Annoyed over univ application

LegacyUser

I wanted to go anonymous with this because I feel a little silly writing it and its personal.
I'm a mature student, and just finished my degree. I applied to a well known Dublin college for a masters three months before their deadline date and did not get a whisper back from them. I finished top of my year with a 1.1.
My friend, who is considerably younger than I am, filled out the basics for his PAC application, and didnt even send on the supportive documentation, a few days before the deadline. They called him for an interview a few days later.
I emailed the relevant course coordinator at the time and she told me they were still shortlisting. Of course I am peeved to have basically been fobbed off in that email, but I left it until my offcial results came back. When they did I again emailed her asking if my top result would change my application (trying to get her to consider me at least for a cancellation or a last place), to which she didnt reply.
Mainly I am annoyed because of the €40 and effort I took applying through PAC to hear nothing back. I may aswell have wiped my ass with the money and set it on fire.
My question is have I done something wrong? I feel very discouraged from continuing at postgrad, God knows it was hard enough to go back to education.
Thanks for reading.

LegacyUser

I should also add I now will have to leave the country to continue my education... I know Im probably priveleged given the way things are but Im doing the best I can and I feel Ive been treated unfairly. How would you guys respond to them? Or would you just leave it?

Jerrica

I'm an Administrator for an MSc course in a Unviersity - reading through your post it actually seems entirely plausible that the course you applied for was the one that I work with so I just wnated to let you know what it's like from our side.

PAC is entirely separate to the University system. To be frank, we hate it. It's an extra set of hoops that the students need to jump through and the money goes straight to them for "Administration" and not to us. The Unviersity I work fo ris actually taking steps to move away from the PAC system because it's outdated, convoluted and entirely user unfriendly. In short, it's a piece of crap.

The course that I work with enrolls about 20 students per year. So far we have had 86 applicants for the course spread over the last five months or so. Early enrollment doesn't guarantee anything unfortunately because we know that application numbers will be high so we wait until we can afford to pick the cream of the crop. It's a harsh truth but a necessary procedure.

When we recruit we're also not guaranteed that everyone we offer places to will take them up so we're slow to give outright dismissals because someone who is lower down the list may be called forward at a later date if we've had a number of declines. also, from my own personal point of view, if the interview panel deems that someone is not suitable I'm not given a reason why, and I'm not always told who is to be left on the "maybe" list and who isn't. I don't like sending forward misinformation so I'm caught with no choice but to do nothing.

We do appreciate the time it takes for people to send in their applications, but given the number of people who apply for most courses I would only encourage you not to take it personally. Sometimes the decision to call people forward can be made on seemingly frivolous reasons but it's not something to take personally.

I make a big effort to reply to everyone who gets in touch with me but sometimes mails can slip through the net. I manage four different courses so you can imagine how many query emails I get on a daily basis.

Send the contact person another email, gently enquiring if there is any more information they can provide. If you still hear nothing back then it's probably not a good sign, but I know from my own case it's usually nothing more than I haven't actually got any news to tell them, and it's not a 'fobbing off' at all.

Emme

Jerrica wrote: »

Early enrollment doesn't guarantee anything unfortunately because we know that application numbers will be high so we wait until we can afford to pick the cream of the crop. It's a harsh truth but a necessary procedure.

The OP came top of the class and got a I.I. Surely that's the cream of the crop?

To be honest, I think the OP is better off continuing his or her education abroad. OK, it's a pain in the ass having to leave, but there might be more opportunities for the OP at the end of the postgrad abroad. It's likely that he or she would have had to go abroad anyway if not now then after the postgrad in Ireland.

mdebets

Emme wrote: »

The OP came top of the class and got a I.I. Surely that's the cream of the crop?

But there might be more people ahead of him, who were even better than him (from different universities).

Jerrica

Emme wrote: »

The OP came top of the class and got a I.I. Surely that's the cream of the crop?

It depends what discipline they achieved it in and its relativity to the Postgraduate course. If someone was to present with a more relative degree qualification they'll get called up first.

LegacyUser

well I never claimed to be cream of the crop, but a response would have been nice. Just what the hell do PAC do then, act as a clearing house basically? Does the uni actually even hear from the candidate then? Forty euro is too much for the service of being ignored.
Why is it better I continue abroad? Leaving my family and friends isnt exactly top of my list.

I understand of course the level of applicant is probably really high but how does one explain the scenario of my friend getting called for interview who didnt have as high grades as myself and didnt make half the effort with application? Possibly an age discrimination maybe.

Its very frustrating but I certainly expect a response to my email and a certain level of respect as a human being, whether that be a fobbing off or not, Jerrica you need to face up to the demands of your job.

....but maybe this is why Trinity have the reputation they do...

Jerrica

anonacademic22 wrote: »

well I never claimed to be cream of the crop, but a response would have been nice.Just what the hell do PAC do then, act as a clearing house basically?

Not a clearing house, just a storage space. The University Administrators don't get direct notification of applications, it usually passes through Graduate Studies and a host of other people first.

I understand of course the level of applicant is probably really high but how does one explain the scenario of my friend getting called for interview who didnt have as high grades as myself and didnt make half the effort with application? Possibly an age discrimination maybe.

Age probably has nothing to do with it. Have you emailed the Administrator directly for clarification or are you hoping to get answers from people on the internet who know nothing about your situation?

Its very frustrating but I certainly expect a response to my email and a certain level of respect as a human being, whether that be a fobbing off or not, Jerrica you need to face up to the demands of your job.

Thanks for your advice but I take my job and its demands very seriously. And if someone with your attitude was to present themself to me I'd find it very hard to recommend that they get any serious consideration for a place. Respect works in two directions.

It's the summer time, people are away on holidays, chill out and email them again for goodness sake.

nothing

Sometimes it's not just about grades, it could be (as mentioned already) that your course was less desirable, or that others had work experience in the area, or had more passion for the course, it's not just about your final year results!

I would suggest sending them an email asking for feedback on your application, and if they can let you know why you weren't considered.

Janet1986

I have a friend who applied to university twice for the same course (mid wifery nursing)

She is in her 40's and in my opinion i think it coud be her age that's coming against her.

She has broke her back and really wants this career. The problem is the course is 4yrs so by the time she has completed the course she will be nearly 50!

dellas1979

OP - mention the word "transparency" and see where it will get you.
Applications for anything must be dealt with by admissions/staff using transparency. You should get a letter stating acceptance or not. There has to be a trail of why/why not accept someone for auditing purposes. Cant just be admissions/academic staff saying "nah not going to take him/her into the course" and never hear from the college again. College can get into major trouble for this.

It will be noted on your form why you have not been accepted or IF you are on a waiting list. Ive worked in a college admissions office, and it can be very easy to fob off applicants. The issue is that most academic staff are on holidays right now, so the admissions office have no one to ask. Course leaders etc should check in every so often though to see what is going on with their course, but more often than not dont bother (leave the applicant there sweating).

You should contact the admissions for this course directly and see what is written on your form. Dont be a prcik about it, but just firm. If the admissons office cant do anything, talk to the school office. Grant season etc is coming up after all, and no better excuse to want to know where you application is.

LegacyUser

Thanks Dellas1979, good idea.

Jerrica, I think you just gave us all a taste of what we're up against. Theres no need to be bitchy, you have already stated you dont reply to peoples emails when it doesnt suit you, which is my main complaint. I'll tell you again as you keep asking, Yes, Ive emailed the relevant party, and have not heard back. Why should I email again and risk affecting any future application? Tell us this: Do you reply to emails from people asking why they have not been accepted on a course? and.. Have you ever blatantly lied to an applicant telling them you were still shortlisting when you were in fact busy interviewing for the last round of offers.

Of course you dont have to answer these questions, its an anonymous internet conversation after all

sparkling sea

anonacademic22 wrote: »

Thanks Dellas1979, good idea.

Jerrica, I think you just gave us all a taste of what we're up against. Theres no need to be bitchy, you have already stated you dont reply to peoples emails when it doesnt suit you, which is my main complaint. I'll tell you again as you keep asking, Yes, Ive emailed the relevant party, and have not heard back. Why should I email again and risk affecting any future application? Tell us this: Do you reply to emails from people asking why they have not been accepted on a course? and.. Have you ever blatantly lied to an applicant telling them you were still shortlisting when you were in fact busy interviewing for the last round of offers.

Of course you dont have to answer these questions, its an anonymous internet conversation after all

As a mature student I understand exactly what you mean and how frustrating a lack of response of any kind can be, however, Jerrica has IMO been more then helpful is explaining the way the system works, why it works the way it works and all this explained in a polite manner.

Thanks Jerrica - OP I think your being a bit unfair here

Jerrica

OP I'm not going to respond to your questions. I'm beginning to feel like I'm on trial here when I was simply trying to give you an explanation for why you may have been given the responses you were. I cannot speak on another Administrator's behalf (I'm fairly certain I haven't in fact dealt with you before) and I have no reason to justify myself to you at all. I have not once been bitchy. Perhaps if you took your query off the internet and emailed/ called the Administrator once more (if they have anything like the workload I do then it's quite possible the original was missed, it happens) but dropped the offensive stance and took a more polite tone you never know what may happen.

LegacyUser

Whilst I do appreciate the time taken to post on this thread jerrica, I dont consider your replies enlightening in the slightest....and telling me to stop the offensive, do you realise my comment was in response to you telling me I have an attitude. You gathered I have an 'attitude' because I was unhappy with you not responding to people when it didnt suit you, and decided to call you on it. Respect works in two ways you know. You sound like someone who likes to talk up her position, and talk down her opposition. In fairness to you though, someone has to fill that role. I accept preference is a part of your job, but indifference shouldnt be.

Again, I'll re-iterate my reason for posting, because it has gone off track. I am peeved because I was lied to and then ignored by a top university despite more than meeting requirements, and now will most likely have to emigrate.

judgefudge

Jerrica wrote: »

We do appreciate the time it takes for people to send in their applications, but given the number of people who apply for most courses I would only encourage you not to take it personally. Sometimes the decision to call people forward can be made on seemingly frivolous reasons but it's not something to take personally.

I make a big effort to reply to everyone who gets in touch with me but sometimes mails can slip through the net. I manage four different courses so you can imagine how many query emails I get on a daily basis.

Just to defend Jerrica, they didnt say they just ignored people when it suited them. Plus, when they're in a position where they have limited information on each application there would be very little they could say anyway.

I have also just finished a degree and have applied for a number of postgrad courses (funded ones though). I would be in the top 5 of my class roughly. Despite applying for a number of courses I have not always received confirmation of acceptance or rejection back. Its frustrating I understand, particularly when you have worked hard and would consider yourself a worthy applicant. However, such is life. You may not understand why you havent been contacted or accepted but it just may be a case that other applicants were more highly qualified, more relevant or had more experience/enthusiasm for the course.

I think you may need to remember that its not personal. I've emailed professors in my own college in the past who I know to be very attentive and good at their jobs. They have not always got back to me straight away or at all. Anytime that has happened I would email again in a polite manner and reiterate my inquiry, usually I would get a response saying that due to the high number of inquiries my email simply slipped through the net. These things happen!

I know this must be disheartening for you when times are tough. It also looks like I won't be able to study further here at the moment. I may go abroad and get some experience which may be what is necessary for me to get a call back next year! Good luck!

avalon68

anonacademic22 wrote: »

I am peeved because I was lied to and then ignored by a top university despite more than meeting requirements, and now will most likely have to emigrate.

Im afraid the amount of people who "more than meet the requirements" are probably in abundance at the moment, and your posts are coming across in a manner that suggests you feel entitled to a spot on this course. Has the deadline for notifying people passed? I ask because if the administrator had to reply to every applicant who applied to every course they administrate, they would never get anything done. People will probably all be notified if they were unsucesssful on a certain date, when all places on the course have been accepted and confirmed. Yes, not knowing is frustrating and really sucks, but, this is extremely common in academia and if you want to work in the sector, you will have to learn to deal with it.

LegacyUser

I dont want to work in academia avalon68? judgefudge Ive already said and Ill say it again I dont think for a moment I should be entitled to anything, however one would be forgiven in thinking those who work harder than others and have the medals to prove it may be ahead of the rest. Otherwise what would be the point in trying? Lets not try to blur the lines here with recession speak. Its a college course, the same rules apply whatever the volume of applicants.
The only thing Ive said Im deserving of is what I spent €40 on. An application to a college which has lied to me, and subsequently ignored me.
Ive accepted Im not getting a place. What peeves me is spending the money for this kind of treatment, I would expect more bang for my buck, even if just an email to say hard luck.

Thats all Im gonna say on this thread. Because its a storm in a teacup thats just getting dragged along now by people not reading the first post or misinterpreting posts and causing aggro.

Jerrica to you I say thanks for the input, at least you tried.

amdublin

anonacademic22 wrote: »

Jerrica, I think you just gave us all a taste of what we're up against. Theres no need to be bitchy, you have already stated you dont reply to peoples emails when it doesnt suit you, which is my main complaint.

Jerrica wrote: »

I make a big effort to reply to everyone who gets in touch with me but sometimes mails can slip through the net. I manage four different courses so you can imagine how many query emails I get on a daily

Jerrica specifically said (s)he makes an effort to mail everyone

avalon68

anonacademic22 wrote: »

Its a college course, the same rules apply whatever the volume of applicants.
The only thing Ive said Im deserving of is what I spent €40 on. An application to a college which has lied to me, and subsequently ignored me.
Ive accepted Im not getting a place. What peeves me is spending the money for this kind of treatment, I would expect more bang for my buck, even if just an email to say hard luck.

You keep saying they ignored you, and I simply asked if the deadline for replying to people has passed......because if it hasn't, they are not ignoring you -they are following "the rules"that you refer to, and plan on notifying all applicants at the same time. It would be a complete waste of time to reply to each candidate individually

dellas1979

Jerrica wrote: »

called the Administrator once more (if they have anything like the workload I do then it's quite possible the original was missed, it happens) but dropped the offensive stance and took a more polite tone you never know what may happen.

I actually find your posts quite patronising, and it is easy to see why he cannot get a response.

Your workload? You are paid to process the applications. He shouldnt have to care about YOUR workload.

You look after 1 masters course. Ive looked after a Masters course (amongst others), and if one of my applicants had a query, I made it my job to find out the answer with the head of course/department. Yes, that meant I had to get up off my chair sometimes and go to their office etc.

It happens?? Thats such as blaise response to someone who is worried about their future, and cannot get a response. Yeah you are here on a forum typing away, but you are actually not being very helpful at all...easy to see why he is frustrated.

judgefudge

Believe me I understand its frustrating not getting a response when you have put time, effort and money into applying for something. All I was trying to say is that there is stiff competition out there and you're not the only one this has happened to so try not to take it so personally. Obviously its annoying not to get a response but I don't really see where the college lied to you though...?

theg81der

Op this time of year can be crazy for admin in colleges, and I imagine worse now with cutbacks, so maybe they forgot, maybe they are short staffed, maybe they are lazy I don`t know but if you continue to email and phone you will get an answer from someone and I wouldn`t be worried about them thinking badly of you or something they won`t probably busy and a reminder wouldn`t do any harm or if they are just lazy they`ll feel bad about themselves not you so persist.

qwerty13

You are coming across as very aggressive and judgemental in the manner in which you write your posts (especially toward Jerrica). Hopefully this doesn't reflect the way that you write emails in real life, but if it is, it is worth considering that your attitude needs to be reconsidered, and could perhaps have cost you a place.

Distorted

I teach at a university outwith Ireland and it would bite your hand off for postgraduates with a first, in almost any discipline. And it has one of the best employment records for its students out there. I don't do admin (I'm ad hoc) but I deal with admin employees and I always get a reply to my emails. It just wouldn't be acceptable not to firstly acknowledge the application and thereafter to inform the student of the decision. It would be a disciplinary offence to deal with an application in such a way if it were found out. But I could not see them turning down a student with a first.

Quite surprised that you are being criticised for having an attitude when all that comes across from your posts is that you are disappointed and frustrated at other people failing to process your application. It is not you who is at fault here.

OP - with this sort of attitude I would be thinking I'd be better off abroad. Theres a whole world out there. I was looking at doing a Masters myself and some countries have lower fees than some of the more obvious places - I was looking at some places in Holland and Belguim for example. Some of the older traditionally top universities can be a bit arrogant in terms of how they deal with students and what they actually provide in terms of teaching, while some of the traditionally more middle ranking institutions are now overtaking them in terms of popularity with employers - in Continental terms, we are looking at the EU institutions as the benchmark here.

However bearing in mind that you have put in your application, I'd be phoning them and hassling them and making a right nuisance of myself - what have you got to lose?