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Dubhlinn, Dyflinn, Linn Dubh

  • 08-07-2011 5:26pm
    #1
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    There is a thread in another forum (History & Heritage, I think) discussing why Dublin is Baile Atha Cliath in Irish and not (an) Dubh Linn. Presumably one was an area at the ford of the hurdles and the other was the black pool where the Poddle met the Liffey.
    I am curious as to how the two Irish words for the black pool became reversed - should it not be (an) Linn Dubh?


Comments

  • #2
    Enkidu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Enkidu


    slowburner wrote: »
    There is a thread in another forum (History & Heritage, I think) discussing why Dublin is Baile Atha Cliath in Irish and not (an) Dubh Linn. Presumably one was an area at the ford of the hurdles and the other was the black pool where the Poddle met the Liffey.
    I am curious as to how the two Irish words for the black pool became reversed - should it not be (an) Linn Dubh?
    In Old Irish the adjective could come before the noun when they formed a compound noun*, so
    Linn Dhubh = Black Pool, a pool which is black. (Dubh has a h, because Linn is feminine)
    Dubhlinn = Black Pool, a specific type of pool.

    Think of "a blue berry" vs. "a blueberry".

    *This is still true for some adjectives in Modern Irish.


  • #3
    Micilin Muc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Micilin Muc


    Another theory I've read is that the area was never known as Dubhlinn, but as Áth Cliath Dubhlinne, the name being part of the analogy of the two ends of the Esker Riada, the other end being Áth Cliath Mearaí (present-day Maree in Galway). Interestingly, the name Áth Cliath on its own is a misnomer, the present Dublin GAA jerseys having the wrong name of the county on their collar as Gaeilge.


  • #4
    tac foley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    It's fascinating to me to think that as far apart as modern Irish and Welsh have gotten, the words for 'black' and 'pool' are still so much alike - even though the modern Welsh still retains the original word order - n-adj -even in place names.

    Linn Dhubh

    and

    Llyn-Ddu [actually 'black lake', but near enough for government work...]

    Needless to say, as Enkidu points out so well, there remain many words in both Irish and Welsh that have Latin roots - Lyfr/libra = book is one such common word.

    Sorry, I'll go back to sleep now.

    tac


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