Heaven is for real

daveyboynire

http://youtu.be/xOSdUdbRj3Y

Sorry of this has been posted before, but its an amazing story, Just finished reading the book I highly recommend it.

gimmebroadband

I just finished reading that book last week, really amazing!!!

Akiene, another amazing prodigy who had a life-changing experience at age 4, and paints fantastic images from her time in Heaven, really inspirational stuff!

http://www.artakiane.com/home

antiskeptic

daveyboynire wrote: »

http://youtu.be/xOSdUdbRj3Y

Sorry of this has been posted before, but its an amazing story, Just finished reading the book I highly recommend it.

According to the video, the kid knows some details about things he couldn't possibly have known about (I don't smell hoax and so won't assume it).

How do you make the leap from there to 'heaven is real'. Don't mediums do this kind of thing all the time (and we're supposing them satan-inspired).

Onesimus

I'm a believer but not in this story. I think it is just another american money making racket. Have seen folks do this with their kids in america before and it's annoying.

One of the biggest red flags was him saying that there are animals in heaven. Catholic theology makes it quite clear that animals souls die when they die. they do not have an immortal soul. ( check the summa theologica for reference to that ).

But there are genuine stories of believers who have seen heaven.

The Floyd p

daveyboynire wrote: »

http://youtu.be/xOSdUdbRj3Y

Sorry of this has been posted before, but its an amazing story, Just finished reading the book I highly recommend it.

a. A usually fictional prose or verse narrative intended to interest or amuse the hearer or reader; a tale.

PDN

The Floyd p wrote: »

a. A usually fictional prose or verse narrative intended to interest or amuse the hearer or reader; a tale.

If you're going to selectively cut and paste part of a definition then it would be smarter to omit the letter a from the beginning. That way the ruse might actually work with one or two people, rather than alerting them that you have edited out b et al.

gimmebroadband

Onesimus wrote: »

I'm a believer but not in this story. I think it is just another american money making racket. Have seen folks do this with their kids in america before and it's annoying.

One of the biggest red flags was him saying that there are animals in heaven. Catholic theology makes it quite clear that animals souls die when they die. they do not have an immortal soul. ( check the summa theologica for reference to that ).

But there are genuine stories of believers who have seen heaven.

Perhaps the animals in heaven are not of this world!

antiskeptic

Onesimus wrote: »

One of the biggest red flags was him saying that there are animals in heaven. Catholic theology makes it quite clear that animals souls die when they die. they do not have an immortal soul. ( check the summa theologica for reference to that ).

Yet the bit of us that isn't mortal (our bodies) will be reinstated (unless Catholic theology states that we'll wander around as disembodied spirits)

If what is mortal about us can be reconstituted, why can't that which is mortal about an animal?

antiskeptic

PDN wrote: »

If you're going to selectively cut and paste part of a definition then it would be smarter to omit the letter a from the beginning. That way the ruse might actually work with one or two people, rather than alerting them that you have edited out b et al.

Onesimus

antiskeptic wrote: »

Yet the bit of us that isn't mortal (our bodies) will be reinstated (unless Catholic theology states that we'll wander around as disembodied spirits)

If what is mortal about us can be reconstituted, why can't that which is mortal about an animal?

The Theology of the human body/soul and importance thereof is different to the animals. Catholic Theology therefore states that when an animal dies so does its soul.

Humans are above animals in importance to God and have been infused with a mortal soul with the gift of being reinstated with that part of us that is mortal for now.

This does not mean that animals are not important they are afterall Gods creation and have played roles throughout scripture. We are supposed to love them dearly ( St.Francis of Assisi comes to mind there ).

Onesimus

gimmebroadband wrote: »

Perhaps the animals in heaven are not of this world!

You've made a great point here and perhaps that is so. But I still dont buy the story. Americans are so competitive and fame seeking people that they will do anything to get a few bucks and 15mins of fame.

Genuine mystics or stories are never New York bestsellers and all over the big time news. Just another money making racket by yet again another american family who try to form their children into bible bashers. I've seen documentaries on them before and it was truly sad.

alex73

I read the book on Kindle. Very nice...Of course the family have made a tidy sum from the book... But at face value it seems genuine.

marty1985

Onesimus wrote: »

I'm a believer but not in this story. I think it is just another american money making racket. Have seen folks do this with their kids in america before and it's annoying.

One of the biggest red flags was him saying that there are animals in heaven. Catholic theology makes it quite clear that animals souls die when they die. they do not have an immortal soul. ( check the summa theologica for reference to that ).

But there are genuine stories of believers who have seen heaven.

If there were animals in the Garden of Eden, why can't there be animals in the next paradise?

antiskeptic

Onesimus wrote: »

The Theology of the human body/soul and importance thereof is different to the animals. Catholic Theology therefore states that when an animal dies so does its soul.

Humans are above animals in importance to God and have been infused with a mortal soul with the gift of being reinstated with that part of us that is mortal for now.

This does not mean that animals are not important they are afterall Gods creation and have played roles throughout scripture. We are supposed to love them dearly ( St.Francis of Assisi comes to mind there ).

This doesn't really answer the question.


If what is mortal about us can be reconstituted (and joined to that which is immortal) then what's the impediment to the reconstitution of animals (even though there's nothing immortal for them to be re-joined to).

It's a reconstitution of what has died in both cases.

PDN

alex73 wrote: »

I read the book on Kindle. Very nice...Of course the family have made a tidy sum from the book... But at face value it seems genuine.

I haven't read the book, but with a name like Todd Burpo I'm sure it's gas!

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Onesimus

antiskeptic wrote: »

This doesn't really answer the question.


If what is mortal about us can be reconstituted (and joined to that which is immortal) then what's the impediment to the reconstitution of animals (even though there's nothing immortal for them to be re-joined to).

It's a reconstitution of what has died in both cases.

Thou hast made him a little less than the angels, thou hast crowned him with glory and honour: [7] And hast set him over the works of thy hands. [8] Thou hast subjected all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen: moreover the beasts also of the fields. [9] The birds of the air, and the fishes of the sea, that pass through the paths of the sea.

when an animal dies his soul dies too antiskeptic. That means he is gone forever. blank, nothing, nada...zip. You will have to read the theologica to get the full story there. I've too much on my hands at the moment to in depth on all the details and can just make it here on boards to come in and out quickly. It's Catholic theology I suggest Catholics read up on it. Or non-Christians if interested.

Marty the Garden of eden was a paradise on earth and nothing like the paradise of the land above us known as Heaven. The world here is a different sphere. The New Adam ( Jesus ) came and restored our grace so that through prayer we may attain this perfection/paradise of Eden on earth today ( like living in heaven on earth ) yet the saints knew that heaven was so much better than this eden. the two are completely different.

I hope that helps. anyone who is upset about it usually are people who are ''attached'' ( which is not love of animals just blind attachment ) to animals and desperately want to see them in heaven and all that. It's cute and they get upset when they hear their doggie wont be jumping over rainbows in paradise. This is understandable.

But we either accept it or we dont.

Onesimus

marty1985

Onesimus wrote: »

antiskeptic wrote: »

This doesn't really answer the question.


If what is mortal about us can be reconstituted (and joined to that which is immortal) then what's the impediment to the reconstitution of animals (even though there's nothing immortal for them to be re-joined to).

It's a reconstitution of what has died in both cases.

Thou hast made him a little less than the angels, thou hast crowned him with glory and honour: [7] And hast set him over the works of thy hands. [8] Thou hast subjected all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen: moreover the beasts also of the fields. [9] The birds of the air, and the fishes of the sea, that pass through the paths of the sea.

when an animal dies his soul dies too antiskeptic. That means he is gone forever. blank, nothing, nada...zip. You will have to read the theologica to get the full story there. I've too much on my hands at the moment to in depth on all the details and can just make it here on boards to come in and out quickly. It's Catholic theology I suggest Catholics read up on it. Or non-Christians if interested.

Marty the Garden of eden was a paradise on earth and nothing like the paradise of the land above us known as Heaven. The world here is a different sphere. The New Adam ( Jesus ) came and restored our grace so that through prayer we may attain this perfection/paradise of Eden on earth today ( like living in heaven on earth ) yet the saints knew that heaven was so much better than this eden. the two are completely different.

I hope that helps. anyone who is upset about it usually are people who are ''attached'' ( which is not love of animals just blind attachment ) to animals and desperately want to see them in heaven and all that. It's cute and they get upset when they hear their doggie wont be jumping over rainbows in paradise. This is understandable.

But we either accept it or we dont.

Onesimus

When Jesus described how he would separate people at judgment as a shepherd separates sheep and goats, he said he would say "Take as your inheritance the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world."
In other words, earth itself, the original kingdom?

PDN

marty1985 wrote: »

When Jesus described how he would separate people at judgment as a shepherd separates sheep and goats, he said he would say "Take as your inheritance the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world."
In other words, earth itself, the original kingdom?

Indeed. the historic Christian position is that there will be a new heavens and a new earth, and there God will dwell with his people.

Heaven, in the sense of somewhere else separate from earth where people are in God's presence, is not for eternity.

Onesimus

marty1985 wrote: »

When Jesus described how he would separate people at judgment as a shepherd separates sheep and goats, he said he would say "Take as your inheritance the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world."
In other words, earth itself, the original kingdom?

Where does that passage say ''take earth as your kingdom?'' your reading into it there.

If you going to interpret scripture you need to interpret it with the Church. Go and find out how the Church interprets that passage and come back to me then. Otherwise your doing what our protestant brethren do. Which is twist scripture to suit their own frame of mind.

because the passage you quote it talking about the end of times when Christ comes again ( second coming ). Then of course there will be no doubt in anyones mind that God exists and of course the earth the way it is now will not be the same.

But as we know it. Animals do not go to heaven.

It helps also if when qouting scripture you could give me the chap and verse you are qouting. It's just always nice to go and read it.

Onesimus

All living creatures -- angels, humans, animals, plants -- have souls. However, there are two kinds of souls: spiritual and material. Angels and humans have spiritual souls. Animals and plants have material souls. Something that is spirit is not subject to the decay of change. Thus, angels do not die and human souls survive the separation of body and soul at death. Material things however are subject to change, thus they are subject to decay and death. As animals and plants have material souls, at death their souls cease to exist.

Whether God will choose to re-create animal and plant souls at the end of time when the material universe is transformed (cf. CCC 1060) is something we do not yet know. However, the Church does not teach that animal and plant souls are "disposable" in the sense that they are of little consequence and can be wasted if humans wish to do so. Animals and plants do not have inherent rights, but humans, because they are appointed by God to be just stewards of nature, have a responsibility to be kind to animals and prudent in using the world's natural resources. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church:


Quote:
The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity. Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man's dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation (CCC 2415).

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=17367

here is a better answer form someone who knows better than I - Catholic apologist.

I hope this helps
Onesimus