How realistic is Nicholas Roche's Irish Independent diary?

Slideshowbob

I'd have to doubt its genuineness.

As mentioned on boards before he doesn't actually write it: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71052456

I struggle to read it myself given it's way over-elaborate for a pro cyclist and I know it's not all coming from Nicholas.

He is a great Irish cyclist but are we supposed to believe they are his words when he struggles to put 140 characters together, eg:

http://twitter.com/#!/nicholasroche/status/90809496921845762

"Fast stage! Exiting finish!"

http://twitter.com/#!/nicholasroche/status/89007449486528513

"Long wet day! Legs felling better."

Should the articles not state they have a ghost writer?

Is there not some deceit going on by Irish Independent to the Irish public etc to merely state "by Nicholas Roche" on each article?

Consequently, does this reflect badly on Roche and the sport of cycling?

niceonetom

Have we not done this before?

Slideshowbob

niceonetom wrote: »

Have we not done this before?

Tom

Are you trying to stifle possible discussion on the subject? Why may I ask?

Do you have an opinion on the subject yourself?

Would you read the article every day and what you think of it?

Is it not worthy of discussion given the TDF is on and there may be renewed interest in Roche and the Tour by browsers of here and the Indo?

niceonetom

I'm in no position to stifle anything. I was just struck by a strong sense of deja-vu.

DirkVoodoo

But as you say Bob, Twitter is limited to 140 characters. Furthermore, most people use twitter on a mobile device rather than a laptop. My own tweets tend to be a struggle with brevity and autocorrect. The man's twitter is hardly conclusive evidence.

However, even if he is simply talking over the phone to a journalist, so what? He is racing every day, doing his best to conserve energy and recover in the evenings, so sitting down and thumbing through a thesaurus for another way to say "bad crashes in the bunch" might not be foremost on his mind.

We get a glimpse of what it is like for a pro in the peloton, and an Irish one at that. Whether or not he writes every word is not something that would concern me and obviously if a ghost writer exists, he is happy enough to let Nico put his name on it for the good of promoting the sport at home.

niceonetom

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Should the articles not state they have a ghost writer?

Slideshowbob wrote: »

If you are only copping on that his Indo pieces are ghost written you don't know much about bike racing. Do you really think a Tour rider has and hour or two to spare after each stage (whatwith massage, food, media, chilling/relaxing, transfers, injuries, equipment, friends, family) and has the interest in penning/typing a novel?

Yeah, we're going over old ground here.

Eamonnator

It's deja-vu all over again

bobbysands81

I'm sure about a week ago that Roche said he was sitting in the team bus writing "this article".

Jawgap

I like it - it adds the enjoyment of watching the race because there's a behind-the-scenes element.

Maybe it is a bit mis-leading to have it ghosted, but if the journalist is just putting some shape to Nico's thoughts in the interests of readability, I don't think its that big a sin.

kennyb3

Yeah roche not handwriting and proof reading articles massively discredits cycling.

Cant believe they are talking about Kolobnev while this scandal is going on. Shocking!

morana

lets be realistic...he finishes a stage of the tour and then he is expected to sit down and write a long cloumn about the race it takes the lads here 2 days to write a report about the Swords/Orwell/Ravens league races....of course he has a ghost writer but I am sure ger rings him and gets the guts of the day and puts it together....

I read them all I think they are excellent as most of my non cycling colleagues do.

Beasty

morana wrote: »

it takes some of the lads here 2 days to write a report about the Swords/Orwell/Ravens league races

FYP;)

BTW, I don't have a ghost writer

A bit more seriously though, this is no different from what pretty much every newspaper does with its "star" columnists who are current professional sportspersons. Some are accurate with significant input from the sportspeson, in other cases the sportsperson will pretty much leave it go the ghost writer based on his/her own observations. How realistic are the diaries - it's largely deopendent on the quality of the journalist and the extent toi which the sportsman contributes In this particular case I don't claim any particular knowledge of the arrangements.

Lumen

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I struggle to read it myself given it's way over-elaborate for a pro cyclist and I know it's not all coming from Nicholas.

I feel the same way.

It's very difficult to get a handle on Nico, he always comes across like he's thinking about how the words are going to be interpreted. Maybe that's because he's French. I remember his interview on the Late Late last year (?) when he hardly got a word in edgeways, thinking afterwards that I had no more idea about Nico than I had at the start, though I guess that was more an issue with inept interviewing.

Since Twitter became mainstream people have become used to getting things from the horses mouth, warts and all (to mix metaphors). Perhaps the newspapers just aren't ready for the lightly edited ramblings of a pro cyclist.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

It's very difficult to get a handle on Nico, he always comes across like he's thinking about how the words are going to be interpreted.

I've interviewed him before and I got that impression. Not sure why it is, but I think there's an innate cautiousness there.

Late Late Show was odd. His Dad kind of hogged the limelight.

I read the columns. I like em.

Guybrush T

el tonto wrote: »

I read the columns. I like em.

Me too, you'd have to be pretty unworldly to think it was Nico's unadulterated work, but equally I think it's pretty clear that the thoughts are Nico's.

Having said that, I'm not sure this year's are as good as last year's maybe he got some grief for the wheelgate one and is deliberately toning it down?

Pat Kavanagh

Slideshowbob wrote: »

it's way over-elaborate for a pro cyclist

I think it's a bit much to suggest that being a top-level sports-person assumes that you can't write well. Did you ever hear of a guy called Paul Kimmage?

Slideshowbob

Pat Kavanagh wrote: »

I think it's a bit much to suggest that being a top-level sports-person assumes that you can't write well. Did you ever hear of a guy called Paul Kimmage?

Course I heard of Paul Kimmage - I was able to read his whole book and enjoyed it immensely thanks!!

amjon.

Nico went to Blackrock College, one of the better fee paying schools in the country. He is probably educated very well up to second level and no doubt would have gone on to have a successful third level education if he had decided to. His English is by no means elaborate and it's well within the realms of possibility that he pens the articles himself.
I would not use Twitter or Facebook posts as benchmark for judging someone’s intellect. I have friends on there that are studying for PhD's that come across as semi-literate, alcohol swilling baboons.

Slideshowbob

amjon. wrote: »

Nico went to Blackrock College, one of the better fee paying schools in the country. He is probably educated very well up to second level and no doubt would have gone on to have a successful third level education if he had decided to. His English is by no means elaborate and it's well within the realms of possibility that he pens the articles himself.
I would not use Twitter or Facebook posts as benchmark for judging someone’s intellect. I have friends on there that are studying for PhD's that come across as semi-literate, alcohol swilling baboons.

That's all well and good but it's been established by previous posts in this thread that he doesn't actually write the pieces himself.

amjon.

Slideshowbob wrote: »

That's all well and good but it's been established by previous posts in this thread that he doesn't actually write the pieces himself.

Really? The journalist in question isn't up to much so.

Sundy

Some people would moan about anything! If you dont like it, dont read it and leave the rest of us in peace.

Thanks

Slideshowbob

Sundy wrote: »

Some people would moan about anything! If you dont like it, dont read it and leave the rest of us in peace.

Thanks

Sorry, but if I read a newspaper I hope to read fact, if I read a novel I can expect fiction.

If something is not actually written by someone in a newspaper shouldn't that be acknowledged?

To those above who referred to other examples of sportspeople having unacknowledged ghost writers, any examples would be appreciated - thanks.

Sundy

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Sorry, but if I read a newspaper I hope to read fact, if I read a novel I can expect fiction.

If something is not actually written by someone in a newspaper shouldn't that be acknowledged?

To those above who referred to other examples of sportspeople having unacknowledged ghost writers, any examples would be appreciated - thanks.

Go away and complain to Easons about all the autobiographies that are ghost written.

So are you suggesting Roches diary is fiction?

joker77

I enjoy it, but something I was wondering on my cycle home from work today - is there any ever mention of this Directeur Sportif? Don't think I even know his name...

petethedrummer

http://www.presscouncil.ie/
http://www.presscouncil.ie/making-a-complaint.24.html
info@pressombudsman.ie
http://www.presscouncil.ie/making-a-complaint/complain-online.1088.html

Let us know how you get on.

c0rk3r

This is a strange one alright, not because of nicolas roche and his mysterious ghost writer and his ramblings in the independent. No, whats more interesting here is whats your goal here Slideshowbob? what are you trying to achieve by doing this?The only people who can answer you are the journalists at the independent. Have you tried contacting them yet ?

Undoubtably we know you have a hidden agenda / ulterior motivate

We know already that you;ve tried to anonymously complain to the press ombudsman about this matter.

But why? Why is this so important to you? Its sounds like a petty personal feud.

It is interesting

Slideshowbob

Sundy wrote: »

Go away and complain to Easons about all the autobiographies that are ghost written.

So are you suggesting Roches diary is fiction?

Only Nicholas Roche knows how much is fiction.

Going by this thread the "by Nicholas Roche" part appears to be!!

Slideshowbob

c0rk3r wrote: »

This is a strange one alright, not because of nicolas roche and his mysterious ghost writer and his ramblings in the independent. No, whats more interesting here is whats your goal here Slideshowbob? what are you trying to achieve by doing this?The only people who can answer you are the journalists at the independent. Have you tried contacting them yet ?

Undoubtably we know you have a hidden agenda / ulterior motivate

We know already that you;ve tried to anonymously complain to the press ombudsman about this matter.

But why? Why is this so important to you? Its sounds like a petty personal feud.

It is interesting

I want the truth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

Would half a million readers a day not be entitled to it too??

J Madone

I enjoy reading it, i heard that he takes a call from the writer and he puts it into print. He has input into it
it's not all made up

Beasty

Slideshowbob wrote: »

To those above who referred to other examples of sportspeople having unacknowledged ghost writers, any examples would be appreciated - thanks.

George Best and Matt Busby

I'd be surprised if many current sportspersons with newspaper columns don't use ghost writers. The only major sport I can think of that is relatively "clean" in this respect is probably cricket, which seems to attract talented writers

Ultimately I don't see the issue. Bob you started another thread elsewhere on Boards about the principle with the Roche Independent column specifically in mind, and got your answer there. It happens all the time, and there is nothing considered particularly wrong about it. There's little point in revisiting that ground in this thread.

You're asking how realistic it is, not about the morals, so let's keep to the topic;)

ebowdia

I also think they are good to read, a bit raw and unedited.

I've missed a few this last week though and can't seem to find links to any but the most current entry,,,,, is it possibly to still read any of the older entries?