Shimano Ultegra 6700 vs SRAM Force 2011

pprendeville

Opinions on these 2 groupsets please. Was using Ultegra 6600 and thought it was fine. Loved the hoods I must say. Very comfy. The SRAM hoods look a lot lower, i.e. they don't kick up as much at the front. Not sure it would make much difference. Reading that the SRAM kit is lighter, not sure by how much.

http://www.bike24.com/1.php
http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Road+Parts/Transmission/Groupsets+-+Road+Bike/Sram+Force+Sale+Groupset_FORCE-GROUP-SALE.htm

Also, differences between BB30 and BSA. Obviously, frame will need to suit whichever one but is BB30 lighter/better/easier to put together?

petethedrummer

BB30 is a press fit bottom bracket. You need another tool for this job AFAIK. It supposedly stiffer. I don't like it. I fear change. Like integrated headsets it seems to me to be of dubious merit. But these days you can hardly get a carbon frame without one or both of these developments.

Quigs Snr

Id go for force personally but that's because I am a weight weenie.

Here's where you can compare weights.

http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/component-weights.html

Holyboy

petethedrummer wrote: »

BB30 is a press fit bottom bracket. You need another tool for this job AFAIK. It supposedly stiffer. I don't like it. I fear change. Like integrated headsets it seems to me to be of dubious merit. But these days you can hardly get a carbon frame without one or both of these developments.

FSA are bringing out an even newer BB system now its BB367 or something like that, I cant remember the exact number! They say its the best EVER and it can be fitted to any frame, I dont like change either but it happens! Bring back cotter pins, thats what I say:)

Idleater

I picked force over ultegra for my race bike due to action (seam throw is less and also curved rather than straight which is nice in the drops), feel, weight and looks. My bike is bb30 which shimano don't do (you put in a gpx type shim into the frame) so force is even lighter and stiffer than gpx variant.
In my case, force was €100 more than ultegra, but I like it so much I'm getting my commuter built with rival.
When I was researching it, force is basically red without titanium pins at a significant cost saving. I put rival as closer to ultegra, and force closer to duraace.
Not sure what tooling bb30 needs, any video I've seen makes it seem toolless and stupidly simple. Bearing press maybe, but the crank axle fits directly through the bearings. 10mm Allen key removal.

Lumen

I don't like press-fit bearings. In my experience (BB86) they are not servicable - the plastic body is deformable and single use only.

This is a major pain in the hole when trying to get rid of creaks.

With a threaded BB you take it off, grease it up and put it back on.

With a press-fit BB you take it off, chuck it away, put in a new one.

I understand the theoretical benefits (weight, compatibility with larger tubing) compared to a traditional arrangement, but for me this is not progress. I like being able to take stuff apart and put it back together again.

As for Shimano vs SRAM, I drop chains more often with SRAM but prefer the shifting. A SRAM upshift is a thing of beauty.

pprendeville

are all SRAM groupsets BB30? is it possible to use SRAM Force on a BSA BB by using some sort of adapter or am i just asking a silly question? if possible, is it awakward to fit?

Lumen

pprendeville wrote: »

are all SRAM groupsets BB30?

No.

The SRAM bottom bracket standard is GXP. That defines how the cranks connect to/through the BB.

That's different to the bottom bracket shell standards, e.g. English, Italian, BB86, BB30, which define the design of the shell in the frame into which the BB is inserted.

So, the choice of chainset determines the type of BB you need, the choice of frameset determines the variant of that BB you need.

pprendeville wrote: »

is it possible to use SRAM Force on a BSA BB by using some sort of adapter or am i just asking a silly question? if possible, is it awkward to fit?

You just need to use a GXP BB with English thread. This is a common configuration, and typically an option when buying a groupset (e.g. here).

(I assume BSA = English)

petethedrummer

Holyboy wrote: »

FSA are bringing out an even newer BB system now its BB367 or something like that, I cant remember the exact number! They say its the best EVER and it can be fitted to any frame, I dont like change either but it happens! Bring back cotter pins, thats what I say:)

Right, so a carbon bike I've had my eye on has come down in price. It has a semi-integrated headset. Good. I cannot abide by integrated and won't be convinced otherwise. Same with Italian bottom brackets.

This bike has a BB30 bottom bracket. What is the dealio on these? I'm open to opinions. The bike will be used for racing only, so will be used once a week(or once a year at the rate I'm going). Are these any good or not??

Go with me on this......

I was talking it over with a mechanically minded mate and he reckons it would definitely be stiffer than threaded type and that unless threads are very finely engineered they have lateral or torsional or some kind of (can't think of the word) movement. He says alot of joints on cars are press fit for the good seal they make. I've gone through alot of bottom brackets and am wondering would repeated removal and installation of a BB30 type eventually damage the frame and leave the BB area creaky (at best) and slippy (at worst).

I'm not quite sure what I'm getting at to be honest. Should I buy the f**ing bike or not?

FrankGrimes

Interesting thread for the info on different bottom brackets. Sorry to semi-hijack, but is the BSA the more common model? I'm looking to change the MEGXO bottom bracket that came with the FSA Gossamer chainset on my PlanetX bike a few years ago, and am just wondering if the standard DuraAce bottom bracket will work or if I need a different version (e.g. the DuraAce octalink version) given I'm changing to a DuraAce Hollowtech II chainset.

cython

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Interesting thread for the info on different bottom brackets. Sorry to semi-hijack, but is the BSA the more common model? I'm looking to change the MEGXO bottom bracket that came with the FSA Gossamer chainset on my PlanetX bike a few years ago, and am just wondering if the standard DuraAce bottom bracket will work or if I need a different version (e.g. the DuraAce octalink version) given I'm changing to a DuraAce Hollowtech II chainset.

You definitely don't need an octalink BB, as that is basically a cartridge BB with a specific crank interface. Standard Dura Ace Hollowtech BB cups in the correct thread should be exactly what you need.

pprendeville

Have gone with the Ultegra 6700. Doing my own bike build. What's the story with all the screws that are needed? Do they come with the groupset (unlikely). If not can someone recommend where I can get a full set for this groupset. Obviously LBS can help but feel awkward going in there when I'm building my own bike and asking them just for screws.

Lemag

pprendeville wrote: »

Have gone with the Ultegra 6700. Doing my own bike build. What's the story with all the screws that are needed? Do they come with the groupset (unlikely). If not can someone recommend where I can get a full set for this groupset. Obviously LBS can help but feel awkward going in there when I'm building my own bike and asking them just for screws.

Cable stops? If so, they can probably be got on Wiggle or other online stores. They should come on the frame already though.

TinyExplosions

Lemag wrote: »

Cable stops? If so, they can probably be got on Wiggle or other online stores. They should come on the frame already though.

Assuming you're talking about:


They don't usually come with the frame, but do come in the box with STi (and downtube and bar end) shifters if you buy Shimano, but don't if you go with SRAM (I've not bought a Campagnolo Gruppo so can't comment on that)

Lemag

Yep. Not sure if that's what pprendeville is talking about though. He'll probably clarify this, I guess. They came with my Canyon which is the only frameset I've bought so far. Good to know that they don't accompany most framesets.

TinyExplosions

Lemag wrote: »

Yep. Not sure if that's what pprendeville is talking about though. He'll probably clarify this, I guess. They came with my Canyon which is the only frameset I've bought so far. Good to know that they don't accompany most framesets.

Yeah, also worth noting is that often it's just the barrel adjusters that you need


As most non steel frames have the stop built in, but you can unscrew them from the ones above that come in the box

petethedrummer

petethedrummer wrote: »

Right, so a carbon bike I've had my eye on has come down in price............ blah blah de blah blah.......Should I buy the f**ing bike or not?

Don't need advice anymore. I found a massively reduced frame with everything as it should be. Threaded BB and Non-Integrated headset.:cool:

doozerie

May be of no interest at this stage, but just in case Ribble Cycles have 25% off SRAM parts & accessories at the moment. I'm not familiar with SRAM prices generally so don't know if the Ribble prices are good, bad, or indifferent, but they've had some good reductions on other products in the past so possibly it's the case this time too.

The reduction does not appear to apply to SRAM groupsets though from what I can see.

Quigs Snr

Ribble are generally the cheapest on most things these days, the Sram "SALE" ahem, is a joke though. I was looking at getting Sram Red shifters earlier in the week, they were 337 but went out of stock a day or two ago. Still out of stock, but now with 25% off they are a mere 379 ! What a bargain, only about 10% more than they were yesterday ! Roll up, roll up, its the sale of the century folks.

Wiggle are the same. Big announcement at least 20% off SRAM, but hurry offer expires on Sunday night ! If you rush you can get those Sram red shifters for 406, but be fast, on Sunday they will revert to their previous price that they have been all week of...... you guessed it, 406 !

pprendeville

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Assuming you're talking about:


They don't usually come with the frame, but do come in the box with STi (and downtube and bar end) shifters if you buy Shimano, but don't if you go with SRAM (I've not bought a Campagnolo Gruppo so can't comment on that)

ya them's those alright. cheers lads.

doozerie

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Ribble are generally the cheapest on most things these days, the Sram "SALE" ahem, is a joke though. I was looking at getting Sram Red shifters earlier in the week, they were 337 but went out of stock a day or two ago. Still out of stock, but now with 25% off they are a mere 379 ! What a bargain, only about 10% more than they were yesterday ! Roll up, roll up, its the sale of the century folks.

Wiggle are the same. Big announcement at least 20% off SRAM, but hurry offer expires on Sunday night ! If you rush you can get those Sram red shifters for 406, but be fast, on Sunday they will revert to their previous price that they have been all week of...... you guessed it, 406 !

Wiggle certainly do have very misleading promotions where their advertised "20% off list price" offers are just advertising their regular prices but with different wording. Worse still, some of the Wiggle discount codes can't be used with these so-called "special offer" prices which takes even more of the shine off their prices.

In the case of Ribble though, for those things that I've checked in the past their reductions have been genuine and the price does jump back up after the offer ends. I've only checked this for stuff that I was planning to buy though so it might not be representative of their prices across the board. Likewise I've seen some genuine and good value offers on ProBikeKit's site too.

However, one thing I have noticed in the last couple of weeks is that items that I've kept half an eye on on all three sites above have increased in cost, and by a much greater amount than could be explained by currency fluctuations. I think, though I'm not certain, that in all cases too the price increase didn't correspond to the end of an offer. I haven't checked other items on the sites for comparison but I wonder whether there has been a jump in prices for certain brands or suppliers recently.