Help!!! Need advice with training a dog

ste2006

I am looking for advice with regard to training a dog I have, She is a rescue dog, about a year and a half old and a cross between a Collie and a Terrier (we think).

I also have another dog, he is a border collie lab cross and also a rescue dog. Both dogs get on well and are in a large fenced area when we are not at home.

So my problems are with the smaller terrier like dog. She is very calm when inside the house but once we get outside the problems start. She is generally afraid of other dogs but loves people. When we go to the dog park with her she will sit by us and maybe very reluctantly after a while venture out towards other dogs.

I have been clicker training both dogs for the past few months and the border collie is responding very well to the training but I’m not getting too far with the smaller dog. When I try it in my yard which is fenced off she is perfect and comes back to me every time as I call her. If I put her on a long lead and tie if off in the open yard she is perfect as she knows she can’t get too far.

On the lead walking her she pulls and pulls the lead driving us mad. She often will hold back and then make a run for it generating huge force when the lead gets taught to the point she pulled my GF’s arm badly and she had to go to the physio with it.

A few months ago when I was running with her on a short lead I went to tie my lace and put my foot on the lead. She took a run and yanked the lead out and vanished, I searched and searched and then got a call from the pound three days later to say they had found her about 20 miles away in a housing estate.

The plan then was to train her on a long horse leash and let her roam with the long lead attached so she could not go anywhere and hopefully help us push on with training.

We were out Monday in a forest training with the long lead when as we were finishing she took off again carrying the lead with her (15M Lead) and off she went. I have spent from 6-12PM on a mountain bike searching every forestry and woods around all Monday night and Tuesday night and no sign of her at all. Then got a phone-call from a guy this morning who found her wrapped around a tree in another forestry miles away near his house. He told me she was completely wrapped up around it but calm as could be, not barking, did not chew the rope or anything.

I am at my wits end with the dog and she has my back very sore from running with her on a lead and I can’t mountain bike with her as she needs a lead. She gets at least two walks a day but at this stage it is becoming a major hassle and inconvenience to walk her.

Has anyone any advice for me as to what to do next. I am trying to hold down a full time job also so just can’t keep this up.

I need to train her but just can’t seem to get anywhere, She is driving me mad,

Any help much appreciated,

Thanks,

**Vai**

Get a halti collar would be the first thing that come to my mind. Halti or gentle leader, think there another one too that I cant remember the name of. Does the dog usually walk in front of u when u walk her?

spur

I've been that soldier - with a rescue collie. His recall has always been fine, but the problem with him was pulling - to the point where I was finding fields to run him in rather than walk him on the lead - not great idea as he had issues with some people - would run over to them and start braking frantically, teeth bared - it was nervousness, but try to tell that to someone being confronted with a very big cross collie - and in these situations, calling him was a pure waste of time.
So what did I do....... well I took him to training classes and all the issues are now gone - he needed socialisation, so it had to be classes. We now have another rescue and I am working with him myself - so far we're just on lead-work - done tiny bit of recall with him (his recall not good!)
The pulling is going to take time and lots of it - as in weeks and months as opposed to a long time every day. Put on his lead, take him somewhere you have room and each time he passes you turn sharply around. If he's a collie cross, he will cop on fairly quickly that he doesn't like that and should start easing off the pulling. 10-15 minutes of that every day is plenty with him - but have a command then that you can give to allow him to pull. He needs to learn in time that he can pull when he's allowed, but has to come back under control when he's told. This does work, but you have to be consistent. One thing I've noticed is when I take our fella on his extendable lead he takes that as a licence to pull, whereas he's much better on his shorter lead. During these sessions, do other obedience work as well - it tires them out massively. I use reward-based training - ask him to do something, ensure he does it and then give him a reward. (My fella isn't the most food motivated ever, but it does help)
On the recall, again choose your command - I wouldn't use the dog's name, but "here", "come" whatever. Then take a normal lead and call him so say "Shep, here, here, here" - Shep being his name and should grab his attention and then whatever command should bring him back to you. Use the lead to bring him back and give him a treat. You'll have to keep doing that with a short lead until you're confident he understands. Then move onto longer lead and so on. Over time reduce the treats to every 2nd time, every 3rd etc - but never to nothing at all, he should always hope he'll get something. Another thing I learned - and remember my dog's recall was good when I got him - but I lost it for a while, by always calling him back to put on his lead to go home. Now I call him back, reward him/pet him and then let him off again and I do that 3 or 4 times on every walk (off-lead). Now he's happy to come back as he has a good chance of being left off again - he no longer associates recall with being put back on his lead and home.
Not sure this one is much help to you yet, but I've discovered (with both dogs) that if they suddenly can't see me, they hate that and will coem belting back - my last dog used to do the same - his recall was questionable and at times it was the only way to get him back!! Even the new dog with the poor recall, if I hide, he'll come racing back - when 10 seconds earlier he was barrelling in the opposite direction!!!
Best of luck with it - I do feel for you, I know how bad things were for me a year ago - but now I have a really good, obedient and socialised dog! And you can also get a lead to put on your bike - google walkie dog -and you should find one. It's a rigid bar that comes out from bike, so keeps dog out from you, and there is a lead dropping down from it. My dog is big and strong and it's quite safe with him - he doesn't pull me over or anything. I think you can get extension leads for them for smaller dogs.

Zapperzy

I can't recommend headcollars enough, I use a halti but theres also the dogmatic, gentle leader and canny collar. A lot of people prefer the dogmatic because the halti can run up into the eyes but I haven't had this problem. Haltis are cheaper (Iv seen them for €10 but usually about €12) than dogmatics but the dogmatics are better quality.

There's also a few harnesses that are a similar idea to headcollars, I haven't used any but others here may be able to advise on them.

Have you tried walking while she's not pulling and once she pulls stop and turn in the opposite direction?

As for biking with her there are attachments for bikes that you attach a lead onto and it holds it out to the side so she doesn't run under the wheels. http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/dog_bicycle_baskets/biking_leads/129831 http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_cages_carriers/biking_accessories/biking_leads/146366
Iv seen better ones than these but can't remember the name of the company.

ste2006

Thanks for all the replies,

Im considering sending her off for a few weeks for training, What do people think about that,

A fella i know recommended a place called Fircroft in Co.Kildare, Anyone ever hear of it???

Yes i have the training going fairly ok with the other guy but he is smart out,

I reckon there is a lot more terrier in this dog than Collie so it may take time,

Sure ill keep trying to train her with a Halti, I have used a gentle dog before but found it no real good either. It ended up putting two big cuts in her back where the metal was hitting her because of pulling too much,

The cycling i do is mainly mountain biking so an attachment cant be a good idea :-)

Any more ideas appreciated,

Thanks,

toadfly

I wouldn't recommend it, it's better for you to learn with your dog. Have heard horror stories about a place that takes your dog for training and it's just horrific what is done to dogs there.

I am not taking about the place you mentioned in Kildare.

ppink

I dont rate the halti at all.....well it never worked for me with my pulling dog anyway. it just made her more determined. I think a lot of people use the dogmatic now with good sucess.

Can you do training classes with her yourself as opposed to send her away?? I would never send away any of mine as I would worry about the methods being used to train them, and also I would think thank I need to be an integral part of that training.

there was a thread on a particular place here not so long ago too that did that training away from home business and afaik there were people not happy with how there dogs came back.

I just re-read your post.........20 MILES away:eek: holy cow! You must be driven mad:)

ste2006

I will try the Dogmatic, Do i need to order it in or anyone know where to get one??

The worst part is when i head to the dog park and things people tell me how quiet she is and she is great, Little do they know :-)

I do a lot of climbing and Mountain biking and always bring the big fella with me with no issues,

I want to be able to do the same with her but just don't know if ill ever be able to do it,

I had hoped sending her away for training might be the answer but i understand peoples concerns,

My friend sent his dog to them as he could get nowhere and they clicker trained his dog and he was happy with the results,

Anyone know anything more about this crowd??

Thanks

toadfly

I have never heard of them so can't comment. Dogmatic have to be ordered direct, I was 6 weeks waiting for one so ended up getting a halti in local vets for €13.

ISDW

Fircroft is a brilliant place, but I totally disagree with sending your dog away to be trained. Training is as much about the owner as it is about the dog, so I believe that you and your dog should work together. Do they not offer training for you and the dog?

With my husky hat on, I say embrace the pulling:D Buy a walking belt, there are a few places you can get them, but www.countryhounds.ie do very good ones, and is an Irish company. Also buy a bungee lead, attach with a carabiner, and off you go, pulling isn't an issue, your arms stay in their sockets.

Maybe try bikejoring with the dog, mountain bikers do it as well, the dog is attached to the front of the bike, and pulls, although with you cycling as well, its not as strenuous for the dog. If you do that, make sure the dog is wearing the correct harness and that you have a bungee in the line between the dog and bike. I'm part of a club that does bikejoring www.tailsandtrails.ie see what you think.

cocker5

ste2006 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies,

Im considering sending her off for a few weeks for training, What do people think about that,

A fella i know recommended a place called Fircroft in Co.Kildare, Anyone ever hear of it???

Yes i have the training going fairly ok with the other guy but he is smart out,

I reckon there is a lot more terrier in this dog than Collie so it may take time,

Sure ill keep trying to train her with a Halti, I have used a gentle dog before but found it no real good either. It ended up putting two big cuts in her back where the metal was hitting her because of pulling too much,

The cycling i do is mainly mountain biking so an attachment cant be a good idea :-)

Any more ideas appreciated,

Thanks,

I sent my cocker there for two weeks training 4 years ago... cost around €700 if i remmeber correctly... if im very honest... biggest waste of money ever.... when we went to collect him he was HUGE... like EXTEREMELY fat... now my cocker is food driven but i felt so bad when i was him... he looked very unhappy being that size... anyway the had used food as a method of training but FAR TOO MUCH FOOD....

Our guy was around 15 months when we sent him there... he was already good at sit, stay, paw etc... but terrible at recall and on the lead.... the results was... yes he would come back for mairead in fircroft as there was no disctractions... but when you have distractions he was gone ... like a rocket.... on the lead training he still pulled like a ba*tard if im honest... so she recommended the traianing collar "Dogmatic"

Ps.... he also got kennel cough in fircroft... just a side note...

so anyway 6 months later we got a home trainer in cost around €150 for 5 hours... she trained US on how to train our dog... gave us a list of things to do... within 2 months of doing all her request he was a totally different dog....

Moral of the story is... training involves both dog and owner.... spending €700 in Fircroft... will not help you train your dog effectively this i know from personal experience...

if you want some hints or training advice my trainer gave me ... just let me know....

Best of luck