Salary Expectations

php-fox

I am a recent software development graduate with first class honours.

I am wondering what kind of starting salary should I be asking for?


I already have about 6 years experience in the field. While I was in college, I did a lot of work for customers. I've build 4 web sites with one of them for quite a know company that gets about 2k visitors per day.

On top of that I did a 6 months internship in the States and worked on a financial app that gets something like 30 million users a year.

Taking into account my proven experience and being a recent graduate, what should I ask for?

Thanks

whippet

I'd say starting off €20-25k would be appropriate depending on industry and the employer

Cill Dara Abu

18k-23k IMO

omahaid

Have a look here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056271098

The generally accepted figure for a recent grad is at least 25k

duckysauce

19k - 21k

everdead.ie

Hi php-fox,

It depends completely on where you are looking for a job I completed a course in IT in NUIG this year and the lowest wage that anyone in my class has started on is 24k we are looking mainly at development jobs there are a number of companies looking for Java developers in particular and some companies are paying as high as 32k.

The only issue you may have is that a number of companies seem to have a minimum leaving cert points threshold the likes of Accenture and Deloitte have a minimum 400 and Murex 450 but the pay is very very good at these firms.

There seems to be a number of jobs anyway in development Lumension in Galway is looking for C+ developers, Murex is hiring in Dublin, BSB and Guidwire are both looking for Java Developers as well. starting salaries would be in the region 0f 25-32k for all those companies

pakb1ue

I graduated there in 2010 and most of my class mates are on €30k can only think of one lad who is on less which is €25k.

Myself and another lad work in the UK so our wages are in the low 20s but the cost of living here is a lot less. I was offered a job in Dublin at 29k but I turned it down in place of my current job would stand to me a lot more. I was invited to an interview for the same company I currently work for just based in Dublin and they were offering €30k.

Raskolnikov

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that someone with experience and a first class degree should be starting on minimum wage, get real.

At a minimum, you should be looking for €25k. Ballpark €30k would probably be average for someone at your level. On rare occasions, I have heard of graduates getting €35k or so.

If you're not going to be in Dublin, you will have to reduce these figures though.

professore

Why not go to work with one of the companies you previously worked for? You have proven yourself to them so they would pay you more?

whippet

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that someone with experience and a first class degree should be starting on minimum wage, get real.

At a minimum, you should be looking for €25k. Ballpark €30k would probably be average for someone at your level. On rare occasions, I have heard of graduates getting €35k or so.

If you're not going to be in Dublin, you will have to reduce these figures though.

Let the OP hold out for the higher wage, and by the time they are offered the job they might be ready for retirment.

The sense of entitlement by some graduates is nuts theses days. Over the last decade or so there was a shortage of applicants for jobs and thus starting salaries were over inflated, the reality now is that there is a shortage of jobs ....

everdead.ie

whippet wrote: »

Let the OP hold out for the higher wage, and by the time they are offered the job they might be ready for retirment.

The sense of entitlement by some graduates is nuts theses days. Over the last decade or so there was a shortage of applicants for jobs and thus starting salaries were over inflated, the reality now is that there is a shortage of jobs ....

There isn't a shortage in the IT Sector though there are a lot of jobs available. A graduate would be very unlucky to earn less than 24/25k p.a. outside of Dublin where rent and the cost of living is cheaper the wages are generally between 25-27k in Dublin they tend to be 26-32k. Of course some companies like Cisco and IBM have interns starting on 30-34k depending on how much you impress them.

Raskolnikov

whippet wrote: »

the reality now is that there is a shortage of jobs ....

There is absolutely no shortage of jobs for graduates with good degrees in the IT sector.

I get the feeling that a lot of the silly salaries quoted are from people who are rather bitter because that's what they were first earning out of college when the IT sector wasn't great a few years back.

maglite

I've just graduated this Year from an IT course, I've already left a job where the starting was €30k for a better job in the UK that has a full training program and if offering closer to £40k.

€20k seems excessively low. Most of my class I've talked to are €25+. People need to realize Employers need good people and must pay to get them.

shoegirl

whippet wrote: »

Let the OP hold out for the higher wage, and by the time they are offered the job they might be ready for retirment.

The sense of entitlement by some graduates is nuts theses days. Over the last decade or so there was a shortage of applicants for jobs and thus starting salaries were over inflated, the reality now is that there is a shortage of jobs ....

There is a point in that.
Definitely true that Dublin jobs hold a very significant premium. Its worth noting that you can get some very good experience on lower pay if the company is otherwise good - and then leave and move on to somewhere better paid. Developers and many other IT workers do tend to move around a lot, a good starter job can deliver good experience though.

Better to get really good experience for a slightly smaller starting rate and then work up. Bear in mind that those who start people off lower *sometimes* give proportionately large increases to lower earners so they are not penalised in terms of wage reviews by percent based systems.

Secondly, higher earners are definitely going to be far up the hitlist if a reduction in force "initiative" comes along: your job will go to Bangalore a lot fastert if there is a perception that you are overpaid.

Think about the bigger picture too - what do the company do and are they doing well? What kind of facilities do they offer employees? How do they treat people on a day to day basis? What kinds of opportunities are there or are you going to be stuck doing the same thing for the rest of your life?

shoegirl

maglite wrote: »

I've just graduated this Year from an IT course, I've already left a job where the starting was €30k for a better job in the UK that has a full training program and if offering closer to £40k.

€20k seems excessively low. Most of my class I've talked to are €25+. People need to realize Employers need good people and must pay to get them.

Yes but you don't know if people are any good until they actually come and work for you. If you get hired on more than you are worth then at best you'll be left to stagnate, at worst you'll be a target for the next round of layoffs or offshoring.

plasmaguy

everdead.ie wrote: »

There isn't a shortage in the IT Sector though there are a lot of jobs available. A graduate would be very unlucky to earn less than 24/25k p.a. outside of Dublin where rent and the cost of living is cheaper the wages are generally between 25-27k in Dublin they tend to be 26-32k. Of course some companies like Cisco and IBM have interns starting on 30-34k depending on how much you impress them.

Agreed...I think your results matter though...

The OP has First Class Honours, so that definitely means he can command a higher salary than someone with lesser results.

Because of the First Class Honours result and previous experience, OP, I think you should hold out for minimum of 30k.

IT graduates are certainly plentiful. But IT graduates with First Class Honours are not so plentiful.

As for IBM, they might be a good company to start off with, but it's difficult to get promotion and a payrise and its easy to get lost due to their size.

whippet

whippet wrote: »

Let the OP hold out for the higher wage, and by the time they are offered the job they might be ready for retirment.

The sense of entitlement by some graduates is nuts theses days. Over the last decade or so there was a shortage of applicants for jobs and thus starting salaries were over inflated, the reality now is that there is a shortage of jobs ....

No, this attitude towards graduates is nuts. Why would anyone go to college and bust their arse for several years to get excellent results, only to graduate and feel fortunate to get the minimum wage? How is expecting a salary above poverty level having a 'sense of entitlement'? The guy has a first class honours and some decent experience behind him and you think he should be working for the same money as a shelf stacker in Supervalu? Get real. I have an Arts degree and I've never been on as little as you seem to think is reasonable. I would be looking for 25K minimum if I were OP and he could probably get quite a bit more.

maninasia

It's nothing to do with entitlement, you just hold out for what you think the market can stand.

fatboypee

Evelyn Jealous Shelter wrote: »

No, this attitude towards graduates is nuts. Why would anyone go to college and bust their arse for several years to get excellent results, only to graduate and feel fortunate to get the minimum wage? How is expecting a salary above poverty level having a 'sense of entitlement'? The guy has a first class honours and some decent experience behind him and you think he should be working for the same money as a shelf stacker in Supervalu? Get real. I have an Arts degree and I've never been on as little as you seem to think is reasonable. I would be looking for 25K minimum if I were OP and he could probably get quite a bit more.

Sorry, have to interject here.

In the modern age, in any discipline, to promote your CV higher than the next person with a degree, you are looking at a masters qualification.

There is no value per-say in a degree, outside of the discipline in which it it is earned other than to indicate to an employer that you are able to learn, absorb and process information at a standard required by the position for which you are applying. There is NO automatic entitlement to earn anything other than the rate dictated by the market for the position for which you are applying whether you have a degree or not.

This is especially true in the IT field.

Of course, someone who has completed a degree would feel they are worth more than a person who has not, however, in this day and age, the only difference a degree itself makes is simply access to the job. After that, the market rate is, the market rate.

keane2097

lol at the people saying < 25K

fatboypee

keane2097 wrote: »

lol at the people saying < 25K

Why ?

keane2097

fatboypee wrote: »

Why ?

Because they're lowballing (or more likely have been lowballed by their employers).

For someone with the OPs qualifications he'll be getting 30K no bother.

fatboypee

keane2097 wrote: »

Because they're lowballing (or more likely have been lowballed by their employers).

For someone with the OPs qualifications he'll be getting 30K no bother.

Really ?

Salaries are dependent upon on the market place, the role, the location and the industry.

It is the market and the role offered that dictate the rate and not whether somebody has a degree, (high, or low).

keane2097

fatboypee wrote: »

Really ?

Really.

fatboypee wrote: »

Salaries are dependent upon on the market place, the role, the location and the industry.

It is the market and the role offered that dictate the rate and not whether somebody has a degree, (high, or low).

Thanks for the info.

fatboypee

keane2097 wrote: »

Really.
Thanks for the info.

Did you learn sarcasm while doing your degree ? If so, I would asking for a refund if I were you.

keane2097

fatboypee wrote: »

Did you learn sarcasm while doing your degree ? If so, I would asking for a refund if I were you.

Do you think your last post was in some way illuminating?

How were you expecting me to respond to it?

fatboypee

keane2097 wrote: »

Do you think your last post was in some way illuminating?

How were you expecting me to respond to it?

Perhaps about as illuminating as this, somewhat derisory comment perhaps:

lol at the people saying < 25K

keane2097

And the circle is complete.

@OP: 30K.

fatboypee

keane2097 wrote: »

And the circle is complete.

@OP: 30K.

Damn shame there is'nt a yawn smiley really. Posting such inane derisive comments and then, clearly irked, following up with such a witless attempt at sarcasm as befits a 15 year old? Wow, I'd definitely hire you. for 30k a year.

Cheap at double the price really.

keane2097

fatboypee wrote: »

Damn shame there is'nt a yawn smiley really. Posting such inane derisive comments and then, clearly irked, following up with such a witless attempt at sarcasm as befits a 15 year old? Wow, I'd definitely hire you. for 30k a year.

Cheap at double the price really.

Tyvm.

x43r0

I'm in a similar situation to the OP (IT degree + Just finished a business masters 2 weeks ago) but with nowhere near a 1st class and no industry experience


I'm starting work on Friday in an IT role on €41k


OP has a much better record than me by the looks of it so imo he shouldn't undersell himself. I probably lucked out with that salary but the OP should be looking for €30k at the VERY least

keane2097

x43r0 wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to the OP (IT degree + Just finished a business masters 2 weeks ago) but with nowhere near a 1st class and no industry experience


I'm starting work on Friday in an IT role on €41k


OP has a much better record than me by the looks of it so imo he shouldn't undersell himself. I probably lucked out with that salary but the OP should be looking for €30k at the VERY least

QED

x43r0

keane2097 wrote: »

QED

You'll have to excuse me, I have no idea what that means

keane2097

x43r0 wrote: »

You'll have to excuse me, I have no idea what that means

Ha, no worries - it's a Latin initialism standing for "quod erat demonstrandum", basically meaning "what was to be demonstrated".

In this instance, I'm essentially using it to say "this has proven what I was saying".

x43r0

keane2097 wrote: »

Ha, no worries - it's a Latin initialism standing for "quod erat demonstrandum", basically meaning "what was to be demonstrated".

In this instance, I'm essentially using it to say "this has proven what I was saying".

Ah thanks, I'm not the quickest!

yawha

Yeah, screw underselling yourself and ignore the "sense of entitlement" and "in this economic climate..." type begrudgery. The IT sector is fine and decent graduates are in short supply.

If you were a graduate with minimal experience, maybe a placement or a summer internship under your belt, I'd say €30k+ for the big companies (Microsoft openly advertise a €33k starting salary for graduates on their site, for example), and maybe a little less for a smaller company. However, with a first class honours degree and the very impressive experience you say you have, I'd be looking for higher than that.

neil_hosey

Doing small websites in your spare time is a far cry from enterprise development..

if you are talking about a development job, with a first, id say you should start around 27-28000 (25 grand is normal for lower grades). If you get 30, all well but you will be one of the lucky ones, or maybe IBM/MS/one of the big companies

I know what grads earn as I was one 5 years ago and have known how much GRADS have earned in the 3 companies ive worked in.

Going out with an expectation of earning 30 - 35 grand with zero industrial experience (placement doesnt count) is feckin crazy. Get into a good company with good technologies, thats the most important thing your first year or 2 will determine what route you will take in future (ie language/platform/etc..)

Dont become redundent before you have any experience... you may get offered a job for 35K in programming vb6, if you take something like that, youll screw urself up for future jobs, your skills will be outdated.

MysticalRain

keane2097 wrote: »

And the circle is complete.

@OP: 30K.

Just out of curiosity, what did you start on when you graduated?

keane2097

MysticalRain wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what did you start on when you graduated?

29500 gross, plus bonuses, stock plan, health insurance and pension.

EDIT: with a second class bachelors degree fwiw.

mickman

keane2097 wrote: »

29500 gross, plus bonuses, stock plan, health insurance and pension.

EDIT: with a second class bachelors degree fwiw.

IT is booming - guy with good degree and no experience would be 30k. anyone with experience is 30++++++++++++++

daigo75

keane2097 wrote: »

29500 gross, plus bonuses, stock plan, health insurance and pension.

EDIT: with a second class bachelors degree fwiw.

That seems good to me!
I still remember mine, taking inflation & co. into account it was the equivalent of today's 20k (which included a couple of overtime hours a day and indemnity for business travel). I'd say 30k is a good starting figure.

ILikeBananas

I've just graduated with an IT and maths related Masters and have made it past the first round in two applications that I've recently submitted. The two of them are on opposite ends of the pay spectrum though. The lower one pays 23k whilst the upper one pays 40k! Knowing that there are employers out there who are potentially willing to offer me that would make it tough to accept the lower paid job.

cronos

ILikeBananas wrote: »

I've just graduated with an IT and maths related Masters and have made it past the first round in two applications that I've recently submitted. The two of them are on opposite ends of the pay spectrum though. The lower one pays 23k whilst the upper one pays 40k! Knowing that there are employers out there who are potentially willing to offer me that would make it tough to accept the lower paid job.

Out of interest can you say what industry the company is in that offered 40k? Sounds good!

cronos

x43r0 wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to the OP (IT degree + Just finished a business masters 2 weeks ago) but with nowhere near a 1st class and no industry experience


I'm starting work on Friday in an IT role on €41k


OP has a much better record than me by the looks of it so imo he shouldn't undersell himself. I probably lucked out with that salary but the OP should be looking for €30k at the VERY least

Again very curious what industry you can get 41k as a grad in. It's quite impressive.

x43r0

cronos wrote: »

Again very curious what industry you can get 41k as a grad in. It's quite impressive.

Mines in financial services. I work in an investment bank

ILikeBananas

cronos wrote: »

Out of interest can you say what industry the company is in that offered 40k? Sounds good!

financial services

HerbSimpson

Lol at people thinking they should be paid a high starting salary because they're well qualified and worth it, tell that to architecture graduates.

The IT market is strong here at the moment which is why starting salaries are pretty good not because you're worth it. Basic supply and demand.

x43r0

HerbSimpson wrote: »

The IT market is strong here at the moment which is why starting salaries are pretty good not because you're worth it. Basic supply and demand.

For the record, I'm not 'here' so to speak. I'm based in London for work. I found the market there stronger. That's not to say the Irish market is poor, I just found the attitudes of Irish companies to be a bit crap. I found a lot of companies using the recession as an excuse to drive down wages when they were actually still performing quite well. I didn't like that at all

php-fox

HerbSimpson wrote: »

Lol at people thinking they should be paid a high starting salary because they're well qualified and worth it, tell that to architecture graduates.

The IT market is strong here at the moment which is why starting salaries are pretty good not because you're worth it. Basic supply and demand.

Troll alarms.

The worthiness of an employee is determined by the market and person's abilities.
Architecture graduates have my sympathy.

BTW. I never got back to you guys with my outcome.
I got a job with ~40k salary. Dublin (Read my opening post)

php-fox

php-fox wrote: »

Troll alarms.

The worthiness of an employee is determined by the market and person's abilities.
Architecture graduates have my sympathy.

BTW. I never got back to you guys with my outcome.
I got a job with ~40k salary. Dublin (Read my opening post)

To be honest with you, anyone saying you'd be on less than 35K with the experience you had would have been 1) trolling or 2) clueless.

Fair play to you.

cronos

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest with you, anyone saying you'd be on less than 35K with the experience you had would have been 1) trolling or 2) clueless.

Fair play to you.

I think people ignored the fact he said he had 6 years related experience and just saw the word graduate and even a graduate with no experience would have commanded a better pay deal.