Sky box dead? Nope it was the LNB!

Hotblack Desiato

This was a bit of a weird one.

I have a Humax Foxsat HDR Freesat box, an old Sky non-plus box connected to an analogue DVD recorder, an FTA sat box in another room, and a Sky minidish with quad LNB. I'd put the quad LNB in myself 3-4 years ago.

Almost two weeks ago I wanted to record some red button sport off the BBC - the Humax won't record red button or non-freesat channels - and turned the Sky box on for the first time in ages. 'No satellite signal is being received' but the Humax and FTA box were perfect on all the usual channels, and the Sky box was showing normal signal strength & quality - but Network ID and Transport Stream were both showing 0000. Tried a forced software download - no change.

As the box is almost 8 years old, and hardly ever used anymore (although left plugged in - it feeds a TV upstairs through a Sky eye) I assumed the box was faulty and probably not fixable, decided I might pick up a cheap Sky box some time. I almost took the Sky box to a WEEE recycling collection last week...

Then last Friday I wanted to watch the BBC News channel, tuned it in on the Humax - nothing. All of the main BBC/ITV/Ch4 etc. were there and perfect, but some rarely watched channels were missing. The FTA box was exactly the same. Then I realised most of the radio channels were missing too. Started me thinking the Sky box wasn't faulty after all.

Found a web page http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/faqs/how-to/operating-a-pvr-with-one-input which pointed me in the right direction - all the channels I was missing were high band, horizontal polarization - so obviously an LNB fault.

Got a new LNB delivered today (ordered Sunday - thanks Tony ) and after some faffing around with realigning the dish, all channels are coming in great on all 3 boxes, there was nothing wrong with the Sky box!

It seems the Sky box needs the high band/horizontal to be working to be able to download its EPG. No EPG, no channels - even if most of the BBC, ITV, Ch4 etc. signals were actually there, after all the Humax and FTA box could tune them.

Things I learned:

1. Don't assume a receiver is faulty unless you've tested it with a known good dish/LNB/cable.

2. Don't assume an LNB is OK just because the channels you usually watch are working - try them all and all the radio channels.

3. A Sky box that can't receive the EPG can give you the impression the box is totally dead when it's not.

4. Don't assume the Sky guy aligned the dish perfectly. I got the channels which had always been weaker (Eurobird, Astra 2A, Astra 2B) to significantly improve by moving the dish a tiny bit East. The left/right adjustment had never been touched since the dish was put in. Astra 2D channels had been fine, but the others were sometimes blocky and got worse in wet weather.

5. Don't reconnect all the cables when you put a new LNB on and just assume the dish won't need re-aligning. I had to move the dish a good bit vertically because the new LNB was a lot lighter than the old. I had to disconnect all the cables to find the right one to connect the sat finder to.

6. Get a cheap sat finder for a few euro. I bought one ages ago but had never used it until now, I was really impressed by how easy it was to get the dish spot-on.

7. Leave the sat meter turned on while you re-tighten all the bolts, if the pitch of the sound drops then you've knocked the dish off a bit.

8. Don't have the dish more than 3m off the ground if you can avoid it - there's no way I'd have attempted this job if it was at roof height :eek: :pac:

Booms

Thanks. Good advice that, #3 is good to know.

The Humax will record non-freesat channels, but only by pressing the record button while on that channel. Awkward, but can be easier than having to set up an external recorder to record off the skybox output, and you then have your recording with all your other ones on your hard disc. And as far as I can remember, if while doing so, you have a timed recording on the freesat channels, it will switch over in time to record, stopping the non-freesat recording.

Just checked. When in non-freesat mode, the box will put up a message onscreen about ten minutes before a recording, asking do you want to switch over. Default reply is set to yes, so if unattended it will automatically switch, whether you are recording or not.

Hotblack Desiato

Thanks for that, but that works for regular channels, not streams. I couldn't get the BBC streams to tune in at all except for two channels with 6 small images on screen, what I wanted was the red button sport streams.

The only non-freesat 'proper' channel I'd be interested in is Newstalk radio! There are many news channels on freesat which are better than Sky News.

I read another thread here today about how someone managed to get a Panasonic TV with built-in sat tuner to tune the streams by inputting the specific SSIDs, it couldn't find them on a normal scan of the transponder. Don't know if manually inputting the SSIDs is possible on the Humax, but recording them in analogue off the Sky box is sufficient for my needs (MotoGP qualifying!) so I've no need to find out, now

Booms

Glad you're sorted

fat-tony

ninja900 wrote: »

Thanks for that, but that works for regular channels, not streams. I couldn't get the BBC streams to tune in at all except for two channels with 6 small images on screen, what I wanted was the red button sport streams.

The only non-freesat 'proper' channel I'd be interested in is Newstalk radio! There are many news channels on freesat which are better than Sky News.

I read another thread here today about how someone managed to get a Panasonic TV with built-in sat tuner to tune the streams by inputting the specific SSIDs, it couldn't find them on a normal scan of the transponder. Don't know if manually inputting the SSIDs is possible on the Humax, but recording them in analogue off the Sky box is sufficient for my needs (MotoGP qualifying!) so I've no need to find out, now

Assuming what you have is the Humax Foxsat PVR, you might be interested in some or all of the firmware mods which allow you to transfer files to/from the box from PC. The bundle also includes a channel editor which allows you to "unhide" the BBC streams and display them in the EPG and record them. Also allows you to include non-Freesat channels in the Freesat line-up (no EPG though) so it saves you going into non-Freesat mode. The editor is useful, but has its drawbacks as you may have to temporarily disable, then re-enable it if there are significant changes in the channel line-up (such as when BBC HD and BBC1 HD changed transponder settings recently). If you're into a bit of modding, have a look on this forum http://www.avforums.com/forums/freesat/1433195-media-file-server-bundle-foxsat-hdr-release-3-a.html

lucernarian

If you include the non-freesat channels in the freesat lineup, I assume you mean you can see the non-freesat channels in the same channel list without accessing some "non-freesat mode" option in the menu?

That would be handy, any other channels added *cough*saorsat*cough* could be easily viewed without losing the freesat EPG for the UK channels.

fat-tony

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If you include the non-freesat channels in the freesat lineup, I assume you mean you can see the non-freesat channels in the same channel list without accessing some "non-freesat mode" option in the menu?

Yes - I have SKY News on 5003 and STV HD on 5002, which are just above 101 (BBC 1). Then above those I have the BBC Stream 0 to Stream 6.

Satellite channels only, I'm afraid, and then only those scanned in in Freesat and non-Freesat mode on the Humax box. The editor works by copying out the existing Humax channel list from flash to a file which you download to your PC and edit. After editing the file is copied back to the file system on the Humax and it's restored to flash at boot time.

lucernarian

The foxsat is a satellite STB I thought, I would assume it could only handle DVB-S satellite channels?

Apogee

fat-tony wrote: »

Also allows you to include non-Freesat channels in the Freesat line-up (no EPG though) so it saves you going into non-Freesat mode. [/URL]

Can you do this for non-Freesat channels through a Diseqc switch e.g. can you add channels from Astra 19E onto the Humax Freesat EPG line-up?

If you can, then next question is - can you see the standard DVB-SI 7-day EPG for those 19E channels integrated along with the Freesat EPG?

If yes to both of the above, the it would be a fairly neat solution for combined Freesat/Saorsat setup.

fat-tony

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The foxsat is a satellite STB I thought, I would assume it could only handle DVB-S satellite channels?

Eh - yes, that's what I answered:)

fat-tony

Apogee wrote: »

Can you do this for non-Freesat channels through a Diseqc switch e.g. can you add channels from Astra 19E onto the Humax Freesat EPG line-up?

I would assume so, but I've no practical experience of using the Humax in this way.

Apogee wrote: »

If you can, then next question is - can you see the standard DVB-SI 7-day EPG for those 19E channels integrated along with the Freesat EPG?

Again - no experience of this, but my hunch would be that this would not happen. The Freesat EPG schedule data is built up from a specific transponder using an MHEG app and deals with compressed programme info. It certainly reads the now and next data for the current channel, but I don't know if it would populate the whole schedule.

Apogee wrote: »

If yes to both of the above, the it would be a fairly neat solution for combined Freesat/Saorsat setup.

The downside to the editor, though, is that it messes up the automatic maintenance of the Freesat channel allocations. Channels which newly arrive on the EPG are not picked up, nor are channel moves or deletes. If there are significant channel changes you have to delete the stored file off the file system using FTP or Samba, then re-boot, get the new file, re-do your edits - you get the idea! It's ok if you are into regular tweaking.

Apogee

You don't have a diseqc switch to test it out?

Or even do a dummy run without a Diseqc switch in place and pretend you're using a Diseqc switch in the Humax setup i.e. scan in a 28E TP onto the virtual 19E and see what happens?

What do you see in the EPG for Sky News on 5003? Can you see the Now and Next data or is it completely blank?

lucernarian

fat-tony wrote: »

Eh - yes, that's what I answered:)

I was confused why you pointed it out in the first place! I thought it was obvious that a Freesat HD box was for satellite reception only;)

fat-tony

Funny when one reads "saorsat" and your brain interprets as Saorview:o - my apologies! Must have been all that coughing you were doing that distracted me:D

fat-tony

Apogee wrote: »

You don't have a diseqc switch to test it out?

Or even do a dummy run without a Diseqc switch in place and pretend you're using a Diseqc switch in the Humax setup i.e. scan in a 28E TP onto the virtual 19E and see what happens?

What do you see in the EPG for Sky News on 5003? Can you see the Now and Next data or is it completely blank?

No diseqc - only Astra sat available where my Humax is "plumbed in".
In non-Freesat mode on Astra you only get now/next info on all channels as SKY and Freesat have the full schedule info locked up in proprietary transponders. I would imagine, though, that in non-Freesat mode you would get the full schedule from the DVB EIT tables on 19E for example.

Problem is, in Freesat mode the displayed EPG is populated only from the Freesat transponders so I get no "now / next" data for SKY News - nothing other than the channel name and number and date/time is displayed.

So, in brief, in non-Freesat mode you could probably get a combination of Saorsat and German TV channels with a fully populated EPG, or a full Saorsat EPG with now/next data for UK channels. The Humax will only do manual recording in this mode, so no booking programs from the EPG and no Series Link.

I've posted several times during the initial euphoria on Saorsat, urging caution about the "crippled" function list on this box in non-Freesat mode when folks were suggesting it might be a good "one box solution" for UK and Irish satellite reception.

I think it's a brilliant Freesat box - excellent at accurate recording and series linking. It's got a few minor niggles, but nothing I can't live with.

Proper integration of EPG data across multiple satellites really needs a more sophisticated approach - probably a HTPC or similar. I use DVBviewer to integrate my Saorview and satellite reception on PC. This now supports MHEG and so equals Windows Media Centre in capability, but it's still not ready for use in the living room as a Freesat or SKY box replacement!

Apogee

fat-tony wrote: »

Problem is, in Freesat mode the displayed EPG is populated only from the Freesat transponders so I get no "now / next" data for SKY News - nothing other than the channel name and number and date/time is displayed. !

Just to be pedantic on this - with your hydrid programme line-up, with Sky News listed alongside the Freesat channels, even if you go to Sky News, the Now and Next data still doesn't appear on the EPG grid?

fat-tony

Apogee wrote: »

Just to be pedantic on this - with your hydrid programme line-up, with Sky News listed alongside the Freesat channels, even if you go to Sky News, the Now and Next data still doesn't appear on the EPG grid?

Correct and right! There's an outside possibility I copied across one of the variations of Sky News without a now/next EPG entry, so I'll re-load the table and get back to you.

14:30 update - I've two variants of SKY News (UK one and Irish ads). Neither displays now/next in Freesat mode.

Apogee

fat-tony wrote: »

14:30 update - I've two variants of SKY News (UK one and Irish ads). Neither displays now/next in Freesat mode.

Ah well, that's that then. I suppose there's an extremely slim chance that if the 7-day data was present, it might appear but very, very unlikely. Pity, it would have been a pretty decent setup, even with the occasional hassle of channels moving around etc.

Thanks for trying anyway.