Plans to put in driveway

kkelly77

At the moment I only have on street parking where I live. I have a garden that could easily accommodate parking a car but it only has pedestrian access. I would love to have a driveway and I am considering starting the work myself and then call in the experts to finish things off.

As you can see from the photo attached, I have an odd shaped garden. The total area is about 40m2. Like everyone else, I'm trying to save a few quid which is why I'm considering doing some of the work myself. I figure I could -

- Break up the front wall, from pillar on the left across to the neighbours on the right
- Break up the path from gate to front door
- Remove topsoil from grass area

Is there anything I could do after that prior to calling in the pro's?
There is only one drain under the down pipe from the gutter. Would I need to have a rain gully put in? (The garden slopes down from the gate towards the house.)
What would be the cheapest, most effective finish? Concrete? Asphalt?
What sort of prices per metre would I be looking at?

Thanks for the advice.

P.S. I'd like to keep the holly growing along the longest part of the wall.

paddy147

You need planning permission 1st.

kkelly77

paddy147 wrote: »

You need planning permission 1st.

Really? I came across another "driveway" thread that mentioned private vehicular parking was exempt from requiring planning permission. Is this not the case? I'll try and find that thread again.

Edit:Link to related thread. So I would have to apply to the CC to have the path lowered?

harry21

Paddy is quite correct... Planning permission is needed, and depending on where you are the developement plans are normally against :eek: changing front garden space to parking space!!

kkelly77

harry21 wrote: »

Paddy is quite correct... Planning permission is needed, and depending on where you are the developement plans are normally against :eek: changing front garden space to parking space!!

Several other houses on the road have it done. Although some of them haven't had the kerb dropped. Just a load of concrete laid down to form a make shift ramp.

Any advice on my original post?

tipptom

Is to left side of the wall a neighbors property?,the entry point looks very narrow,were you looking to park your car?.I think to put in a drop kerb out on the footpath that along with the planning that the council insist that they insall the drops and they like to charge a pretty penny for it,propably knock 3 days out of it with a 3 man gang,compessor,lorry and whatever else they can land outside your house.

kkelly77

tipptom wrote: »

Is to left side of the wall a neighbors property?,the entry point looks very narrow,were you looking to park your car?.I think to put in a drop kerb out on the footpath that along with the planning that the council insist that they insall the drops and they like to charge a pretty penny for it,propably knock 3 days out of it with a 3 man gang,compessor,lorry and whatever else they can land outside your house.

To the left of the wall is the footpath and a large area at the end of the cul de sac. The entry point I'm looking to knock out at the entrance gate will measure 3-3.5m. Looking to drive the car straight into the proposed drive and park as close to the house as possible. Any idea how much for the privilege of having the CC drop the kerb?

tipptom

kkelly77 wrote: »

To the left of the wall is the footpath and a large area at the end of the cul de sac. The entry point I'm looking to knock out at the entrance gate will measure 3-3.5m. Looking to drive the car straight into the proposed drive and park as close to the house as possible. Any idea how much for the privilege of having the CC drop the kerb?

Geez,wouldnt have a clue about what they would charge,but its a fairly simple job,break out 5 existing kerbs and their concrete bed,put back in a taper kerb each side and 3 drops,kerbs are about €4.50 each but i would say as its council property there is insurance issues and all that palaver.The rest of them seem to get away with just putting in a concrete ramp against the existing kerbs.I dont see any problem in getting a skip and putting in a bit of time digging it out yourself nice and steady and if the ground is fairly solid underneath the topsoil you might not have to go to deep and then a small lorryload of about 3 ton of 804,(about €15 a ton +del) and whack it down.For the fall back in you could t off the gully pipe with a new gully.these days i would say you would get a crowd to dig that out with a mini digger put 804 back in and tar that for about €1200.Need to know a bit about the crowd though before you let them in.

harry21

You would be well able to do more if not all the work yourself, depending on the finished surface.

Oh, the councils won't generally let you loase more than 50% of your front garden to parking.

I'll be back later to post again.

jakmoon

Can you post another picture of the driveway from the front of your property please and there seems like a telecoms chamber outside the house,is that so as from the picture shown it seems like it has this might have a bearing on the drop kerbs etc...

kkelly77

jakmoon wrote: »

Can you post another picture of the driveway from the front of your property please and there seems like a telecoms chamber outside the house,is that so as from the picture shown it seems like it has this might have a bearing on the drop kerbs etc...

Is this what you are referring to? (see red arrow in pic). If it is, that is an ESB marked box.

[URL=" Uploaded with ImageShack.us

jakmoon

Thanks for that, as the other replys said the main issue will be getting planning permission for the dropped kerbs,the job itself is straight forward and i would guess the cost would be around 1500 euros all in.Good luck with the project.

kkelly77

Just wanted to add a couple more photos. As you can see there is only one drain.

As the garden slopes down from the existing gate towards the house, I assume I would have to lay rain gullies on either side of the garden and one running across the front of the house?

backboiler

kkelly77 wrote: »

To the left of the wall is the footpath and a large area at the end of the cul de sac. The entry point I'm looking to knock out at the entrance gate will measure 3-3.5m. Looking to drive the car straight into the proposed drive and park as close to the house as possible. Any idea how much for the privilege of having the CC drop the kerb?

No idea where you are but Dublin City Council will want €556, after your planning comes through. http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/ROADMAINTENANCE/Pages/VehicleAccess.aspx.
Maybe your council's site has a similar section.

paddy147

backboiler wrote: »

No idea where you are but Dublin City Council will want €556, after your planning comes through. http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/ROADMAINTENANCE/Pages/VehicleAccess.aspx.
Maybe your council's site has a similar section.

They have you by the balls there,thats an absolute ripp off,especially in this day and age.

kkelly77

Got a quote for €2400 for printed concrete (44m2) :eek:

€54 per square metre!!! Can't be right?

paddy147

backboiler wrote: »

No idea where you are but Dublin City Council will want €556, after your planning comes through. http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/ROADMAINTENANCE/Pages/VehicleAccess.aspx.
Maybe your council's site has a similar section.

Would they still charge that amount if you had an existing driveway and slope and just wanted to widen the slope a bit more???

Surely not??

tipptom

kkelly77 wrote: »

Got a quote for €2400 for printed concrete (44m2) :eek:

€54 per square metre!!! Can't be right?

does that include dig out and the drain as well?.

kkelly77

tipptom wrote: »

does that include dig out and the drain as well?.

I would hope so. I've emailed them back to clarify.

kkelly77

Contacted the planning department in the county council for information about what exact planning I needed and the cost of the application.

In the nutshell, they didn't seem to have a clue. I was told I needed planning for both the garden work and dropping the kerb. I said that I have a copy of the planning and development regulations which states putting a driveway into a private house for no more than 2 vehicles is exempt from planning. The CC said I should include it in the planning application "just to be on the safe side". When I asked would it cost extra to include it and how much more, they didn't know.

In the end I was passed to some employees voicemail. I left a message. Who knows if they'll call back :rolleyes:?

tipptom

kkelly77 wrote: »

Contacted the planning department in the county council for information about what exact planning I needed and the cost of the application.

In the nutshell, they didn't seem to have a clue. I was told I needed planning for both the garden work and dropping the kerb. I said that I have a copy of the planning and development regulations which states putting a driveway into a private house for no more than 2 vehicles is exempt from planning. The CC said I should include it in the planning application "just to be on the safe side". When I asked would it cost extra to include it and how much more, they didn't know.

In the end I was passed to some employees voicemail. I left a message. Who knows if they'll call back :rolleyes:?

I think that is more a reflection on the amount of people who go to them to get ripped of,i would say if you done a little poll around the area of the people who have converted i would say they would be fairly coy about talking about how the they went about their "planning".

harry21

kkelly77 wrote: »

I said that I have a copy of the planning and development regulations which states putting a driveway into a private house for no more than 2 vehicles is exempt from planning

Have you? Can you tell me whcih section?... I never heard of that?Genuinely Opening a new vehicular entrance onto a public road requires planning permission, of that I am certain.

Regarding you comments about drains, no need for drains on all sides, just run one eco-drain along the side nearest the house, and make sure the fall is toward the drain.

Would you consider doing the work yourself?

kkelly77

harry21 wrote: »

Have you? Can you tell me whcih section?... I never heard of that?Genuinely Opening a new vehicular entrance onto a public road requires planning permission, of that I am certain.

Regarding you comments about drains, no need for drains on all sides, just run one eco-drain along the side nearest the house, and make sure the fall is toward the drain.

Would you consider doing the work yourself?

I've attached the regulations I have. The exemption is listed on page 158, Class 6.

I would consider doing the ground clearance and laying the 804 myself to keep costs down. However, I've never done any work like this. Just have the theory as to what to do.

kkelly77

Got another quote from a different printed concrete company. €3,400!!!!

I thought this was meant to be a cheaper option finish for a driveway?!?

tipptom

kkelly77 wrote: »

Got another quote from a different printed concrete company. €3,400!!!!

I thought this was meant to be a cheaper option finish for a driveway?!?

No,its not the cheaper option,there is a bit of work involved in it but you are looking at 4" of solid concrete with a coloured printed finish,should work out about €45 a sq metre but would expect a full dig out for that.You could concrete it yorself if you got a fella with you for the day who has screeded and finished concrete before.Your area would take about 4 cu metres of concrete at about €70 a meter,maybe throw in a couple of bags of coloured pigment(about €90 a bag) in to the lorry if they let you and it would give a bit of colour to it.

kkelly77

tipptom wrote: »

No,its not the cheaper option,there is a bit of work involved in it but you are looking at 4" of solid concrete with a coloured printed finish,should work out about €45 a sq metre but would expect a full dig out for that.You could concrete it yorself if you got a fella with you for the day who has screeded and finished concrete before.Your area would take about 4 cu metres of concrete at about €70 a meter,maybe throw in a couple of bags of coloured pigment(about €90 a bag) in to the lorry if they let you and it would give a bit of colour to it.

At €45 a square metre, that comes to €1980. A bit far off the couple of quotes I've gotten so far.

paddy147

This inprinted concrete finish does take maintanance,as in looking after it.

My neighbour rekons its the worst decision he made,he now wants to change to paving brick driveway.The frost and snow ruined the colour and it looks shyte a year later on.Hes sick of it now.

I went for a paving brick driveway (dark slate with light grey border) as I think red brick is everywhere these days,so I just wanted to be a bit different to the norm.

harry21

kkelly77 wrote: »

I've attached the regulations I have. The exemption is listed on page 158, Class 6.

Cheers, it read as I thought, it just the provision of a hardsurface. As I said the planning part is for the entrance to a public road.

Just reading paddies post there and I agree impregnated concrete is possibly a whole load of hassle. You would screed your area comfortably but you would definately need a hand. You could put a sime bruch finish on it at it would be fine.

You could also consider a macadam driveway, might be cheaper!

kkelly77

paddy147 wrote: »

My neighbour rekons its the worst decision he made,he now wants to change to paving brick driveway.The frost and snow ruined the colour and it looks shyte a year later on.Hes sick of it now.

Could it just need to be resealed? I've searched on a few different forums and a lot of people that got it done are happy with the end product.

harry21 wrote: »

You could also consider a macadam driveway, might be cheaper!

I don't have a lot of confidence in macadam TBH. I know a few people who have it and it just doesn't seem to last.

lemonade1

you might get a brick drive for that price.Check it out its a much better job and good bricks will survive bad weather like we had last year.

hesker

If you get a 40m2 properly laid brick drive for €2400 you'd be doing well.

I'm doing my own of similar size at the moment and materials and gear hire runs to about €1800. It's a lot of work to do it right.

Good quality 60mm paving blocks from Kilsaran or Tobermore will run you to €700-1000 for 30-40m2.

You'll hear loads of people telling you they can get it for 50 quid.

paddy147

Driveway/garden dug up,10 tons of 804 hardcore,7 tons of sharp sand,6 bags of slica sand,2 large rolls of Mypex barrier and 54 square meters of 60mm Kilsaran slane and raven pavers fitted cost me just on 4K euro.

That also included Bord Gais comming out to slightly reroute and sink the natural gas pipe further down into the ground,so that the paving could be installed down along the side of the house.

hesker

Paddy

Did you have contractors in to lay the 804, sand & blocks..i.e. what was labour cost

paddy147

hesker wrote: »

Paddy

Did you have contractors in to lay the 804, sand & blocks..i.e. what was labour cost

That was the all in price from the builder to do the job.Oh and that included the builder bulding new boundary walsl for me too (sourced the 4 inch solid blocks and cappings myself).

The boundary walls were built with 4 inch solids laid flat on the side to make a 4 foot high 9 inch thck solid wall.Driveway piers were built the same way and are 5 feet high.Walls and driveway piers were then plastered with white coloured smooth plaster.

The builder is a friend of mine.