Raptor in Roscommon

BB_1983

Hi,
I was driving the other day and I spotted a bird gliding over head, I pulled in and got a good look, it was an impressive bird with a large wingspan, much bigger then anything else Ive seen in the wild before, it glided on over a field then started to circle going higher and higher, then assumed like a hunting position high up, it had very distinctive markings on the underside of the wings, it had like white dashes going through the dark wings. I have searched online and a red kite seems the one but Ive read that they are still very localised around wicklow? and im not sure how big they would be? it was spotted around 3 miles from lough ree between athlone and roscommon? I have only recently developed an interest in these types of birds so I dont know what I saw, ive seen kestrels etc and it wasnt anything like that and was much larger,.would it be possible for a red kite to be here or are there any eagles in this area? Thanks for any help.

Bsal

There is a good chance its a Buzzard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_v9tVIF7QwZQ/S9GB0v5lfgI/AAAAAAAABBk/A6GWqhUbeLc/s1600/Common-Buzzard-300_000.jpg

whyulittle

ooooooh Buzzard near Athlone, nice one!

By the way I've come across this website lately, good for reports of local wildlife.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Sounds like a Buzzard

OpenYourEyes

Out of curiosity was it closer to Athlone or Roscommon?


A friend of mine is always telling me about a resident bird of prey on his farmland in Lecarrow, but he's fairly useless when I ask him any details in an attempt to identify it!

Berger1

That was a Buzzard.

BB_1983

Could have been judging by the pics, cheers for replies. What size would a typical buzzard be? This was big. <@ open your eyes> probably the same bird I was within a mile or 2 of there, will be worth keeping an eye out so!!

Birdnuts

BB_1983 wrote: »

. What size would a typical buzzard be? !!

Roughly the seize of a Raven

vindaloo1

BB_1983 wrote: »

Hi,
I was driving the other day and I spotted a bird gliding over head, I pulled in and got a good look, it was an impressive bird with a large wingspan, much bigger then anything else Ive seen in the wild before, it glided on over a field then started to circle going higher and higher, then assumed like a hunting position high up, it had very distinctive markings on the underside of the wings, it had like white dashes going through the dark wings. I have searched online and a red kite seems the one but Ive read that they are still very localised around wicklow? and im not sure how big they would be? it was spotted around 3 miles from lough ree between athlone and roscommon? I have only recently developed an interest in these types of birds so I dont know what I saw, ive seen kestrels etc and it wasnt anything like that and was much larger,.would it be possible for a red kite to be here or are there any eagles in this area? Thanks for any help.

We were out walking today, Roscommon side of Lough Ree and saw something similar. From what we saw, and saw after in bird books, would have thought it was a red kite. Maybe it was a buzzard. A big bird though.
Strangely enough, there was a forestry & wildlife vehicle around today too.

megadodge

I saw a buzzard on the outskirts of Roscommon town only a few weeks ago. I'm pretty certain of it and have reported it to goldeneagle.ie and it has been verified.

However, only today I was talking to a couple who know I'm into birds and they were walking near their house today, which is close to Lough Ree and they saw a bird they both described as "huge". Without being 100% certain they felt it was too big to be a buzzard. They also noticed a forestry & wildlife vehicle, probably the same one as mentioned above.

Now, I'm obviously not certain either, but with the recent nesting of WTSE on Lough Derg and this being on the shores of Lough Ree and with forestry & wildlife rangers snooping around, there's a distinct possibility that it could be a WTSE.

Here's hoping.

dodderangler

Buzzards look huge but they not that big and have tiny feet makes them useless hunters mainly scavengers never heard of kites over there see them in Wicklow regularly and their much the same scavengers

Traonach

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards look huge but they not that big and have tiny feet makes them useless hunters mainly scavengers never heard of kites over there see them in Wicklow regularly and their much the same scavengers

For "useless" hunters they are adept at rabbit hunting. Don't you keep a Harris Hawk? Aren't they good hunters?

dodderangler

Traonach wrote: »

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards look huge but they not that big and have tiny feet makes them useless hunters mainly scavengers never heard of kites over there see them in Wicklow regularly and their much the same scavengers

For "useless" hunters they are adept at rabbit hunting. Don't you keep a Harris Hawk? Aren't they good hunters?

Buzzards are not great at catching rabbits especially fully grown rabbits maybe take a young rabbit but sure a raven can do that aswell
And yeah I have a Harris hawk and not many raptors out there can match a Harris hawk at catching rabbits their exceptional at hunting rabbits among other animals

Traonach

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards are not great at catching rabbits especially fully grown rabbits maybe take a young rabbit but sure a raven can do that aswell
And yeah I have a Harris hawk and not many raptors out there can match a Harris hawk at catching rabbits their exceptional at hunting rabbits among other animals

Buzzards will take adult rabbits with ease. Your Harris hawk is basically a buzzard species.

BB_1983

Hi,

Just to go back to this one, I'm fairly new to all this, only really developed an interest around a year or so ago and didn't know very much at the time. Since op post I have learnt a bit more about the birds and seen many buzzards, different sizes, none however were near the size of the bird I saw that day. I dont think it was a kite because I dont think the tail matched. I don't think it was a buzzard now because of the size judging on the ones ive seen since and Ive seen a good few at this stage. I see were sightings of a wtse around lough owel too,. maybe?

dodderangler

Traonach wrote: »

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards are not great at catching rabbits especially fully grown rabbits maybe take a young rabbit but sure a raven can do that aswell
And yeah I have a Harris hawk and not many raptors out there can match a Harris hawk at catching rabbits their exceptional at hunting rabbits among other animals

Buzzards will take adult rabbits with ease. Your Harris hawk is basically a buzzard species.

My Harris hawk is from the buteo family yea but a buzzard will not take a rabbit with ease their small feet make it hard to hold onto a rabbit therefore after fails to kill rabbits a buzzard will generally hunt smaller prey ie rats or start scavenging
There's a reason why buzzards are not generally used by falconers as they are not good for hunting only display work

Birdnuts

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards look huge but they not that big and have tiny feet makes them useless hunters mainly scavengers never heard of kites over there see them in Wicklow regularly and their much the same scavengers

Thats true - there actually smaller then a raven but often look bigger cos of their large wings. Its even more extreme with Kites who weigh barely 2 pounds and are all tail and wings.

Birdnuts

Traonach wrote: »

For "useless" hunters they are adept at rabbit hunting. Don't you keep a Harris Hawk? Aren't they good hunters?

To me Harris Hawks are more like Goshawks then buzzards - powerfully built with great speed. Buzzards appear slow, weak and cumbersome in comparison. Just my impression from hanging out with a falconer mate of mine.

dodderangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Traonach wrote: »

For "useless" hunters they are adept at rabbit hunting. Don't you keep a Harris Hawk? Aren't they good hunters?

To me Harris Hawks are more like Goshawks then buzzards - powerfully built with great speed. Buzzards appear slow, weak and cumbersome in comparison. Just my impression from hanging out with a falconer mate of mine.

Like a goshawk? u must've seen some seriously fast Harris hawk just kiddin they are fast but not faster than a gos but goshawks are from accipiter family also known as true hawks
Harris hawks are from buteo family aka buzzards
Buzzards are quite slow tho my mate seen one take off after a pigeon with speed didn't catch it tho
But yeah your right harris's are a lot faster than a buzzard so I can see what you mean in terms of speed

vindaloo1

We thought it might be kite due to wingspan, only thing near it was an eagle, but thought nothing of it.

Turns out a tagged WTSE was seen twice in same location in February.

http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=222

vindaloo1

megadodge wrote: »

I saw a buzzard on the outskirts of Roscommon town only a few weeks ago. I'm pretty certain of it and have reported it to goldeneagle.ie and it has been verified.

However, only today I was talking to a couple who know I'm into birds and they were walking near their house today, which is close to Lough Ree and they saw a bird they both described as "huge". Without being 100% certain they felt it was too big to be a buzzard. They also noticed a forestry & wildlife vehicle, probably the same one as mentioned above.

Now, I'm obviously not certain either, but with the recent nesting of WTSE on Lough Derg and this being on the shores of Lough Ree and with forestry & wildlife rangers snooping around, there's a distinct possibility that it could be a WTSE.

Here's hoping.

That'll be me - we noticed a tagged WTSE was seen around there in February so maybe it was down for the match yesterday. Although that performance may have scared it off for good.

vindaloo1

vindaloo1 wrote: »

We thought it might be kite due to wingspan, only thing near it was an eagle, but thought nothing of it.

Turns out a tagged WTSE was seen twice in same location in February.

http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=222

This tagged WTSE not too far away either, spotted around Lough Ree:
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=186

A couple of years ago now since the one above was spotted, but hopefully it was a WTSE we saw.
At least they have been recorded in the area.

michaelmouse

I hate trying to explain bird sightings without photographic evidence. Plus im sure people think im bullshi**ing sometimes. Looking forward to get some pics posted up here. New to the sport but keen and eager! Have some savage birds of prey to snap. Ps does WTSE stand for white tipped sea eagle? Please tell me otherwise.. there are a lot of abbreviations on here...

Bsal

Hi michaelmouse, welcome to the world of birds . They can be quite addictive to watch and identify. I look forward to seeing your photos in the near future, birds of prey are spectacular to watch. WTSE means White tailed sea eagle.

michaelmouse

Thanks Bsal... ill upload any pics i get... cant wait to get crackin

vindaloo1

vindaloo1 wrote: »

This tagged WTSE not too far away either, spotted around Lough Ree:
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=186

A couple of years ago now since the one above was spotted, but hopefully it was a WTSE we saw.
At least they have been recorded in the area.

Told by a park ranger there is an eagle and 3 buzzards in the area where we sat what we think is an eagle.

Saw the buzzard a few times.

Also saw birds hovering above the roadside in Lecarrow and Athlone (coming off M6 by Elan) recently while driving through . Judging by comments in other threads, these are buzzards too rather than kestrels.

dodderangler

vindaloo1 wrote: »

vindaloo1 wrote: »

This tagged WTSE not too far away either, spotted around Lough Ree:
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=186

A couple of years ago now since the one above was spotted, but hopefully it was a WTSE we saw.
At least they have been recorded in the area.

Told by a park ranger there is an eagle and 3 buzzards in the area where we sat what we think is an eagle.

Saw the buzzard a few times.

Also saw birds hovering above the roadside in Lecarrow and Athlone (coming off M6 by Elan) recently while driving through . Judging by comments in other threads, these are buzzards too rather than kestrels.

Buzzards don't hover they soar like vultures do in circles they Havint the strength to hover as they are too heavy
Kestrels weigh up to 215grams for a female
Very light and easy to hover
So it was a kestrel not buzzard

vindaloo1

dodderangler wrote: »

Buzzards don't hover they soar like vultures do in circles they Havint the strength to hover as they are too heavy
Kestrels weigh up to 215grams for a female
Very light and easy to hover
So it was a kestrel not buzzard

so this is incorrect then?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79352581&postcount=11

michaelmouse

I thought there was a massive size difference?

WildIreland

dodderangler wrote: »

My Harris hawk is from the buteo family yea but a buzzard will not take a rabbit with ease their small feet make it hard to hold onto a rabbit therefore after fails to kill rabbits a buzzard will generally hunt smaller prey ie rats or start scavenging
There's a reason why buzzards are not generally used by falconers as they are not good for hunting only display work

No, buzzards regularly take rabbits... I've seen them take adult rabbits no bother at all. They will take carrion, like most raptors, but they are also superb hunters. They wouldn't be Britain's most common raptor if they couldn't hunt effectively.

Buzzards are about the same size as Harris hawks, and have similar sized powerful talons, so not sure where the idea that they have small feet and can't hunt very well came from.

Check out this pic of a buzzard cleaning it's talons after feeding on Arkive... I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a belt from one of those....

http://www.arkive.org/common-buzzard/buteo-buteo/image-G40797.html

dodderangler

WildIreland wrote: »

dodderangler wrote: »

My Harris hawk is from the buteo family yea but a buzzard will not take a rabbit with ease their small feet make it hard to hold onto a rabbit therefore after fails to kill rabbits a buzzard will generally hunt smaller prey ie rats or start scavenging
There's a reason why buzzards are not generally used by falconers as they are not good for hunting only display work

No, buzzards regularly take rabbits... I've seen them take adult rabbits no bother at all. They will take carrion, like most raptors, but they are also superb hunters. They wouldn't be Britain's most common raptor if they couldn't hunt effectively.

Buzzards are about the same size as Harris hawks, and have similar sized powerful talons, so not sure where the idea that they have small feet and can't hunt very well came from.

Check out this pic of a buzzard cleaning it's talons after feeding on Arkive... I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a belt from one of those....

http://www.arkive.org/common-buzzard/buteo-buteo/image-G40797.html

Sorry mate but your wrong and I don't believe you've seen them takin rabbits even on YouTube there's f all videos of them hunting rabbits
Secondly bein involved in falconry and owning a female harris hawk and hunting her , I have seen buzzards and in size wise females are smaller than female Harris and size of feet are not same either
females Harris are bigger
As for takin rabbits no, they will take juvenile rabbits as for fully grown very rare they will go for them but either get kicked off or are too slow and any falconer will tell you that hence why very few are used for hunting
They eat carrion and will eat rodents and pigeons if they are quick enough so that's why they are britains most common raptor
They will also eat frogs and insects and I've seen then hunt insects well over 100 feet above me head
I have caught rabbits with my hawk and after I gut them and the guts are discarded only few mins later the buzzards are down in a flash eating the left overs

Bsal

Sorry to say but I seen a Buzzard at Dublin airport a couple of weeks ago come up out of the grass with a Rabbit in its talons and fly of with it.

cuddlycavies

At the airport it's more likely to have been a leveret.

Birdnuts

cuddlycavies wrote: »

At the airport it's more likely to have been a leveret.

Not necessarily - theres a large rabbit population around the boundaries of Dublin AP, and anytime I'm there its where I see the local buzzards hunting.

dodderangler

Bsal wrote: »

Sorry to say but I seen a Buzzard at Dublin airport a couple of weeks ago come up out of the grass with a Rabbit in its talons and fly of with it.

Young rabbit maybe and how do you know the buzzard killed it
Could've already been dead
Also there is a serious population of rabbits out at the airport a lot more than hares

Bsal

It definetly wasn't a leveret, in this particular spot I have only ever seen Rabbits, never Hares, there's even a few black Rabbits .

dodderangler

Bsal wrote: »

It definetly wasn't a leveret, in this particular spot I have only ever seen Rabbits, never Hares, there's even a few black Rabbits .

I've seen hares there alright but very few birds will go for a hare especially a buzzard
People often assume black rabbits are rabbits that people released that we're pets but not always the case
Black rabbits are a sign that there is a healthy population of rabbits from them inbreeding over a while and also many think they are unedible when they are actually just as nice to eat

Birdnuts

dodderangler wrote: »

Black rabbits are a sign that there is a healthy population of rabbits from them inbreeding over a while and also many think they are unedible when they are actually just as nice to eat

I've never seen as many black rabbits as I have this year - all in all its been a bumper year in these parts for bunnies of all shades!!

dodderangler

I've seen my fair few aswell this year more than any other year aswell
It's a good sign that the rabbits are in numbers and I've seen good amount of hares aswell
So raptors of all sorts have plenty to eat

Pie Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPoK2l7WBNc

dodderangler

That's the only video I've seen of buzzard taking a rabbit and a small rabbit at that
As I've stated they will take small rabbits if they can
But will find it very hard to take fully grown rabbits as they have small feet and find it hard to bind on and will get kicked off

WildIreland

dodderangler wrote: »

Sorry mate but your wrong

Wrong how, exactly, when I've seen it with my own eyes? I grew up in North Wales which is teeming with buzzards and rabbits, and have seen buzzards tackle rabbits on numerous occasions over many years.

I'm not saying they take adult rabbits out of preference... just that they are capable of taking them if they need to. Out of preference any predator will choose the easy meal over one that demands more effort -- so smaller, less nimble prey will always be selected first, and carrion is a no brainer -- it's free food for no effort.

dodderangler wrote: »

"I don't believe you've seen them takin rabbits even on YouTube there's f all videos of them hunting rabbits

So if it's not on YouTube it never happened, right? Please! You can, of course, believe what you want to. I know what I've seen.

dodderangler wrote: »

Secondly bein involved in falconry and owning a female harris hawk and hunting her , I have seen buzzards and in size wise females are smaller than female Harris and size of feet are not same either
females Harris are bigger

A friend used to own two Harris hawks and they were pretty much buzzard sized. I was at an agricultural show recently where a rescued buzzard was sitting next to a Harris hawk and they were very similar in size. Can't say I paid that much attention to their feet though, I must admit.

Looking up the vital statistics of both species in a couple of field guides I have handy:

Common Buzzard: Length 46-58cm Wingspan 110-132cm (per Collins Bird Guide)

Harris Hawk: Length 53cm Wingspan 117cm (per National Geographic Birds of North America)

So... the same size... if anything the buzzard edges it. There are countless other sources based on real data to back that up if you want to look for them.

dodderangler wrote: »

As for takin rabbits no, they will take juvenile rabbits as for fully grown very rare they will go for them but either get kicked off or are too slow and any falconer will tell you that hence why very few are used for hunting.

As I mentioned above, out of preference they will take smaller / easier prey and will take carrion when it's available... it's a sound survival strategy. The point is that they are capable of taking rabbits if the need arises / they're hungry enough and there's little else available.

This from the BBC natural history website on the Buzzards prowess as a hunter:

"Common buzzard
Buzzards are smaller than golden eagles but just as formidable as predators. These imposing hunters drop down on rabbits and small mammals from slow or hovering flight or from a perch. Having snatched their prey in powerful talons, they nearly always make their kill on the ground."

So much for their feeble feet!

Im pretty sure the falconry angle has more to do with the buzzard's leisurely hunting style than its lack of success. Watching your bird sitting on a post scouting for likely prey or soaring for long periods isn't that exciting. A Harris hawk's "hot pursuit" approach, it's general temperament and the fact that it can hunt cooperatively with other Harris hawks all make it more attractive to the falconer.

dodderangler wrote: »

They eat carrion and will eat rodents and pigeons if they are quick enough so that's why they are britains most common raptor
They will also eat frogs and insects and I've seen then hunt insects well over 100 feet above me head
I have caught rabbits with my hawk and after I gut them and the guts are discarded only few mins later the buzzards are down in a flash eating the left overs

Yes, buzzards have a very broad diet... that's one of the main reasons they've bounced back so well in the UK and are spreading so quickly here in Ireland. They're adaptable, adept hunters that readily exploit any available food source, and take advantage of carrion (like your discarded rabbit guts). All in all a very successful bird.

Bottom line: buzzards are excellent hunters that can and will take rabbits. Out of preference thought they will choose easier prey.

Birdnuts

Buzzards have a broad diet allright including earthworms, carrion through to rabbits. However Harris Hawks(going on Birdlife International online sources) appear to prefer live prey to a much greater extent and do alot less scavanging then their cousins in Europe. I think this is also reflected in the strong preference by falconers for harris hawks over Common Buzzards as hunting companions

PS: I too have seen both species side be side and based on that the HH appears to be the more powerfull bird based on muscle mass/bulk and seize/strength of talons. Indeed the HH was threatening to globber the other fella within a minute of them being lined up together;)

dodderangler

So I must be wrong then because you read bout the sizes of the birds?
I've seen both close to each other and my Harris is a lot bigger and more muscular
A buzzards wings may be broader as that's how they are designed to soar my Harris is designed for power and speed
Also buzzards as I've said before find it very hard to bind onto rabbits due to their small feet so tend to go for baby rabbits and take off with it my Harris does that with baby rabbits but a fully grown one? No too heavy not worth the effort unless predators are around they'd try it
Being a falconer I have seen both and size diff ( being the owner of a female Harris that hunts at 2lb 3 1/4 oz which is big) but I suppose according to you I'm wrong bout that aswell

WildIreland

dodderangler wrote: »

So I must be wrong then because you read bout the sizes of the birds?
I've seen both close to each other and my Harris is a lot bigger and more muscular
A buzzards wings may be broader as that's how they are designed to soar my Harris is designed for power and speed
Also buzzards as I've said before find it very hard to bind onto rabbits due to their small feet so tend to go for baby rabbits and take off with it my Harris does that with baby rabbits but a fully grown one? No too heavy not worth the effort unless predators are around they'd try it
Being a falconer I have seen both and size diff ( being the owner of a female Harris that hunts at 2lb 3 1/4 oz which is big) but I suppose according to you I'm wrong bout that aswell

No... I'm not saying your experience is wrong... you've seen what you've seen. As with any species there are inter-specific size differences and a large harris hawk will be bigger than a small buzzard for sure. I'm just saying they're similarly sized birds... which the facts bear out.

Actually... same goes for the rabbits... you get smaller ones and you get bigger ones -- and the biggest of them would be beyond the scope of most buzzards most of the time.

It's horses for courses... both birds have evolved to suit different styles of hunting... the Harris is a more active / aggressive predator for sure, and will commonly tackle bigger prey -- no arguments there. Theoretically speaking (as I wouldn't advocate trying it) I'd also put my money on the Harris hawk if they got in a scrap. I've seen them in action both as captive birds and in the wild and they're very impressive hunters. Again, no arguments there.

The only issue I have is with the notion that buzzards are somehow feeble, useless hunters with weak little feet, when they patently are not. That and the suggestion I was making stuff up when I said I'd seen buzzards take rabbits, which is also untrue.

Otherwise I think we're on roughly the same page, and are both happy to see buzzards doing well in Ireland and expanding their range. I for one will be delighted to see them breeding down here in West Cork.

jellybaby21

WildIreland wrote: »

No... I'm not saying your experience is wrong... you've seen what you've seen. As with any species there are inter-specific size differences and a large harris hawk will be bigger than a small buzzard for sure. I'm just saying they're similarly sized birds... which the facts bear out.

Actually... same goes for the rabbits... you get smaller ones and you get bigger ones -- and the biggest of them would be beyond the scope of most buzzards most of the time.

It's horses for courses... both birds have evolved to suit different styles of hunting... the Harris is a more active / aggressive predator for sure, and will commonly tackle bigger prey -- no arguments there. Theoretically speaking (as I wouldn't advocate trying it) I'd also put my money on the Harris hawk if they got in a scrap. I've seen them in action both as captive birds and in the wild and they're very impressive hunters. Again, no arguments there.

The only issue I have is with the notion that buzzards are somehow feeble, useless hunters with weak little feet, when they patently are not. That and the suggestion I was making stuff up when I said I'd seen buzzards take rabbits, which is also untrue.

Otherwise I think we're on roughly the same page, and are both happy to see buzzards doing well in Ireland and expanding their range. I for one will be delighted to see them breeding down here in West Cork.

Hi I don't normally post on this forum but here goes.

I have read this thread and there are rite and wrong on both sides here.First off a buzzard has small feet for the size of bird.The harris has much bigger feet.Buzzards are not used in falconry that much because they are lazy birds by nature and its hard to get them to hunt. I have seen buzzards chase adult rabbit and pheasant with very little success.They will take young as they are easy prey. Both of these birds are broad wings so neither are really built for speed(not like a short wing, like a goshawk).A harriis with a hunting weight of 2lb3 1/4 is not a big harris.She is average size not big,a female of lets say 2lb9 would be a big girl.Anyway hope this helps and if I forgot anything I'll be back on later lol.