Are Team Orders Stifling Driver Competition?

Randy Shafter

After watching the British grand prix at Silverstone and hearing Webber being told to stay behind Vettel, are team orders stifling competition between drivers within teams? Personally I think it is. Your thoughts?

Sabre0001

Team orders have always been present - teams probably learned from the era of Prost & Senna.

Codenames were used instead - McClaren like to "conserve fuel", Ferrari like to tell a driver that the other guy is quicker...Schumacher used to just sign a contract It happens.

Randy Shafter

Yeah it happens but the driver shouldn't get a rap on the knuckles for ignoring team orders especially if one driver is faster than the other (which Webber seemed to be yesterday).

GTE

I don't believe him when he said that he wouldn't let Vettel through.

From what I saw Webber was never close enough consistently until the end when Vettel was so slow that he would have been overtaken by another teams car if it panned out that way.

Autosport

Team orders were always there but Horner was just so two faced yesterday that it made me sick as he is always barking on about the 2 drivers are treated the same but they are obviously not.

frostie500

I think that the whole team orders thing has been completely blown out of proportion to be honest but there is defintely a fascinating argument for both Webber and Red Bull to make.
As a driver Webber is employed to win races and fight with whoever is in front of him on the track. Drivers dont differentiate between their teammate and another car, it is simply someone that is in their way. As a result its easy to see why Webber was so frustrated after the race but I think that this could be quite benifical to Webber. He has always had a fighters mentality and having his back against the wall always makes him raise his game.
If you look back to last year his best performances came when he was pinned into a corner, Spain and Silverstone being perfect examples.
I'm not sure what he was like in the televised press conference, I didnt see it, but in the press conference for written press minutes later he came in with a face like stone and was clearly incredibly angry with the situation. It will be interesting to see if he stays at Red Bull after this because he said something along the lines of "I'll have to examine all available drives" and that "I want to be able to race to the flag."
I cant recall too many situations of a driving willingly leaving the best car with the exception of Prost at the end of 89 but Webber seems pretty close to breaking point and wasnt holding back in his comments after the race.

On the other side of the coin I can completely understand Red Bull telling Webber to hold station. Both cars were in comfortable positions and the team could still extend its lead in the constructors championship. With team orders now legal there is no reason why the team wouldnt employ such tactics but I can also understand why most fans are annoyed by the fact that the team would go against their consistent "we let our drivers race each other."

One way or another the ramifications of the decisions made by both Webber and the team could have a lasting effect but its worth remembering that at Silverstone team orders did not stiffle driver competition because Webber ignored them and was unable to find a way past his teammate.

On a sidenote I think I have a few pictures of Webber in the that press conference so I'll post them later on in the week

Randy Shafter

I saw the press confrence after the race and it was clear from the way Webber spoke that he wasn't happy. And the look on his face reflected that. Had it not been so close to the end of the race, I think Webber could have gotten past Vettel. But personally, I think drivers should be allowed to some degree to disregard team orders like that. We saw what happened a few years back when Barachello(?) was told to slow down and let Schumacher past on the straight.

frostie500

Randy Shafter wrote: »

I saw the press confrence after the race and it was clear from the way Webber spoke that he wasn't happy. And the look on his face reflected that. Had it not been so close to the end of the race, I think Webber could have gotten past Vettel. But personally, I think drivers should be allowed to some degree to disregard team orders like that. We saw what happened a few years back when Barachello(?) was told to slow down and let Schumacher past on the straight.

Im sure if Webber had caught Vettel with, lets say, ten laps to go that he would have found a way past but with just four laps to try and find a way through, and no challenge from behind with Hamilton saving fuel, I can understand why Red Bull told him to hold station.

I think that this type of order is very different to the Barrichello one, Rubens was asked to hand over a win to let the driver in second win. This was completely different and the trailing driver was told to hold station. I applaud Webber for ignoring the order but in the long term it may not be the most prudent decision he has made.

In relation to giving drivers lee way on which orders to listen to and which ones not to where would you draw the line? What if Hamilton had ignored the order to save fuel and ran his tank dry on the last lap?

frostie500

Here's the picture of Webber in the press conference just as he sat down:

Interestingly this is a picture of Vettel just after Webber was asked a question about being relegated to a role as a number two driver:

Glico Man

Webber is not a happy looking man.

Autosport

Mark has some Poker face but at the end of the day RB are a company who pay him his wages so they do have some control over they're drivers. its not nice but its life

decisions

As long as teams have two cars and two drivers there will be team orders and a #1 #2 driver system driver competition will be stifled.

Massa the weekend for example: twice he was in a position that he needed to stop first and twice Alonso stopped first. Had that not been the case he would have been in a better position to chase Lewis. Actually it has happened almost every race but that is the nature of the sport and the driver arrangement in the team.

In every race in F1 and other Formulas teams have to make decisions based on what is happening on the track and their drivers positions in the championship, who do we need to score more points and who has the best chance of winning this race and finish high overall in the championship.

It is what it is..do I love watching it less because of it..? Sometimes..but only when I see it as blatent and on track.

amacachi

Autosport wrote: »

Mark has some Poker face but at the end of the day RB are a company who pay him his wages so they do have some control over they're drivers. its not nice but its life

The way contracts work he should fcuk them off, get an injunction to last 6 months and just be an arse on the track

Myrddin

I think when used this early on in the season, yeah, it does taint things. Team orders are a necessity, & if a team invests in two cars/drivers then of course, they should be able to use that investment to build a return.

Its complex & messy though regards how you define when team orders should/shouldn't be used. Personally, I'd rather they wern't allowed until a driver is mathematically out of contention. But then again, how would you swing that at Mercedes....both drivers mathematically still in with a chance (numbers only obviously) so how would such a rule pass in that camp?

Simply put, yes team orders are needed, but yes they stifle competition when used so early in a season. How do you solve that? I don't think you can.