Saorview sound but no picture - MPEG-4

Reg_hurley

Hi All,

I have a Toshiba dvd player that I think should be able to pick up Saorview.
The manual mentions that it is licensed for MGEP-4 visual standard.
Page 4: Manual

After tuning in the channels I only get sound. No picture, but I do receive the EPG data.
Does this mean the box isnt MPEG4 compatible? Or could it be a problem with the tv (it's quite old)?

thanks for any advice,

Reg.

The Cush

Reg_hurley wrote: »

After tuning in the channels I only get sound. No picture, but I do receive the EPG data.
Does this mean the box isnt MPEG4 compatible?

Yes.

John mac

yup not compatible.
only mpeg2.

Reg_hurley

The Cush wrote: »

Yes.

ah crap. thanks for the quick response.
I had some hope for for it being a setup error when mpeg 4 is mentioned in the manual.

STB

mpeg4 comes in many guises.

H264 Part 10/MPEG4-AVC L4 is DVB for Digital broadcsting

MPEG4 is a video codec e.g. ability to play Divx but not part 10.

kt87

I bought a bush ly24m3 from argos and I can receive the saorview channels with sound but no picture is there any way to get the picture or is it the tv?

Compton

could be bad signal.

watty

take it back. They should not have sold it.

Mike 1972

Ive been searching for ages for a DVD recorder with an MPEG4 tuner (and before anyone sticks their oar in no I dont want a HDD only based PVR) but the only ones Ive come across so far are these horrifically expensive Panasonic blu ray yokes

Compton

why not buy a saorview/combo box and use an external HDD?

bryaner

shblob wrote: »

could be bad signal.

Not a bad signal as you would get nothing if the signal was bad..

Compton

bryaner wrote: »

Not a bad signal as you would get nothing if the signal was bad..

Thats strange. It has happend to me before, so it is possible.

Minstrel27

shblob wrote: »

could be bad signal.

No it couldn't.

watty

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Ive been searching for ages for a DVD recorder with an MPEG4 tuner (and before anyone sticks their oar in no I dont want a HDD only based PVR) but the only ones Ive come across so far are these horrifically expensive Panasonic blu ray yokes

PVRs don't re-encode the signal. Nor do Digital tuner DVD recorders.

There are three problems with DVD.

1. DVD Video is SD MPEG2 only.
2. A DVD data disc can have MPEG4 video files, but then won't play in many DVD players and also the disc size is too low for a longer HD feature.
3. The maximum real time bit rate to record is too low for peaks of HD.

Even BD recorders actually use a HDD for recording and then "reformat" and fix the TS into a PS for disc afterwards.

So you will never get a proper HD MPEG4 PVR that uses DVDs. The only "direct" digital Tuner DVD recorders are inherently MPEG2 and SD only.

You can use an analogue in (composite, or better is S-video if the setbox allows) DVD recorder via SCART. Very few DVD recorders do RGB in (but SCART always has Composite option), more do S-Video. But very few SCART out on Setbox have S-Video option.

The whole point of recorders on Digital tuners is that they record the actual data "as is" (with no more than replacing dropped stream and reformatting, not re-encoding, from TS format to PS format). Play back is an equal amount of data to live TV and the same quality. It puts up the cost too much to have an encoder like on Analogue Tuners. Also the Analogue DVD recorder approach isn't going to work with an MPEG4 HD siignal unless you have expense of an entire MPEG4 HD setbox AND an encoder that runs from analogue downscaled output.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

PVRs don't re-encode the signal. Nor do Digital tuner DVD recorders.

Are you sure ?

Any DVD recorders Ive come across give one the option of recording at a range of different speeds (Typically from 1 up to 6 or 8 hours on a 4.7 Gig disc) some (very few) even let one record to VCD or SVCD too.

Surely if there are six speeds there must be six different bitrates even if the incoming DVB-T signal is identical to one of these bitrates (unlikely given that different channels use different bitrates) surely the signal needs to be reencoded when recording at a different speed/bitrate ?

watty

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Any DVD recorders Ive come across give one the option of recording at a range of different speeds (Typically from 1 up to 6 or 8 hours on a 4.7 Gig disc) some (very few) even let one record to VCD or SVCD too.

Surely if there are six speeds there must be six different bitrates even if the incoming DVB-T signal is identical to one of these bitrates (unlikely given that different channels use different bitrates) surely the signal needs to be reencoded when recording at a different speed/bitrate ?

Only DVD recorders with Analogue tuners or originally designed for Analogue will have different quality and thus bitrates, even if they do have "freeview". Re-encoding needs more hardware and ALWAYS reduces the quality with digital. If you pick a lower bit rate it reduces the quality more.

No-one is designing new DVD recorders. If you do find something which has a DVD recorder and MPEG4 + HD DVB-T tuner in one box I suggest you avoid it like the plague.

Your options in summary are:

• External HDD or USB stick on some TVs and Set-boxes
• USB DTT stick on a PC or Laptop (you can burn down-sampled real MPEG2 DVDs or make DVD Rom with MPEG4 HD)
• True HDD based full PVR
• Full media centre (appliance or PC based) with option to make BD (bluray) true HD discs.

Really even if it existed a box with DVD recording and MPEG4 + HD DTT tuner would be a very bad purchase.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

Only DVD recorders with Analogue tuners or originally designed for Analogue will have different quality and thus bitrates, even if they do have "freeview". .

So basically DVD recorders with DTT tuners DO reencode the signal (or most of them anyway)

Now that weve established that what exactly is the difficulty in reencoding an MPEG4 DTT signal (as MPEG2) as opposed to an MPEG2 one ?

watty

No they don't. Unless they are TOTALLY OBSOLETE with analogue tuners. In that case they won't have MPEG4 or HD.

It can be done. You can do it on a PC. But only newer tuners are MPEG4 and HD. No-one is going to design and produce a new recorder (with MPEG4 & HD) in the Digital only HD era with an Analogue input and need for the extra expense of an Analogue to MPEG2 encoder, which will only do SD.

Native DVD video neither supports MPEG4 or HD. What you want is unlikely to exist, and if it did exist it would be a stupid waste of money to buy a recorder that destroys HD content and degrades SD content.

If you want DVDs with poor quality SD version of HD put a cheap DTT USB stick into a PC or Laptop and encode your own video after recording live to HDD. Otherwise get a "proper" Digital Recorder. No "Real" Digital PVR re-encodes. They all record a copy of the original data. They use EPG and "Series link" etc to automatically record too. The more deluxe ones can "Archive" the HDD recording to Disk, possibly at variable qualities.

Direct Live DVD recording is an obsolete concept. Even before MPEG4 and HD it was on its last legs as a technology. Old inventory has been getting "dumped" here over the last year.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

No they don't. Unless they are TOTALLY OBSOLETE with analogue tuners. In that case they won't have MPEG4 or HD.

It can be done. You can do it on a PC. But only newer tuners are MPEG4 and HD. No-one is going to design and produce a new recorder (with MPEG4 & HD) in the Digital only HD era with an Analogue input and need for the extra expense of an Analogue to MPEG2 encoder, which will only do SD.

Native DVD video neither supports MPEG4 or HD. What you want is unlikely to exist, and if it did exist it would be a stupid waste of money to buy a recorder that destroys HD content and degrades SD content. .

I (and I suspect the OP) really dont give a flying fiddlers about HD I am only interested video from DTT broadcasts (and analouge sources) to video DVD for viewing on my (shock horror) CRT TV. This obsssion with HD content is pretty laughable anyway given that the majority of programming on the single channel broadcasting "HD" on Saorview is actually upscaled (shock horror) SD content.

If you want DVDs with poor quality SD version of HD put a cheap DTT USB stick into a PC or Laptop .

I also want to buy one for a family member who (shock horror) doesnt own (or want) a laptop and wouldnt know one end of a USB stick from another.

For the umpteenth time I want a DVD recorder capable of recording MPEG4 broadcasts. I am not interested in HDD-only or USB based PVR's. I am posting in this forum looking for constructive advice on the subject and having indicated my requirements I am treating any further suggestions that I dont know what Im looking for by people who reckon they know better as trolling and dealing with them accordingly.

watty

I've tried to explain why what you want is unlikely to ever exist.

The closest you can get that will work is the top end models with a BD recorder.

The only other alternative is two boxes. A €50 saorview box connected by composite SCART to a "product dumped" Analogue DVD Recorder (about €90) via its SCART in rather than the analogue tuner.

Recent model freeview tuner DVD recorders may not have analogue in.

Any "Tuner" has to be able to receive MPEG4, HD and AAC even if you later convert and re-encode to SD for recording. An encoder is a lot of extra cost, which is why "digital only" recorders don't have them.

This is not Trolling, but commercial reality.
You might as well complain you can't get a VHS with an MPEG4 HD tuner. No-one is going to launch a new model DVD recorder with MPEG4 HD tuner. At least it's extremely unlikely.

dowtchaboy

Watty - I have eventually learned there are times when it's easier on the blood pressure to say 'I don't know" (even when you do ) and tip-toe away.......

molgra

I have a new toshiba tv saorview approved but get picture but no sound except for RTE news channel.

Any ideas?

Minstrel27

Change the audio channel. All Irish DTT channels have multiple audio channels.

mtoutlemonde

Hi, I'm experienced a similar problem this evening. As I said previously, I got my DVD recorder and Xoro box connected and it all worked until this evening. I'm just after getting a message on screen that says 'this signals tv system is different from the recorders setting'. I was watching the tv this evening with no problems until I got this message. I can hear the channel but only have a blank screen. Any advice?