Privately Taxed Vans Facts

K3v1nmn

I am posting this as It might save someone else the hassle of ringing around asking the same questions as myself about PRIVATELY TAXED CAR-VANS. For the record I own a Ford Focus Car-van myself, which I have taxed privately for the past 18 months for Insurance reasons.

My Questions were:

#1. Do I have to Test my van as I have it taxed privately?:

The simple answer is YES it needs to be DOE'd



#2. Can Post 2008 PRIVATELY Taxed Car-vans pay the lower rate of road tax (Carbon based system)

The simple answer is NO. They have to pay road tax based on the old Engine CC system.



Below is how I came to these Answers:

Question #1. Do I have to Test my van as I have it taxed privately?:

#1. I thought there was a loophole which meant it wasn't eligible for the NCT or DOE. I believed this because when I bought my van I had seen it mentioned on a number of forms that this was the case. I then rang the NCTS (National Car Test Service) where I was told that: "as my car was actually a van and not a car, it didn't legally require and NCT." I was then told, by the same person that: "as it was a PRIVATELY taxed van the DOE centre wouldn't touch it." She then told me I could get my van put on the NCT system and get it NCT'd, but that there was no obligation to do so. I also rang the Gards, They were unsure but advised that I get it tested. I still declined not to, as I didn't want to pay £70 for nothing. This was all fine up until now, when I decided I wanted to sell my van. I wanted to get it doe'd to try make some money back on it.
So, I emailed the RSA (they are over vehicle testing) to see if I could indeed Doe my privately taxed van. Their response was, as follows;

Dear Kevin,

Goods Vehicles are subject to roadworthiness testing under S.I. No. 771 of 2004, European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations, 2004. All goods vehicles must complete an annual roadworthiness test in a Commercial Vehicle Test Centre, regardless of how the vehicle is taxed. The motor tax category of a vehicle has no bearing on how the vehicle must be tested.

Under vehicle testing regulations, a goods vehicle (EU Categories N for motor vehicles and O for trailers) is a vehicle constructed or adapted primarily for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description whether or not it is used for such a purpose. This includes vehicles such as car vans and 4x4 vehicles converted for goods use.


The motor taxation class of a goods vehicle is not considered in Vehicle Testing Regulations and as a result has no bearing on the periodic roadworthiness testing obligations of a goods vehicle. This means that all goods vehicles, whether taxed as private or commercial (including small vans), are legally required to undergo a periodic roadworthiness test at a Vehicle Test Network centre one year after first registration and every subsequent year thereafter on the anniversary of registration.

I hope this answers your query, if you need any further information please do not hesitate in contacting our office on (091) 872600




The thoughts of upgrading my van brought me on to my next 2nd question:

#2. Can Post 2008 PRIVATELY Taxed Car-vans pay the lower rate of road tax (Carbon based system)

So I emailed the Department of the Environment, as they are over the collection of Road Tax, to ask.
This was their response:

Dear Mr #####,


Only 08 private type vehicles can be taxed on co2 emissions that pay vrt category A. As commercial vehicles pay a low VRT band C they do not qualify for the new tax rates and continue to either be taxed on engine cc for private use or unladen weight for commercial use.

Regards
Agnes O'Donoghue


I hope this is of use to someone else.

_Conrad_

The DOE requirement, while true is a load of sh!te. You should be able to do the NCT if it's taxed as a private car. I have come up against trouble with insurance due to this myself and in the case of other people



Also not qualifying fot the lower rates of tax based on VRT that was once paid is just another example of the state systems screwing us, it is unjust that it doesnt apply, i don't care what vrt was paid on it.



I've come across these answers myself but never put them up, at least you've done it now. It's not exactly "good" but at least it's there for people to see

K3v1nmn

_Conrad_ wrote: »

The DOE requirement, while true is a load of sh!te. You should be able to do the NCT if it's taxed as a private car. I have come up against trouble with insurance due to this myself and in the case of other people

You can NCT it, if you want. Well according to the NCTS lady I spoke to, you can, but I would be sceptical if you had an accident would it cover you legally. Considering it is test is for a CAR, which in legal terms is a Class A vehicle, as opposed to VAN which would be a Class C vehicle, even though its still a ford focus. I personally didn't want to go down the road of NCTing it because of the hassle, having to take time off work to do something I thought mightn't legally be worth the paper its written on. I know a test is probably better than no test, but if neither was right, why bother - That was just my view.

_Conrad_ wrote: »

Also not qualifying fot the lower rates of tax based on VRT that was once paid is just another example of the state systems screwing us, it is unjust that it doesnt apply, i don't care what vrt was paid on it.

Yeah, I naturally assumed the tax would have changed to the new system. Only for the fact I had seen it mentioned on another forum I would have gone out and bought an 08 van.
I would have been 1 angry little man if I tried tax it and was told i had to stump up an extra 300 quid for nothing!!! :mad: Especially considering we get screwed out the door with the tax on diesel and petrol:mad:

_Conrad_ wrote: »

I've come across these answers myself but never put them up, at least you've done it now. It's not exactly "good" but at least it's there for people to see

Yeah id pretty much seen these answers too, but when its "I know a lad ..." I just thought I'd get the answer from the horses mouth and stick them up for a bit of clarity. I ain't going to buy a 08 focus van any more.

Guy:Incognito

If your paying the full private motor tax why bother with a carvan? Would you not be better off having a car, folding the seats (or just unbolting them and having a temporary board you can take out and put the seats back in) and having the option to have 5 seats if you need them?

K3v1nmn

maybe, but why pay an extra few grand for seats that I personally wouldn't use but twice a year. I use the back of my van regularly enough for bits and pieces, its shocking handy! The reason I bought a van in the first place was because I couldn't afford a decent Diesel car, there's easily 2k in the difference. I need a decent car because I drive 600+ miles a week and with some many unemployed trades people there is serious deals to be had on great cars.

YBTurbo

I have a 1998 Fiesta Car/Van should it be Doe'd ?


Taxed as private.

pa990

YBTurbo wrote: »

I have a 1998 Fiesta Car/Van should it be Doe'd ?


Taxed as private.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73241894&postcount=1

jetfiremuck

I think its splitting hairs. Doe has to be done yearly. Nct every 2 years. Whats the price difference. Lower vrt on car vans v private. Pros and cons on either. Commercial insurance usually more expensive etc.. If you have a valid nct on a car van you are legal and covered...in the eyes of the statutes as i see it.

captainZZZ

Hi lads,

I've a 08 car van, I'm wondering is it possible to turn it back into a car and pay the extra VRT, has anyone ever done this?

YBTurbo

pa990 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73241894&postcount=1

Yes I red thatm but i'm still confused.

I need a DOE yes ?

Nissan doctor

Just the job, I've just started looking at getting a van and taxing it privatly and the only things I was unsure about have just been answered.

_Conrad_

K3v1nmn wrote: »

You can NCT it, if you want. Well according to the NCTS lady I spoke to, you can, but I would be sceptical if you had an accident would it cover you legally. Considering it is test is for a CAR, which in legal terms is a Class A vehicle, as opposed to VAN which would be a Class C vehicle, even though its still a ford focus. I personally didn't want to go down the road of NCTing it because of the hassle, having to take time off work to do something I thought mightn't legally be worth the paper its written on. I know a test is probably better than no test, but if neither was right, why bother - That was just my view.

Well i personally have had difficulty getting a reasonable insurance quote on a private taxed van which had a DOE instead of NCT, with several insurance companies insisting that they want it to have an NCT once it's taxed as a private vehicle, yet i have been told by the NCT centre down here that they will not test a van even if it's registered as a private car and i'm paying the appropriate tax to reflect that. I managed to book it in but they refused to test it (escort "75" td van but private tax). I also enquired about a 4x4 that had come in from japan as a 7 seater, vrt'd as private then been driven around like that tested and taxed like that then changed to commercial tax and the rear seats taken out but literally nothing else changed, it was my uncle's and i was going to buy it off him but i wanted to see if i could change it back to private tax to avoid all the hassle of being stopped and fined if not using for work bla bla but i was again told, by both the motor tax office and the nct centre that they wouldn't let it be nct'd as it had once been registered and taxed as a commercial, even though it was first registered as private in this country

K3v1nmn

YBTurbo wrote: »

Yes I red thatm but i'm still confused.

I need a DOE yes ?

YES you do a need a doe, according to the R.S.A.,


But Id say in reality an nct would do either. legally though it has to be doe'd every year, according to the R.S.A.(not me)

In 18mths of owning my van I was never asked for either!

YBTurbo

K3v1nmn wrote: »

YES you do a need a doe, according to the R.S.A.,


But Id say in reality an nct would do either. legally though it has to be doe'd every year, according to the R.S.A.(not me)

In 18mths of owning my van I was never asked for either!

Awh Balls



Mmmm would it be stupid to chance it?

K3v1nmn

_Conrad_ wrote: »

Well i personally have had difficulty getting a reasonable insurance quote on a private taxed van which had a DOE instead of NCT, with several insurance companies insisting that they want it to have an NCT once it's taxed as a private vehicle

Yeah, they never specified to me, (I use Quinn) it was only when I asked that they said they 'assumed' it should be NCT'd. It doesn't make a whole pile of sense that they are odds with the RSA about it. Id still imagine if it went to court and it was DOE'd they'd have to pay up, because surely, if as you say you weren't allowed NCT it by the NCTS, how could they sell you a policy knowing it cannot be abided by?!

I'm kinda surprised the Department of the Environment didn't look for you to vrt the '4x4' again and tell you it could be NCT'd, just for good measure. Just to really screw you over!

K3v1nmn

YBTurbo wrote: »

Awh Balls



Mmmm would it be stupid to chance it?

Well for 18months I unknowing have. I've been checked a few times for tax and insurance, but never asked for a test. I reckon tho if you met a sticky Gard he could try strap 1 one an have a go.

YBTurbo

K3v1nmn wrote: »

Well for 18months I unknowing have. I've been checked a few times for tax and insurance, but never asked for a test. I reckon tho if you met a sticky Gard he could try strap 1 one an have a go.

Well I'v a letter in the glove box saying she's exempt so feck them

littlesthobo

YBTurbo wrote: »

Well I'v a letter in the glove box saying she's exempt so feck them

May i ask why/how you have an exemption?? I know that this was a grey area in the past.

I recently bought an car van and insurance company want doe cert before insuring me.

littlesthobo

_Conrad_ wrote: »

Well i personally have had difficulty getting a reasonable insurance quote on a private taxed van which had a DOE instead of NCT, with several insurance companies insisting that they want it to have an NCT once it's taxed as a private vehicle, yet i have been told by the NCT centre down here that they will not test a van even if it's registered as a private car and i'm paying the appropriate tax to reflect that. I managed to book it in but they refused to test it (escort "75" td van but private tax). I also enquired about a 4x4 that had come in from japan as a 7 seater, vrt'd as private then been driven around like that tested and taxed like that then changed to commercial tax and the rear seats taken out but literally nothing else changed, it was my uncle's and i was going to buy it off him but i wanted to see if i could change it back to private tax to avoid all the hassle of being stopped and fined if not using for work bla bla but i was again told, by both the motor tax office and the nct centre that they wouldn't let it be nct'd as it had once been registered and taxed as a commercial, even though it was first registered as private in this country

Had no problems getting a quote from my insurance company, Chartis (through a broker) and also Axa quoted me no problem when i went for a second opinion. Maybe they,re worth a try for you.

In both cases my insurance came down old car 99 1.2 fiesta vs new car 07 toyota auris carvan 1.4. Will be taxing privately and will be getting the van doe'd. NCT wont touch a commercial vehicle

YBTurbo

littlesthobo wrote: »

May i ask why/how you have an exemption?? I know that this was a grey area in the past.

I recently bought an car van and insurance company want doe cert before insuring me.

When I bought it, I was told it was exempt and there was a letter from the NCT stating this.

If I get pulled, I'll show the letter and see what happens, If she has to be DOE'd then so be it. (PS: I know the car is in roadworthy conditon before someone says otherwise)

Can provide a scan of the letter if needed.

Steve.N

This debate rolls on and on!!
Doing a lot of water sports I opted years ago to buy a small van as my main transport. I usually tax it commercially (so therefore DOE'd it every year at the same time my tax was due) but this year I heard of all the hassle with Gards stopping vans used for private use, so I tried to tax/insure it privately - I was met with complete confusion.
NO-ONE new their facts from the 6 Gards I spoke to, to the 8 yes 8 visits to the tax office, to the supervisor at the NCT center, to two different DOE centres. I also had hassle getting it insured as a private vehicle - through FBD & Insure.ie! No-one seemed to know their arse from their elbow!!
After 5wks of getting absolutely no-where (and a blazing argument with the tax office supervisor on my 8th visit - 2 other guys in the queue with vans backed me up) I said stuff it - I went back to insuring & taxing my van commercially and got a fresh DOE done - Simple!! (had to tell a white lie to the tax office declaring the van for business use).
5 wks of running around just to end up doing what I've been doing for years - That's what you get for trying to do the right thing! :rolleyes:

PS, my mates dad was a small Fiesta car/van for the past 15yrs and never has it tested at all as he taxes it privately - always told me that his van is in a loop hole

Berty

K3v1nmn wrote: »

maybe, but why pay an extra few grand for seats that I personally wouldn't use but twice a year. I use the back of my van regularly enough for bits and pieces, its shocking handy! The reason I bought a van in the first place was because I couldn't afford a decent Diesel car, there's easily 2k in the difference. I need a decent car because I drive 600+ miles a week and with some many unemployed trades people there is serious deals to be had on great cars.

LOL. Did you forget that you also bought the commerical vehicle so that you could park in loading bays?

Always a win win for commerical vehicles. :D

Gophur

YBTurbo wrote: »

When I bought it, I was told it was exempt and there was a letter from the NCT stating this.

If I get pulled, I'll show the letter and see what happens, If she has to be DOE'd then so be it. (PS: I know the car is in roadworthy conditon before someone says otherwise)

Can provide a scan of the letter if needed.

Well, facts are the vehicle is no longer exempt, so your letter is no longer valid. Plead ignorance all you want but you could run into trouble should you ever need to prove your vehicle is covered by a current road-worthiness certificate.

You now know your vehicle must be tested, so you can no longer plead ignorance.