D.I.Y AI

Bigbird1

was thinking of doing the Ai on my own cows, we have 18 sucklers and a good ai service already have a flask and straws but its just the flexability of being able to do them yourself, wondering would it be worth it and is it hard to get the hang of.
Thanks

Bodacious

Bigbird1 wrote: »

was thinking of doing the Ai on my own cows, we have 18 sucklers and a good ai service already have a flask and straws but its just the flexability of being able to do them yourself, wondering would it be worth it and is it hard to get the hang of.
Thanks

Im in the same boat would love to do it but would have to go in direct opposition in my area to good friend/neighbour already doing it (good service) as to justify doing the course and tank and annual top up of liquid nitrogen they say you should be doing a minimum of 70 cows.

You halfway there though with own flask maintained anyway...your conception rates mighnt be as good at first but id say go for it:):)

Good luck too

redzerologhlen

I did it 2 years ago, The main thing you need is practice, When I trained I did it on cull cows but I find it very hard to do heifers now, Its worth doing if you already have the tank though, Just letting you know if you do it make sure you do some traning on heifers too.

49801

had a neighbour whom does his own AI. think he only managed to get 2 out of the 6 hiefers incalf. scanning next week. hiefers are tricky.

how much does the training cost? 1200euro

I think its a worthwhile investment but i would not get rid of the stock bull for a while.

use the cheap straws for the first couple of years till your more comfortable.
its awful painful when 15/30 euro straws dont take.

but still... the most important part of the puzzle is the heat detection. if your not prepared to do it properly forget it!

bogman_bass

if you have a good service from your technician I wouldnt bother.
why take on added cost and risk for minimal gain?
I think a lot of lads do DIY because "its the thing to do" but unless you arent getting the service you need from your technitian or you have 60+ cows I wouldnt bother me backside

pakalasa

...and if you have 60+ cows, you can justify buying a GOOD bull.;)
It's catch 22 really.

reilig

Genexcel run the DIY AI course in Meadow Meats, Rathdowney, Co. Laois. Its a 4 day course from 8am to 5pm. You get to practice on up to 100 cows before the end of the 4 days. They quoted me a lot more than €1200 for the course when I enquired about it almost 2 years ago (€1800 IIRC). Cost combined with a lack of time and the distance to the factory ruled it out for me, for now.

gazahayes

I did my ai course with genexcel 4 days of practice and one day theory cost 500 euro great training. not all done in the one week it depends on the factory for the cows to train.

irishh_bob

Bigbird1 wrote: »

was thinking of doing the Ai on my own cows, we have 18 sucklers and a good ai service already have a flask and straws but its just the flexability of being able to do them yourself, wondering would it be worth it and is it hard to get the hang of.
Thanks

numbers are far too small , you wont have enough practice , DIY ai becomes more expensive if conception rates are not up to scratch

Bigbird1

Thanks for that guys its about 400 for the training i think 1200 is an all in figure of training , flask, gun etc. i would just love to be able to do them myself no waiting on the AI man, or late on a Sunday evening when id get home from a match for example, or if your unsure a cow is in heat or not stick a cheap straw in her anyway.

Heifers are the tricky bit i hear and the more practice the better.

Im also told that some people try it and are always able to do it while others never really get the hang of it

funny man

Bigbird1 wrote: »

was thinking of doing the Ai on my own cows, we have 18 sucklers and a good ai service already have a flask and straws but its just the flexability of being able to do them yourself, wondering would it be worth it and is it hard to get the hang of.
Thanks

if you have the flask that's the expensive part of it, the rest is quite easy, i done it 9 years ago, better conception rates and can do them on your time, would be the two positives for me.

pakalasa

Why are heifers harder to do? Is it because they are that bit smaller and tighter?

I see big pluses in it too
- being able to do them late at night
- you could give two straws, 12 hrs apart, if unsure of standing time etc.

wiggy123

not find heifers will keep quicker than cows at ai

flatout11

its hardly worth your while especially if your happy with your ai service already, for 25 to 30 inseminations a year, the cost of the training - maintaining the tank etc.....
whats your AI charge

49801

i've heard that technicians are too thin on the ground.
ireland is very differant to the like of NZ where they would have 2 or 3 guys serving 1500 dairy cows on one farm
technicians spend too much time in the car in Ireland covering big area's and timing is everything with AI. one company has a technician that lives 2.5hr drive from here. how many calls can a technician make in a day?

A more local technican setup would make far more sense. say one technician covering 5/6 local farms and no more than say 600cows. But the cost structure needs to adequately support/encourage the lad serving that its worth his while. if he only got a fiver into his hand after his cost per service its not lucrative enough for him.

4 out of 7 heifers are incalf here this year. and i'am very happy with the chap who served them for me. really looking forward to seeing the progeny growing and comparing with the stock bull.

1000-1500 really does not seem like that big of an expense when you compare it to other farm improvement investments. you'd be lucky to buy incalf hiefer for that sort of money atm.
AI prodgeny 'should' be worth at least 30euro per head more than stock bull. so the investment should pay for itself on a 50cow farm within one year. but i would not get rid of the stock bull for the first couple of years either.

just my opinion. and keeping my stock bull!!!

dar31

it would be very hard to get enough practice with 20 odd cows.
im sure the technician would do am/pm calls for you.
i started diy ai this year, only served in the morning, what was on the eve before and that morning. xmas service i only got about 45% in calf.
where as this spring i done 3 wks at the start and scanned 65% in calf which i was happy enough with, very nervous in case it went tits up.
think the course and equipment cost in around €900

Bigbird1

current service is 30e including two free repeats, which is not bad.. It may be expensive it but if i was able to get the cows incalf myself at a time that suits me i would be happy with that. also i already have the tank with plenty of good straws and my AI man charges 20e for every one of these he puts in.

Bigbird1

dar31 wrote: »

it would be very hard to get enough practice with 20 odd cows.
im sure the technician would do am/pm calls for you.
i started diy ai this year, only served in the morning, what was on the eve before and that morning. xmas service i only got about 45% in calf.
where as this spring i done 3 wks at the start and scanned 65% in calf which i was happy enough with, very nervous in case it went tits up.
think the course and equipment cost in around €900

Ya he will usually do am/pm calls alrite but suppose i jus dont like waitin around on him, but on some occasions will arrive at 2 and 3 pm for cows i had noticed that morning, these cows have often repeated. dar31 are these % for cows incalf from first service, how many cows have you,im hopein to jump to maybe 25 over the next 12 mths

dar31

yea % scanned in calf to first service.
have used 120 or so straws since xmas, and only getting confidence up, have to wait till next xmas now to go again.
usually wait 12-18 hours after first sign of heat noticed to serve.
still waiting to do theory part of course though.

Bigbird1

dar31 wrote: »

yea % scanned in calf to first service.
have used 120 or so straws since xmas, and only getting confidence up, have to wait till next xmas now to go again.
usually wait 12-18 hours after first sign of heat noticed to serve.
still waiting to do theory part of course though.

Ya any id see after 4pm id like leave until the following morning.

where did you do the course or who would you recommend?

49801

my understanding is sperm is viable for 24hrs, eggs 6hrs... so much better to do them earlier rather than later as you don't want the egg to be waiting for the sperm.

how much does it cost to maintain a tank?

flatout11

49801 wrote: »

my understanding is sperm is viable for 24hrs, eggs 6hrs... so much better to do them earlier rather than later as you don't want the egg to be waiting for the sperm.

how much does it cost to maintain a tank?

your actually right, if its off a fertile bull it can survive for up to 30 hours, furthermore the semen has to be in place for 6 to 8 hrs to undergo the necessary processes to allow for fertilisation to occur, cant understand this ai then twice buisness ,, bad heat detection
o your better just ai them

49801

flatout11 wrote: »

furthermore the semen has to be in place for 6 to 8 hrs to undergo the necessary processes to allow for fertilisation to occur,

Can you explain this a little further?

Does it make sense so not to wait for standing heat and serve during the onset of heat? This would more like am/am and pm/pm rather than the traditional am/pm rule.

flatout11

am pm rule is a good general guide thats if you notice the cow in the early stages of heat not tha tail end of it which i suspect happens in a lot of cases.
Typically a cow will ovulate 25 to 30 hrs after heat onset (which could be 12 hrs or more before you notice her)
so if she s on for 6 or 7 hrs and the semen lasts up to 30 your covered!!!

but lets put it in practical context, you see a cow on in the morning and
you want to get her AI'd that evening, when you go to bring her in you notice another one, id suggest you AI both rather than wait until the next morning. If the inseminator is competent and the semen of good quality there should be no issue, i just cant understand where the benifit of using 2 straws comes in !

49801

yes we are on the same wavelength

flatout11 wrote: »

i just cant understand where the benifit of using 2 straws comes in !

2straws in one service... volume!

technicians of old used to use 1 straw on 2 cows.... on the sly that is... so their buddy would get the semen not the poor lad who had paid for it.

what happen

flatout11 wrote: »

your actually right, if its off a fertile bull it can survive for up to 30 hours, furthermore the semen has to be in place for 6 to 8 hrs to undergo the necessary processes to allow for fertilisation to occur, cant understand this ai then twice buisness ,, bad heat detection
o your better just ai them

the ai man was telling me the angus bulls semen survives the longest and thats why the dairy men were using angus bulls for repeats.

Bizzum

what happen wrote: »

the ai man was telling me the angus bulls semen survives the longest and thats why the dairy men were using angus bulls for repeats.

Would you think short gestation has anything to do with it?

wiggy123

average angus gestation is 282 days

flatout11

what happen wrote: »

the ai man was telling me the angus bulls semen survives the longest and thats why the dairy men were using angus bulls for repeats.

utter nonsense sounds good though
... easy calving + short gestation .... that simple really

Bigbird1

im not sure but iv heard that its a bad idea to inseminate too early, like the semen will gradually die off if its waiting around for the egg. ye have a good point in that IF semen is active for 25/30 hours then you should be covered and timing not such an issue as long as the cow is in actual heat.

pakalasa

There was a very good graph on the journal a while back. It showed the success rate of AI at various times after standing heat. It peaked at a certain time after the onset of standing heat. This was the result of extensive trials.
If anyone has access to it, please post it.

flatout11

Bigbird1 wrote: »

im not sure but iv heard that its a bad idea to inseminate too early, like the semen will gradually die off if its waiting around for the egg. ye have a good point in that IF semen is active for 25/30 hours then you should be covered and timing not such an issue as long as the cow is in actual heat.

the key to succcessful ai is good heat detection..... everything else comes later, now reduced sperm number can be an issue and there is variability between bulls but most ai companys will compensate for this by increasing the dose per straw. but most cows will have been on heat a while before being noticed especially for part time farmers

flatout11

pakalasa wrote: »

There was a very good graph on the journal a while back. It showed the success rate of AI at various times after standing heat. It peaked at a certain time after the onset of standing heat. This was the result of extensive trials.
If anyone has access to it, please post it.

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Factors-affecting-conception-rate-in-beef-cows-9176.html
try this .... the power of google!!

pakalasa

flatout11 wrote: »

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Factors-affecting-conception-rate-in-beef-cows-9176.html
try this .... the power of google!!

Thanks, I had found that already but can't open the pictures. If you can, any chance you'd re-attach them as files. Cheers!

bogman_bass

flatout11 wrote: »

now reduced sperm number can be an issue and there is variability between bulls but most ai companys will compensate for this by increasing the dose per straw.

the sperm count in straws is pretty constant. Irish straws are usually 15 or 20 million sperm per dose. Most imported straws are around 12 million sperm per dose.
Viable sperm are between 50 and 80% anything less and it into the bin and doesnt leave the store

flatout11

pakalasa wrote: »

Thanks, I had found that already but can't open the pictures. If you can, any chance you'd re-attach them as files. Cheers!

just noticed that too ...

sunsetacres bang

does anypne know where id get sunset acres bang straws or craven pine tar straws or any old angus semen

whelan1

sunsetacres bang wrote: »

does anypne know where id get sunset acres bang straws or craven pine tar straws or any old angus semen

jeeny would say theres very little of them around, when i saw your username i smiled, we bred ptj out of sunset acres bang, did you try kathryn bradshaw in the angus association ?

Invalid user

Is there much cost involved in maintaining a tank? And would you recommend buying a new tank or would a second hand one be ok?

Mooooo

Topped up with liquid N 4 times a year. Your ai company will give you a price on it, 190 a year I think. Don't buy a second hand one. Buy new and even if there are no straws in it keep it topped up as normal. If it's let run dry the flask may crack when refilled again. That's the problem with second hand ones

kowtow

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Ya he will usually do am/pm calls alrite but suppose i jus dont like waitin around on him, but on some occasions will arrive at 2 and 3 pm for cows i had noticed that morning, these cows have often repeated. dar31 are these % for cows incalf from first service, how many cows have you,im hopein to jump to maybe 25 over the next 12 mths

If you see a cow standing in the morning ideally you would want to leave her until the evening surely?

patsy_mccabe

Our local guy will AI any time you want. Came here one night at 10pm. Ideal for part timers who have nobody at home during the day and a dodgy cow who likes to jump things.

simx

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Our local guy will AI any time you want. Came here one night at 10pm. Ideal for part timers who have nobody at home during the day and a dodgy cow who likes to jump things.

He mustn't have much else on, heard of an ai man in Galway and any calls have to be in by 11am or will be left for following day

tanko

kowtow wrote: »

If you see a cow standing in the morning ideally you would want to leave her until the evening surely?

Yeah, better not to do them too soon if possible.

farisfat

All cows served here in the morning after milking....anything with paint gone or anything standing heat.
It looks like 70% will calve in 3 to 4 weeks scanning next week .