Golf World - Top 100 Irish Courses

Kevinmarkham

Yep, another 'top 100' ranking.

I was buttered up to participate by being told that my input would be combined with Harrington's, McGinley's and Pat Ruddy's. A large exaggeration I'm sure, but I offered my thoughts and they took some on board - namely moving:
Rathcore from 100 to 60
Portumna from 67 to 55
Clandeboye from 70 to 51
Macreddin from 99 to 67
Concra Wood from 53 to 41
Ballybunion (Cashen) from 40 to 36

And several others to boot. I wasn't allowed to touch the top 21 as they're already published as part of the GB & I top 100, but this is a better ranking than Golf Digest Ireland's... although this year's should be interesting with greater amateur participation/input (including some from the Boards).

Some other good stuff in the magazine too (€6) - lots on Rory and some pointers from his new putting coach... something I desperately need at the moment!

bailey99

when's the magazine out. I wouldnt mind picking up a copy of it.

mag

its in the shops now. nice move for rathcore!

thought portarlington might have got a look in. first few holes let it down a bit i guess...

Tones69

Good to see my club in 24 Wonder how the do the rankings exactly

SM746

anywhere i can find the top 100? went down to tesco to buy the magazine and all gone so will have to try somewhere else tomorrow.

technodub

http://www.golfcentraldaily.com/2010/11/golf-digest-ireland-top-100-irish.html

Thats the top 25 and i have to say im disgusted royal dublin is in there i played it last year and i thought it was brutal and very easy! Plus they made us play from the rough even when the fairways were in perfect condition (that probably didnt help)

SM746

technodub wrote: »

http://www.golfcentraldaily.com/2010/11/golf-digest-ireland-top-100-irish.html

Thats the top 25 and i have to say im disgusted royal dublin is in there i played it last year and i thought it was brutal and very easy! Plus they made us play from the rough even when the fairways were in perfect condition (that probably didnt help)

cheers technodub but i think the Golfworld magazine ranking is different?? Tried for the magazine again in local newsagents who are always stocked up with loads of golf magazines and no luck. Il try Easons on Thursday and they might have it.
As for Royal Dublin being on this list, I must say I like the course. I think Belmullet at 25 is wrong as its superior to a lot of the courses above it

mag

technodub wrote: »

http://www.golfcentraldaily.com/2010/11/golf-digest-ireland-top-100-irish.html

Thats the top 25 and i have to say im disgusted royal dublin is in there i played it last year and i thought it was brutal and very easy! Plus they made us play from the rough even when the fairways were in perfect condition (that probably didnt help)

thats a different list

bailey99

carne is 10th in the Golf World list i think. Got the magazine in Tesco last nite. As a member of Carne, its an incredible course, would recommend anyway to make the effort (and it is an effort to get there) to play their a couple of times.

SM746

bailey99 wrote: »

carne is 10th in the Golf World list i think. Got the magazine in Tesco last nite. As a member of Carne, its an incredible course, would recommend anyway to make the effort (and it is an effort to get there) to play their a couple of times.

could even be higher in my opinion as its a wonderful course. The courses in the north west / west do not get the full credit they deserve imo. Where have they placed Murvagh, Sligo and Enniscrone? Going to check Easons for it tomorrow and if they do not have it its not meant to be

bailey99

i think those three will ranked lower than carne. Murvagh was 20 something i think. North west is a pain to get to, so the yanks dont play there and rave about it as much. Agree with u the area gets nothing like the coverage that it should. Carne u can have the course to yourself some days. If the area was more accessible the courses would be raved about similar to Ballybunion, Lahinch and Tralee.

mag

top 25

1. co down
2. portrush
3. waterville
4. ballybunion
5. portmarnock
6. european
7. louth
8. lahinch
9. doonbeg
10. carne
11. sligo
12. island
13. donegal
14. ballyliffen new
15. adare
16. mount juliet
17. old head kinsale
18. tralee
19. rosapenna new
20. lough erne
21. enniscrone
22. portstewart
23. kileen castle
24. royal dublin
25. castlerock

The_Kew_Tour

Only played Waterville and Ballybunion from that list but Waterville is the best course I have played and I would not consider myself the biggest links lover.(although getting better)

SM746

mag wrote: »

top 25

1. co down
2. portrush
3. waterville
4. ballybunion
5. portmarnock
6. european
7. louth
8. lahinch
9. doonbeg
10. carne
11. sligo
12. island
13. donegal
14. ballyliffen new
15. adare
16. mount juliet
17. old head kinsale
18. tralee
19. rosapenna new
20. lough erne
21. enniscrone
22. portstewart
23. kileen castle
24. royal dublin
25. castlerock

thanks mag must still try get my hands on the mag though for a read of it. Have to agree with the comments above about Waterville its an immense course. My one aim this summer is to play Royal County Down to see what its all about. Very true bailey about the difficulties to get to the courses up here. On the positive, I am a member of Murvagh and the course does be quiet Monday to Friday up to lunch time so its class for getting a quick 18 holes in. Lough Erne is the one in that list that will be in the top 10 in the coming years as its an excellent course.

tonyon

Played Portumna last week, 6th July. What a course, superb greens, fantastic location, very very reasonable green fees, great food and made to feel very welcome and only 2hrs 15mins from Dublin. Have played all the big courses over the past 30 years and Portumna is up there with the best, without the rip-off aspect that applies to most of them. Very enjoyable day out.

dvemail

Does anybody have a link to the rank of the full 100 courses?

ARGAEL

Does anyone know if the Heritage is ranked? Surely if Lough erne in in receivership and is ranked surely the heritage get in. Really nice course

tang1

Not havin a go, but how St Annes is in the top 100 Courses in Ireland i do not know. Not saying its a bad course, but i think there are superior courses to it not ranked in the top 100.

f22

tang1 wrote: »

Not havin a go, but how St Annes is in the top 100 Courses in Ireland i do not know. Not saying its a bad course, but i think there are superior courses to it not ranked in the top 100.

It has the worst greens of any links course I know. Personally I think it's a very average course at best.

Kevinmarkham

f22 wrote: »

It has the worst greens of any links course I know. Personally I think it's a very average course at best.

I suggested to Golf World that St. Anne's didn't make the top 100 at all - originally it was at 81. I suggested dropping a few others to make way for the likes of Portarlington, Gowran Park and Dundrum, but the only ones that weren't on the original list that did make the 100 were Strandhill and Mullingar.

kerosene

SM746 wrote: »

thanks mag must still try get my hands on the mag though for a read of it. Have to agree with the comments above about Waterville its an immense course. My one aim this summer is to play Royal County Down to see what its all about. Very true bailey about the difficulties to get to the courses up here. On the positive, I am a member of Murvagh and the course does be quiet Monday to Friday up to lunch time so its class for getting a quick 18 holes in. Lough Erne is the one in that list that will be in the top 10 in the coming years as its an excellent course.

If you are planning to play Royal Co Down this summer and are spending a couple of days in the area, you could do worse than play Ardglass if you get the chance. Its only 20 miles further up the coast a very good links course, good value and good grub after as well. ps McIlroy was there 2 weeks after he won the us open, caddying for a mate of his in a club competition ( Ardglass v Belvoir I think) and accepted the invitation to be an hononary member.

The_Architect

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yep, another 'top 100' ranking.

I was buttered up to participate by being told that my input would be combined with Harrington's, McGinley's and Pat Ruddy's. A large exaggeration I'm sure, but I offered my thoughts and they took some on board - namely moving:
Rathcore from 100 to 60
Portumna from 67 to 55
Clandeboye from 70 to 51
Macreddin from 99 to 67
Concra Wood from 53 to 41
Ballybunion (Cashen) from 40 to 36

And several others to boot. I wasn't allowed to touch the top 21 as they're already published as part of the GB & I top 100, but this is a better ranking than Golf Digest Ireland's... although this year's should be interesting with greater amateur participation/input (including some from the Boards).

Some other good stuff in the magazine too (€6) - lots on Rory and some pointers from his new putting coach... something I desperately need at the moment!

Hello Kevin,

The first 21 courses are a replica of the GB&I Top 100 (Nov'10). The next 15 or 16 are taken directly from the GB&I Top 200 (Nov '10). The remaining rankings seem to directly lean on the Golf Digest Ireland rankings. This can be worked out in general positioning but also in the ommission of some sure fire courses such as The Heritage which were ommitted from the Golf Digest Ireland list because they were in administration.

In other words, you believe this list to be better because it correlates more with what you believe, partly because you have had a degree of influence.

Kevinmarkham

The_Architect wrote: »

In other words, you believe this list to be better because it correlates more with what you believe, partly because you have had a degree of influence.

Yes, obviously, but I also think that the Golf Digest Ireland rankings swing too wildly from year to year to be credible.

Other than The Heritage, what other 'sure fire courses' are you referring to?

The_Architect

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yes, obviously, but I also think that the Golf Digest Ireland rankings swing too wildly from year to year to be credible.

Other than The Heritage, what other 'sure fire courses' are you referring to?

Perhaps not as "sure fire" as The Heritage (which is a definite miss) but I would have thought that Moyvalley and New Forest may have been missed for the same reasons.

The Golf World GB&I 200 includes 39 Irish courses. The next group in the rankings seem to have been hand picked as the highest ones missed from the Golf Digest Ireland list (Carlow, Cork, Portsalon, Rosapenna Old etc...). The rest are positioned in such a way that it is fairly obvious that Golf World didn't act completely independently for this ranking.

I agree that the Golf Digest Ireland list had some wild swings last year but I think these were generally in the right direction. Perhaps it will start to stabilise from now on? We will have to wait and see.

SM746

The_Architect wrote: »

Perhaps not as "sure fire" as The Heritage (which is a definite miss) but I would have thought that Moyvalley and New Forest may have been missed for the same reasons.

The Golf World GB&I 200 includes 39 Irish courses. The next group in the rankings seem to have been hand picked as the highest ones missed from the Golf Digest Ireland list (Carlow, Cork, Portsalon, Rosapenna Old etc...). The rest are positioned in such a way that it is fairly obvious that Golf World didn't act completely independently for this ranking.

I agree that the Golf Digest Ireland list had some wild swings last year but I think these were generally in the right direction. Perhaps it will start to stabilise from now on? We will have to wait and see.

Finally got the magazine and I have to agree with you on Moyvalley. I think its a superb course and well deserving of a place in the top 100. I just had one quick glance and I did not see St. Margarets? Surely that is well deserving of a place as I think its one of the best parklands in Leinster. Overall I feel its a strong list

ARGAEL

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yes, obviously, but I also think that the Golf Digest Ireland rankings swing too wildly from year to year to be credible.

Other than The Heritage, what other 'sure fire courses' are you referring to?

Kevin.... Why do you think that the Heritage was omitted? It is better than a lot of courses, parkland especially, on that list. I understood that as it was in administration that was was a reason for exclusion, but there are other courses in administration in the list. In the midlands especially you cant tell me tullamore is a better course and i think glasson isnt as good but thats only me.

Do you think there is a reason for its omission or did they think there are 100 better courses. You also state you tried to get Portarlington in. Its a nice course but not nearly the test of golf that the heritage is.

Kevinmarkham

ARGAEL wrote: »

Kevin.... Why do you think that the Heritage was omitted? It is better than a lot of courses, parkland especially, on that list. I understood that as it was in administration that was was a reason for exclusion, but there are other courses in administration in the list. In the midlands especially you cant tell me tullamore is a better course and i think glasson isnt as good but thats only me.

Do you think there is a reason for its omission or did they think there are 100 better courses. You also state you tried to get Portarlington in. Its a nice course but not nearly the test of golf that the heritage is.

I agree that there are courses in there that shouldn't be, and courses that should be but aren't. There were several inclusions I'd like to have seen, including The Heritage, Moyvalley, New Forest and Portarlington, Castletroy, Coollattin... but you can't always get what you want! They had other people involved in the rankings who obviously had strong feelings too.

As for those clubs in administration, it was something I discussed with them and they were taking it 'under advisement'. I suspect that if a course wasn't on their original top 100 list (as Tulfarris was) they probably thought it best to leave it out. I see their rationale but it's a shame to leave out some class courses.

ThunderCat

Had a quick flick through the rankings last nite and I am suprised that the Castle is as high as 95 on the list. Played it last week and its a cracking course. The bunkering and greens are particularly strong. One thing is plainly evident reading through the rankings though - we have got some amazing links courses in this country. The whole world knows about Ballybunion and Lahinch etc. but the links of Donegal and Derry as a collective golf destination could be the best place to take a golf holiday in the world - weather permitting of course.
One further point that ive noticed with the rankings however is the fact that the top 15-20 rarely change. For example, both courses at Ballyliffin have recently undergone a bunker remodelling scheme, presumably making the courses stronger and perhaps worthy of a better placement within the rankings, but this type of thing doesnt seem to influence the courses position. Are the top 20 just a copy and paste job from other rankings with no room for change?

Henry Ford III

I'm a bit surprised that Doonbeg scores as highly as it does.

It's a fine tourist product with very high levels of service and attention, but it's not a great golf course imho.

pauldoo

Don't think dromoland should be there,played it this summer and thought there were a lot of mickey mouse holes in it,some very very short par 4s and poorly designed holes

Kevinmarkham

ThunderCat wrote: »

Are the top 20 just a copy and paste job from other rankings with no room for change?

On this occasion their top 21 courses date back to the 2010 list of top 100 courses in GB & I, so there was no room for manoeuvre. Before that, I don't know. My guess is that the 'top' courses (be it the top 10 or 20) are widely regarded as being the same by most publications and that the rankings move around a little bit depending on who is involved and what work has been done on the course. Portmarnock had a lot of work done around the greens in the last couple of years and the work has been widely praised - resulting in a positive upward move. The work at Royal Dublin has also seen it improve its standing. Part of it, of course, is whether reviewers/writers have been to courses that have had changes made... If they don't know about them, they're unlikely to change a course's position.

Whose responsibility is it to find out? The reviewer or the course itself? I've actively tried to get courses to contact me to notify me of any changes, but you could talk to the wrong person, or the right person could leave the club, or your email/contact details simply get 'filed'.

You'll never see RCD outside the top 3 and Royal Portrush, Portmarnock, Ballybunion, The European and Waterville will never be outside the top 10 - so that's 6 courses that will always stay at the top because they're simply in a better class of golf course. The likes of Adare, Mount Juliet, the K Club, Druid's Glen and Lough Erne/Killeen Castle are superb tracks but are simply not regarded in the same way as traditional links-style courses. And that's one of the reasons I like Back Spin's rankings where they split parkland and links.

SM746

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

On this occasion their top 21 courses date back to the 2010 list of top 100 courses in GB & I, so there was no room for manoeuvre. Before that, I don't know. My guess is that the 'top' courses (be it the top 10 or 20) are widely regarded as being the same by most publications and that the rankings move around a little bit depending on who is involved and what work has been done on the course. Portmarnock had a lot of work done around the greens in the last couple of years and the work has been widely praised - resulting in a positive upward move. The work at Royal Dublin has also seen it improve its standing. Part of it, of course, is whether reviewers/writers have been to courses that have had changes made... If they don't know about them, they're unlikely to change a course's position.

Whose responsibility is it to find out? The reviewer or the course itself? I've actively tried to get courses to contact me to notify me of any changes, but you could talk to the wrong person, or the right person could leave the club, or your email/contact details simply get 'filed'.

You'll never see RCD outside the top 3 and Royal Portrush, Portmarnock, Ballybunion, The European and Waterville will never be outside the top 10 - so that's 6 courses that will always stay at the top because they're simply in a better class of golf course. The likes of Adare, Mount Juliet, the K Club, Druid's Glen and Lough Erne/Killeen Castle are superb tracks but are simply not regarded in the same way as traditional links-style courses. And that's one of the reasons I like Back Spin's rankings where they split parkland and links.

Is that the rankings where they got professionals, amateurs and golf writers to vote for every course and tallied up the points? In that case many of the voters would not have played courses from outside their own areas and this could not really be a true reflection. I think I am correct in saying that Carne did not even the top 20/25 links in that list and I would offer the observation that many of the voters did had never played this course and therefore it did not recieve the points that it should have had. And I do remember Royal Dublin being higher than Enniscrone and the Glashedy Links, perhaps another example of these excellent courses not getting the votes from the 'experts' having never set foot on them.

If Back Spin is not the rankings I am basing the observations on above them apologies but I remember there was a ranking done like the one I am mentioning and I am pretty sure it was Back Spin. In summary I would have more faith in the Golf World top 100.

Kevinmarkham

SM746 wrote: »

Is that the rankings where they got professionals, amateurs and golf writers to vote for every course and tallied up the points? In that case many of the voters would not have played courses from outside their own areas and this could not really be a true reflection. I think I am correct in saying that Carne did not even the top 20/25 links in that list and I would offer the observation that many of the voters did had never played this course and therefore it did not recieve the points that it should have had. And I do remember Royal Dublin being higher than Enniscrone and the Glashedy Links, perhaps another example of these excellent courses not getting the votes from the 'experts' having never set foot on them.

If Back Spin is not the rankings I am basing the observations on above them apologies but I remember there was a ranking done like the one I am mentioning and I am pretty sure it was Back Spin. In summary I would have more faith in the Golf World top 100.

You're right - that's Back Spin - and yes, it doesn't quite work as some of the more remote courses don't the coverage they deserve.

What I like is the separation of links and parkland - several people have made the observation that I prefer links to parkland because the scores I give them are higher... but that's not actually the case - they're very different animals offering very different experiences, and by separating them out, Back Spin aren't trying to put one ahead of the other. I approve of that.

The_Architect

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

You're right - that's Back Spin - and yes, it doesn't quite work as some of the more remote courses don't the coverage they deserve.

What I like is the separation of links and parkland - several people have made the observation that I prefer links to parkland because the scores I give them are higher... but that's not actually the case - they're very different animals offering very different experiences, and by separating them out, Back Spin aren't trying to put one ahead of the other. I approve of that.

In fairness Kevin, it doesn't take too much to split links and non-links yourself. In fact, Golf Digest Ireland do it for you with a top-25 of each after their main 100. Golf World often do this as well.

The reason links courses top the Irish lists is that Ireland is full of world class links courses. I'm not so sure it is full of world class non-links courses.

To your above list of definite Top-10's, I would add Lahinch and County Louth. That makes 8. The other two places can fight it out.

ARGAEL

i think there just needs to be more transparancy over how the rankings are decided, and on what basis the evaluation is done i.e. what the criteria are. I know i mentioned it before on this thread but The Heritage in Laois hosted the Seve trophy with a list of internationally renowned golfers and was in great nick the last time i played it, but yet is unable to get into the top 100 courses in the country??

Some courses are just in there on reputation and while i agree that all the courses you described as being certainties for the top 10 should be there, some of the courses further down the list just dont stack up in my opinion. I cant get over anyone thinking Tullamore is better than the Heritage.

Or do others disagree?