Anonymous Social Welfare Complaints/Reporting

0din

Hello all.

Just posting to get a feel for general interest in a site where people can anonymously submit information and/or complaints regarding individuals they know/work with who are cheating the Irish social welfare system in some way.

I know quite a few people who want to complain about people they know or work with who are also receiving social welfare payments. Their main issue is that they feel complaining about such things will expose their identity during the complaint process or that the reporting process is a lengthy procedure.

I am proposing this concept as an intermediary layer between the Irish people and the Irish government, whereby all info is forwarded on to the relevant social welfare offices without information of the original complainee.

The idea came to me this year but never materialised into anything, but I have the money to invest in such a site at the moment. When I say invest I mean investing in a better future for my children who will hopefully see a fairer economy in Ireland when they are my age. There is no doubt that people cheating the system (example - working "on the sly" and collecting dole payments or Foreign Nationals collecting multiple child benefits for the same child (yes, it happens. I've seen it)) is affecting all of our lives. I would hope that this intermediary layer would help people open up and expose these cheaters with the end result of their social welfare payments being cancelled after an investigation.

This does raise the question of - "Do the relevant departments in government have the resources and funding for such investigations?"

Basically what I am asking for from this post is for some form of input/criticism of such a site and if possible someone to point out legal issues/data protection act issues etc.

Thanks.

Inverse to the power of one!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=disgraced+irish+bankers

There isn't a website to name and shame the people who bankrupted this country.......

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=disgraced+irish+bankers#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=disgraced+irish+unions&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d2b3001184872cdf&biw=1680&bih=919

There isn't a website to name and shame the people who bleed the country dry as it runs further in to the red.......


http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=disgraced+irish+bankers#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=disgraced+irish+politicians&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d2b3001184872cdf&biw=1680&bih=919

There isn't even one for disgraced Irish politicians!

Yet you expect us to take a minority of a majority suffering as a priority!


Just what is it in our psychology that we operate this way!

I'm not saying that welfare fraud should be ignored! But paddy down the road earning extra pay by menial manual jobs on the side is well down on the priority list compared those who defraud not on an individual level but on an national and international level!

Maybe you could create more then one website

murphaph

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

snip

Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

Making a website with a list of disgraced politicians or bankers is a great idea. So is making one to help catch people committing benefit theft or tax evasion. Benefit thieves and tax evaders are a big problem and are stealing out of tax compliant taxpayers pockets.

I feel however that the attitude amongst the departments and politicians responsible for dishing out taxpayers money is a major stumbling block. They are ineffective at best. Are they even capable of investigating and prosecuting benefit theft? The UK has a lot of benefit theft as well, despite taking major steps to combat it. We have taken almost none in comparison. I dread to think how much Ireland loses to benefit theft (think free travel passes, commonly sold to people not entitled to them. The department repsonsible has NO IDEA how many passes are currently in circulation. This type of thing could be eliminated given the will of said department).

Bluetonic

0din wrote: »

I know quite a few people who want to complain about people they know or work with who are also receiving social welfare payments.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who claim social welfare payments and work quite legitimately. There are many types of social welfare payments.

The people you know may not know quite as much as they think about peoples circumstance and your intermediate layer is open to too much abuse, so much so that it itself would be a resource hog.

Inverse to the power of one!

murphaph wrote: »

Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

And I phrased my post carefully not to contravene that, but I view it differently in a resources and priorities world view and I feel it's extremely out of balance to worry about one group when the other group is far more dangerous and has a proven track record in causing measurable damage.

But ignoring this, we do share common ground in that websites to tackle all types of fraudsters is a worthy endeavor.

Not surprisingly the government departments responsible for investigating and prosecuting the people who destroyed the country are as ineffective as those tasked with welfare fraud - So maybe that's where we should focus our attention.

mikemac

0din wrote: »

I am proposing this concept as an intermediary layer between the Irish people and the Irish government, whereby all info is forwarded on to the relevant social welfare offices without information of the original complainee.

This already exists
https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

You can report suspected social welfare fraud anonymously by completing this form.

Your Contact Details

The information you provide is strictly
confidential. You do not need to tell us
who you are, but if you would like us to
be able to contact you for more information,
please provide contact details.

Debtocracy

0din wrote: »

When I say invest I mean investing in a better future for my children who will hopefully see a fairer economy in Ireland when they are my age.

What if they end up on the dole and need an extra few quid.

motherriley

There is a programm on BBC2 about this it is called saints and scroungers, one programme features the story of the family who cheated the benefit system to build a property empire worth 1.5 million pounds while defrauding over 168,000 thousand pounds in housing and council tax benefits.

I do not think they were in need of an extra couple of quid...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xyhzl

Delancey

OP , where would boards.ie be without people like you who just luuurve to blame all of society's ills on the unemployed ?
Your idea stinks , targetting the unemployed is cowardly - why not target the bankers , developers and politicians that destroyed the country ?

Dannyboy83

Delancey wrote: »

OP , where would boards.ie be without people like you who just luuurve to blame all of society's ills on the unemployed ?
Your idea stinks , targetting the unemployed is cowardly - why not target the bankers , developers and politicians that destroyed the country ?

The OP is not targeting the unemployed tho.
He is clearly targeting those who abuse the system.

If anything, this will actually improve life for the unemployed (and the countless who are cheated out of assistance by the Irish Department of social welfare).

Icepick

Delancey wrote: »

OP , where would boards.ie be without people like you who just luuurve to blame all of society's ills on the unemployed ?
Your idea stinks , targetting the unemployed is cowardly - why not target the bankers , developers and politicians that destroyed the country ?

unemployed much?

0din

Thanks to all for replying.

In case it wasn't entirely clear from my original post let me reiterate my intentions here -

I want to create an easy, accessible, anonymous method for people to report those individuals who are abusing the social welfare system by means of benefit fraud.

A lot of you raised some interesting points, notably that the proposed system might be abused by people who think they understand the social welfare system. Example: some individuals receive part-time dole payments if they work a certain amount of hours which is perfectly legal.

I am surprised that a member has replied accusing me of "picking on the unemployed." I simply wish to see a better standard of living for everyone. I personally know two individuals who are claiming a substantial amount of money via child benefits. They have sought asylum here but are from Nigeria originally. They are sisters and they are each claiming social welfare for the same child. Until recently I didn't really think that was possibly but I have also learned that one of the individuals was required to sign an affidavit in court to "prove" the child was hers. I am friends with said individual and we have spoken about it and her general response is "What's the problem? Everyone here does it!" which leads me to believe that this form of fraud is rampant throughout the country.

Another individual has suggested a site which names and shames the politicians and bankers that crippled the economy. Although I feel this could be a good idea in terms of raising awareness, in the overall scheme, I don't feel that it would have too much positive effect. I do, however, feel that reporting of such individuals as I've mentioned before would certainly lead to further investigation by either the relevant social welfare departments and/or Gardaí.

The end result would be (hopefully) a fairer system for people who deserve the payments and possibly even an increase in payment sum. As a side note, I was made redundant after working for a company for 7 years, last year. I spent the next 10 months up-skilling and luckily I have recently bagged myself a new work contract (albeit a short one.)
I do see myself possibly having to rely on dole payments in the not-too-distant future.

Can anyone shed light on any of the potential legal issues that may arise from this basic concept -
1. User reports potential fraudster to site (Name, Address, Type of fraud.) 2. Information is checked to determine that it falls within illegal terms (this I can research myself.)
3. Information is forwarded on to relevant social welfare office(s) based on County of originating report.

Thanks again

MagicSean

This system for reporting already exists. I used it the other day.

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Jonmac101

0din wrote: »

I personally know two individuals who are claiming a substantial amount of money via child benefits. They have sought asylum here but are from Nigeria originally. They are sisters and they are each claiming social welfare for the same child. Until recently I didn't really think that was possibly but I have also learned that one of the individuals was required to sign an affidavit in court to "prove" the child was hers. I am friends with said individual and we have spoken about it and her general response is "What's the problem? Everyone here does it!" which leads me to believe that this form of fraud is rampant throughout the country.

Oh LOLS.. Those crazy Nigerians and their many schemes!!! :rolleyes:

Coincidentally, I went to college with a girl from Nigeria who has been living in Ireland for about 8yrs, She moved to Ireland from Nigeria with her older sister and they both received citizenship through the now defunct 'Irish Born Child Scam'.
She told me in order for her to be eligible for citizenship she had to pass herself off as her sisters daughter and that her sister had to sign a court affidavit to verify this "truth".
She also told me she had to sign a court affidavit when she was applying for a college grant, it was approved and she got full fees and maintenance. She used to always come into college on grant day with loads of shopping bags and a big smile on her face and she'd always ask me "How come you dont get the grant and you are Irish?":D
I did consider reporting her once altough its hard to go behind a friends back, I suppose I blame the system more than the people that abuse it.


Also the free travel scheme has to be the biggest scam in the country! all it is is a printed piece of paper in plastic pouch and you can travel anywhere in the country for free. You dont even need ID to back it up!
I see kids getting on the buses in Dublin all the time and handing one to the driver, You can tell the driver knows its fake but there's not a lot he can do about it and has to except it! Would nearly consider printing one myself to save me the 3k on train fares a year!!

Its quite obvious that the honest guys finish last in Ireland, What a great country we live in!!! :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

Jonmac101 wrote: »

Its quite obvious that the honest guys finish last in Ireland, What a great country we live in!!! :rolleyes:

Stories such as this make it hard for me to disagree:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jail-scam-prisoners-claiming-welfare-while-behind-bars-2801166.html
THOUSANDS of prisoners have been illegally claiming millions of euro in social welfare because their benefits are not automatically cut off when they are sent to jail.

The Irish Welfare system is a catastrophe.
I reckon it needs to be dismantled, like Fas, and built from the ground up.

maninasia

Jonmac101 wrote: »

Oh LOLS.. Those crazy Nigerians and their many schemes!!! :rolleyes:

Coincidentally, I went to college with a girl from Nigeria who has been living in Ireland for about 8yrs, She moved to Ireland from Nigeria with older her sister and they both received citizenship through the now defunct 'Irish Born Child Scam'.
She told me in order for her to be eligible for citizenship she had to pass herself off as her sisters daughter and that her sister had to sign a court affidavit to verify this "truth".
She also told me she had to sign a court affidavit when she was applying for a college grant, it was approved and she got full fees and maintenance. She used to always come into college on grant day with loads of shopping bags and a big smile on her face and she'd always ask me "How come you dont get the grant and you are Irish?":D
I did consider reporting her once altough its hard to go behind a friends back, I suppose I blame the system more than the people that abuse it.


Also the free travel scheme has to be the biggest scam in the country! all it is is a printed piece of paper in plastic pouch and you can travel anywhere in the country for free. You dont even need ID to back it up!
I see kids getting on the buses in Dublin all the time and handing to the driver, You can tell the driver knows its fake but there's not a lot he can do about it and has to except it! Would nearly consider printing one myself to save me the 3k on train fares a year!!

Its quite obvious that the honest guys finish last in Ireland, What a great country we live in!!! :rolleyes:

I'm trying to figure out how this would work, if she only arrived 8 years ago she would have had to pass herself off as a 3 year old or something, it just doesn't make sense. That loophole was also closed a few years back.
I guess what may have actually happened if this story is true is that the elder sister had an Irish born child and then the younger sister swore she was the daughter of the elder sister who was born in Nigeria and then came to Ireland by some type of 'joining family' visa.

Jonmac101

maninasia wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out how this would work, if she only arrived 8 years ago she would have had to pass herself off as a 3 year old or something, it just doesn't make sense. That loophole was also closed a few years back.
I guess what may have actually happened if this story is true is that the elder sister had an Irish born child and then the younger sister swore she was the daughter of the elder sister who was born in Nigeria and then came to Ireland by some type of 'joining family' visa.

Apologies, Just to clarify. She claimed to be the eldest child of her older sister. She moved to Ireland when she was 13yrs old. Her sister is 15yrs her senior.
When her sister had a child here, she(the mother) automatically became a citizen and any other "siblings" of the Irish born child would have automatically been entitled to citizenship at the same time.

motherriley

UK is giving amenity to illegal immigrants and the people do not want it to happen as well as one Politicians .....



http://www.dailyfinance.co.uk/2011/05/17/uk-borders-agency-lets-in-immigrants/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqRWea-hliA

fliball123

The fraud going on in this country by both nationals and non nationals alike is a joke the tax payer is being f£$ked over by these.....I urge anyone who sees anyone taking hte piss to report them ... Its a joke people are working paying there taxes and barely getting by, whilst there are those who are sitting on thier holes or doing nixers and fleecing the f$£k out of the system....Lots of Nigerian taxi drivers claiming aswell..Its a disgrace and as someone put it the honest man is being bent over and rightly shafted not only by the banks, ps, unions and gov but by a good % of those claiming benefits...Any non-Irish should be given a ticket out of here if caught regardless of having an irish kid or not

honestmemo

Hi all,We as tax payers has a duty to all honest tax payers to expose tax cheats and welfare cheats to expose them,and for quick action to be taken against them,example stop welfare payments ,large penalty or prison.and listed as fraud for all to see.The black economy is alive and well,under the counter payments for service and repair jobs done on our houses

mistermouse

By saying you have money to invest in this, I would disagree with it being a private company operation, we have a bloated public sector that should at some point be able to develop and administer their own systems.

If something like this was setup, I would expect the Government to at the same time announce a complete overhaul of the Public Sector, allowing for inefficient staff and depts to be informed on and routed out, and for the ability to sack useless public servants. The wastage in the PS is every bit as bad as the fraud costs. They however only seem to be rewarded

liammur

0din wrote: »

Hello all.

Just posting to get a feel for general interest in a site where people can anonymously submit information and/or complaints regarding individuals they know/work with who are cheating the Irish social welfare system in some way.

I know quite a few people who want to complain about people they know or work with who are also receiving social welfare payments. Their main issue is that they feel complaining about such things will expose their identity during the complaint process or that the reporting process is a lengthy procedure.

I am proposing this concept as an intermediary layer between the Irish people and the Irish government, whereby all info is forwarded on to the relevant social welfare offices without information of the original complainee.

The idea came to me this year but never materialised into anything, but I have the money to invest in such a site at the moment. When I say invest I mean investing in a better future for my children who will hopefully see a fairer economy in Ireland when they are my age. There is no doubt that people cheating the system (example - working "on the sly" and collecting dole payments or Foreign Nationals collecting multiple child benefits for the same child (yes, it happens. I've seen it)) is affecting all of our lives. I would hope that this intermediary layer would help people open up and expose these cheaters with the end result of their social welfare payments being cancelled after an investigation.

This does raise the question of - "Do the relevant departments in government have the resources and funding for such investigations?"

Basically what I am asking for from this post is for some form of input/criticism of such a site and if possible someone to point out legal issues/data protection act issues etc.

Thanks.

We need a fairer system. I wouldn't report somebody if i knew he was cheating. Why? A self employed person / employer, if their business goes bust they have no right to welfare. This is the state cheating too.

Crazy Horse 6

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

This system for reporting already exists. I used it the other day.

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Did that make you feel good?

Tea drinker

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Did that make you feel good?

Did that post make you feel good? What relevance has your comment apart from some jibe at the poster..... maybe some kids will get an education or a few potholes will be filled in because of this guys good deed.
Fianna fail and that attitude is slowly going from Ireland.

thebman

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Did that make you feel good?

Reporting the person exploiting might save the people that need it from further cuts. I think he should feel better about himself.

The government has set ambitious targets for finding welfare fraud and guess what will end up happening if they aren't met?

wild heather

Did a short stint in a B&B, welfare fraud is rife there. But the owner won't put employees through the books as she doesn't want to pay employer tax. I was let go after 3 weeks for this reason. The workers have a terrible job, no breaks, no contracts the longest staying employee was 8mths, after which either the employee left of own accord or she fired them. 20mins to strip, remake a bed, clean en suite, hoover & tidy room.
I can't report because it'll be the workers and not the owner who will suffer. If the revenue visit, apparently they only ask to see the payroll, the workers are hidden upstairs and the revenue know nothing about them.

paul71

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Did that make you feel good?

Performing a civic duty in reporting a crime would surely make anyone feel good.

books4sale

wild heather wrote: »

Did a short stint in a B&B, welfare fraud is rife there. But the owner won't put employees through the books as she doesn't want to pay employer tax. I was let go after 3 weeks for this reason. The workers have a terrible job, no breaks, no contracts the longest staying employee was 8mths, after which either the employee left of own accord or she fired them. 20mins to strip, remake a bed, clean en suite, hoover & tidy room.
I can't report because it'll be the workers and not the owner who will suffer. If the revenue visit, apparently they only ask to see the payroll, the workers are hidden upstairs and the revenue know nothing about them.

First ya went on about the terrible time these B&B employees were havin'.

....and then you went on to say, ya can't report them because the employees will suffer. So what's your friggin' point so?.....

And tonight let me present the 'Wild Heather Comedy SHow'

WooohOoHoooo , kudos all round....YEAH!

Gotta go now...pick up the hat with the capital 'D' for ya.

What's the punishment for making false accusations?

I know a guy who is unemployed and was broke, literally, week to week. He never made a penny on the side doing nixers or anything (not that he could, even if he wanted to), and someone reported him for fraud, and his entitlements were ceased until they got to the bottom of it all.

They eventually decided in his favour and back-paid him his money, but for a few weeks he was quite literally poor. Genuinely couldn't get by at all (and was too proud to openly accept help from anyone).

Jaysoose

liammur wrote: »

We need a fairer system. I wouldn't report somebody if i knew he was cheating. Why? A self employed person / employer, if their business goes bust they have no right to welfare. This is the state cheating too.

Self employed people are entitled to jobseekers allowance, I dont know where this myth that they get nothing came from buts it's simply not true that they get nothing.

srsly78

Self-employed don't have an automatic entitlement to the dole for 12 months from paying stamps like normal workers. They must cease trading, and this usually involves winding up the company/assets. Basically they can't get the dole if they are rich, shocking isn't it?

OMD

srsly78 wrote: »

Self-employed don't have an automatic entitlement to the dole for 12 months from paying stamps like normal workers. They must cease trading, and this usually involves winding up the company/assets. Basically they can't get the dole if they are rich, shocking isn't it?

Not quite rich. They don't get payments if they fail to meet the means tested targets. They may be poor just not poor enough.
Conversely the employee who looses their job could be "rich" and still be entitled to welfare payments.

cee_jay

srsly78 wrote: »

Self-employed don't have an automatic entitlement to the dole for 12 months from paying stamps like normal workers. They must cease trading, and this usually involves winding up the company/assets. Basically they can't get the dole if they are rich, shocking isn't it?

They do not have to cease trading.
Its a means tested payment, so they just have to show their means are under the limit.

Think_then_talk

Tax Defaulters list is published under Section 1086 of the Taxes Consolidation Act, 1997.& can be found on the revenue web site.
As well anyone can phone to report drugs suspicious transactions or drop them a line @ Block D, Ashtowngate, Dublin 15
I do recall a lot of laptops walking out of the same address so much for the security ...
As for the free travel pass a person useing one must have photo id for same & I have seen bus drivers asking for the photo id. No photo not travel.

thebman

wild heather wrote: »

Did a short stint in a B&B, welfare fraud is rife there. But the owner won't put employees through the books as she doesn't want to pay employer tax. I was let go after 3 weeks for this reason. The workers have a terrible job, no breaks, no contracts the longest staying employee was 8mths, after which either the employee left of own accord or she fired them. 20mins to strip, remake a bed, clean en suite, hoover & tidy room.
I can't report because it'll be the workers and not the owner who will suffer. If the revenue visit, apparently they only ask to see the payroll, the workers are hidden upstairs and the revenue know nothing about them.

Most of those things are against the employee's rights I imagine, they should talk to a lawyer if that is the case and it would probably get sorted out fairly quick.

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the punishment for making false accusations?

I know a guy who is unemployed and was broke, literally, week to week. He never made a penny on the side doing nixers or anything (not that he could, even if he wanted to), and someone reported him for fraud, and his entitlements were ceased until they got to the bottom of it all.

They eventually decided in his favour and back-paid him his money, but for a few weeks he was quite literally poor. Genuinely couldn't get by at all (and was too proud to openly accept help from anyone).

I would have thought the system would work the other way whereby you'd get paid if reported until they can prove the fraud and you owe them if your caught.

liammur

As far as I'm concerned, the like of b ahern claiming hundreds of thousands of € in expenses is welfare fraud.

naldface

liammur wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, the like of b ahern claiming hundreds of thousands of € in expenses is welfare fraud.

Robots? Would you say current technology is able to 'believe'? Is being programmed comparable to 'believing'? Which brings us back to the question of earlier: Are people some sort of computers?

liammur

naldface wrote: »

Robots? Would you say current technology is able to 'believe'? Is being programmed comparable to 'believing'? Which brings us back to the question of earlier: Are people some sort of computers?

And FG are happy for Ahern to walk away with hundreds of thousands of K, while working for developers over in China on tax payers cash. Austerity...what austerity.

naldface

liammur wrote: »

And FG are happy for Ahern to walk away with hundreds of thousands of K, while working for developers over in China on tax payers cash. Austerity...what austerity.

No. I shall not I am a believer in God the Father, and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph Smith.

liammur

naldface wrote: »

No. I shall not I am a believer in God the Father, and the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph Smith.

Joesph Smith might do a better job in tacking top end fraud

naldface

liammur wrote: »

Joesph Smith might do a better job in tacking top end fraud

Who's Joseph?

SBWife

naldface wrote: »

Who's Joseph?

Founder of The Latter Day Saints aka the Mormon Church.

Hoffmans

i used that report thingy the other day seen a politician that had claimed expenses for travel , when he was down drinking & socialising in our local pub.....

Fighting Irish

Delancey wrote: »

OP , where would boards.ie be without people like you who just luuurve to blame all of society's ills on the unemployed ?
Your idea stinks , targetting the unemployed is cowardly - why not target the bankers , developers and politicians that destroyed the country ?

The bankers, politicians and developers gave us exactly what we wanted at the time and now it's all their fault!!

thebman

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The bankers, politicians and developers gave us exactly what we wanted at the time and now it's all their fault!!

I don't think that is true, most people did not actually want a mortgage 5 or 6 times their incomes but felt like they had no choice as that is what they were being told at the time by government and media.

Idbatterim

funnily I find its usually the ones not working who defend the indefensible, i.e welfare fraud, they would probably see things differently if it was their hard earner money going towards funding all the waste here, feel free to pick any area you want! but this thread is about welfare fraud and not the likes of Fitzpatrick who and co who are a whole different topic!

How about outsourcing the detection of welfare fraud to a private company and give them a percentage of any savings and on top of that, financially reward people that give tip offs that turn out to be correct?

Jaysoose

Idbatterim wrote: »

funnily I find its usually the ones not working who defend the indefensible, i.e welfare fraud, they would probably see things differently if it was their hard earner money going towards funding all the waste here, feel free to pick any area you want! but this thread is about welfare fraud and not the likes of Fitzpatrick who and co who are a whole different topic!

How about outsourcing the detection of welfare fraud to a private company and give them a percentage of any savings and on top of that, financially reward people that give tip offs that turn out to be correct?

So we pay an outside company to do something that the public service should be doing already?

I get that we want to stamp out fraud but i think a more effective way would be for the relevant department be run in a more efficient manner as regards processing of information and stricter checks being put in place to ensure that all claims are legitimate and are verified as such.

In my own personal experience i found dealing with the dept of social a long torturous process were legitimate claimants are made to feel like they are doing something wrong. And mistakes by the staff in collating the information they are given are blamed on the claimant making the whole process longer and more complicated.

Fighting Irish

thebman wrote: »

I don't think that is true, most people did not actually want a mortgage 5 or 6 times their incomes but felt like they had no choice as that is what they were being told at the time by government and media.

lol

thebman

Fighting Irish wrote: »

lol

I don't think that qualifies as a valid post. Are you suggesting people like being in debt 5 times their salaries and more? Do you think it gave them a warm, fuzzy feeling inside to have to repay someone for the following 25 or more than likely more years of their lives?

I don't know anybody who has ever been happy to have to get a mortgage, happy to get a house but most don't want to have a mortgage or loans at all.