement will be fulfilled. If the arrangement is not fulfilled by either party (except through death), any gifts must be returned to the other party.

If the engagement is ended by either party, the ring must be returned, simple as. It's been well established at this point, if you challenged it in court, you'd lose.

It's obviously messier if she paid for part of it. My gut feeling is that if she paid for half of it (or close to), then cut your losses. If she added a smaller amount to it (say 15% of the cost), then it would be appropriate for her to return the ring to you, and you repay her the amount that she put in.

A more rational compromise would be to try and sell the ring to a jeweller, and split whatever you get, in the same proportions that you paid for it.

You won't manage to sell it for anything approaching what you paid for it (there's not a huge market for unwanted engagement rings as many consider them bad luck), but at least you won't walk away with nothing.

allprops

Walk away Rene. Do you ask for a present back if a friendship dies. The ring is not part of a contract. It's a symbol of love at the time it was given. If you didn't love her then you lose.

professore

n900guy wrote: »

What contract? Where? There was no marriage.

Just because you don't sign a piece of paper doesn't mean you don't have a contract. Under Irish law, every time you buy something in a shop or agree anything with anyone, even verbally, you enter into a contract.

In this case there is lots of proof of a contract, assuming there are receipts.

All that aside, I would tell your family to get lost as otherwise you will end up like Principal Skinner in the Simpsons - the interfering will never end.

I hope for your sake that none of the 3 conditions were laid down by your family.

Dublin_Gunner

irishbird wrote: »

^^^^

this.

you broke the contract of marraige by law she can keep the ring (i think)

anyway, if you dont care what happens to the ring - tell your family to feck off.

Its up to you what happens not there. Interferring families do my head in - tell them to butt out that it is nothing to do with them

There was no contract as there was no marriage.

If I apply for a job, and there's a company car for the position, I don't get to keep the car if I don't get past probation...

However, I was under the impression that the ring be returned to whoever bought it.

bridetobeone

If the ring is a family heirloom then it should be returned but seeing as you both paid for it I'd have no shame in asking her to pay me my half or just cut your losses and be done, tell your Family to stop interfering. Good Luck