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Should I stay or should I go??

  • 06-07-2011 11:19am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Have been seeing someone for 18 months.. we are in our mid 30s.. we get on really well.. have loads in common..

    I am his first serious girlfriend. I have had serious boyfriends before him. I was quite sure about him from the beginning, perhaps because I have already been through other relationships when I wasn’t sure.

    Anyhow we have discussed the ‘future’ a few times. To be fair he has been very honest and said he doesn’t know.. He loves me and would like to think I’m in his future but he can’t say for sure and he can’t imagine settling down with marriage and kids anytime soon.. it terrifies him as he’s not sure if he could do it and says he can barely look after himself..

    This hurts me, no doubt about it. I want the guy I’m with to be so full of love for me that he wants to shout it from the rooftops and say he never wants to let me go! But I have come to an acceptance of it, in that I can see his viewpoint, I understand that he is new to relationships and lacking in confidence a bit. Also I know he has been a bit spoiled by his parents and has a youngest child syndrome so responsibility is a bit scary for him. I am also not a push-over though.. And without a doubt It is also having an effect on how I see him.. I think he is a bit spineless for not ‘seizing the day’ so to speak. I also don’t obviously like the spoiled elements and the sometimes serious lack of cop-on.. Having said that I know he can be the sweetest person I know and I do love him..

    We are completely on the same wavelength at times and it’s almost like we know what each other is thinking. This is very unique I know.. but maybe he doesn’t as he has never been out with anyone else!!

    I suppose though I’m wondering if this is enough for me.. I would like to move things on to next stage within the next six months or so.. Having been just big long term relationships I think anything else is drifting. But I get the feeling that we will end up having the same conversations in another few months, with him still saying he’s not sure..

    Anyhow I’m not really sure what I’m wondering here.. I am considering breaking up I suppose.. there is no doubt about that. I was going to wait to see how we get on over the next few months.. we have holidays planned and a few events.. (though nothing booked) but a part of me wonders if maybe I should get out now before adding more memories and making it harder to break up..

    Being honest I guess a part of me is hesitant about breaking up.. being single again.. getting the pitying looks AGAIN from friends and family (I broke up with long-term boyfriend two years ago).. But there is a more sizeable proportion focused on the fact that if I break up I could be throwing away something wonderful and a lifetime of happiness that could happen if I just wait for him to get his head together..

    If anyone has any advice on this or comments or feedback that would be great..


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    Hey OP,

    He sounds like a total headwrecker. He's having his first serious relationship in his mid 30s? Has youngest child sydrome? He's spineless? He isn't responsible? Commitment scares him? Why are you with him again? Because you don't want pitying looks from friends and family is a ****ty reason to stay with someone. You've been with him 18 months, that's long enough to know what he wants. I would lay my cards on the table and tell him what you want, if he can't give it, I would walk away. At your mid 30s it's too late to be hanging around for a man-child to grow up.

    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    curlzy wrote: »
    Hey OP,

    He sounds like a total headwrecker. He's having his first serious relationship in his mid 30s? Has youngest child sydrome? He's spineless? He isn't responsible? Commitment scares him? Why are you with him again? Because you don't want pitying looks from friends and family is a ****ty reason to stay with someone. You've been with him 18 months, that's long enough to know what he wants. I would lay my cards on the table and tell him what you want, if he can't give it, I would walk away. At your mid 30s it's too late to be hanging around for a man-child to grow up.

    Best of luck.

    I agree with this ^^ OP. I broke up with someone who was unable to commit but assured me that they loved me just couldn't deal with marriage and kids.......I too thought they were spineless for not standing up to be counted and once I thought that of them any respect I had for them was gone.
    I broke up with him and never once for a single second regretted it. We were both 32 when I ended things.


  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    At 18 months in everyone should know whether they would like to spend the rest of their lives with someone or not. You are past the honeymoon stage, and have gotten to know each other quite well.
    he has been very honest and said he doesn’t know.. He loves me and would like to think I’m in his future but he can’t say for sure and he can’t imagine settling down with marriage and kids anytime soon.. it terrifies him as he’s not sure if he could do it and says he can barely look after himself
    Translation: I cant see myself settling down with you, but I'd like you to hang around until I meet my future wife, whoever she is.

    I dunno, I could be wrong but thats how I would see it. But then, I was crystal clear with my partner when we met, that coming into my thirties I was looking for commitment, and if he wasnt prepared to offer that then grand, but not to waste the limited time I had to meet the father of my future children. He understood where I was coming from, and luckily it worked out well for me, but I would have walked away from him if he didnt see me as a lifelong commitment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭squonk


    OP, what jumped out at me was him saying he can barely look after himself so couldn't countenance the idea of marriage and kids. Seriously? What man in his mid 30's could say he can barely look after himself?

    It's a huge step alright but after 18 months if he's any way copped on he should know the score. You can't wait around forever and have said out what you want. Frankly he sounds like a disaster. Any guy with a bit of respect for you would have come to their own decision that they couldn't see marriage.kids in their future but that it was obviously something to be part of yours. The decent thing then would be to discuss it and let you go.

    He sounds like he needs to grow up, and you're right about him being spoiled. Put your cards on the table. If he's not man enough to make a decisive move here it's unfortunate but you'll have to be woman enough to. I know it's tough starting again but you don't want to waste your time on this guy. If he really loved you he'd be either committing or letting you go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭Miss Fluff


    usermane76 wrote: »
    He loves me and would like to think I’m in his future but he can’t say for sure and he can’t imagine settling down with marriage and kids anytime soon..

    You need to get him to very clearly define for you, and in no uncertain terms and as soon as possible, what he means by "anytime soon".

    You are in your 30s (as am I) and unfortunately we don't have the luxury of time to fanny about the way we did when you're in your early 20s. He's either serious about you and sees a future with you or he doesn't.

    So it really is as straightforward as having that conversation. If he continues on with his non-commital, immature whitterings then there's your answer. It will be very hard making that break BUT it will leave you free to meet someone who wants the same things as you rather than potentially posting on here in five or ten years time wondering why you wasted all that time on a non-starter. You've been single before. It's hardly a social disease. I'd far prefer to be single than be strung along by someone who'll leave me high and dry after years in some No Mans Land.

    Time to have that conversation hon.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi all,

    Thanks for your responses.. I had a feeling they would be to that effect and maybe I put this up so I would be forced to see them/hear them about my situation..

    I do know that it could just be me.. ie maybe he is looking for something better.. But to be honest knowing him.. well I know he is lacking in confidence and insecure in some ways so I can see that some of it is stemming from that.. In a way I suppose I think maybe I could just try to accept that that is what he is like .. If I want to stay with him..

    I know not getting pitying looks is not a reason to stay with someone.. but it's not just that.. But I will be honest and say it is a part.. as is the whole being single and meeting someone new down the line.. I suppose in a way I feel ready to settle.. But even if I do break with him that's not going to happen for another while anyhow.. And I don't want to be dating with settling in mind as I know that's a recipe for disaster.. Sorry a bit of a tangent I know..

    This is not the reason I'm with him by the way.. I do love him.. but yea I can't help it but my feelings for him are probably changing.. Like you penny dreadful.. How did he react when you broke up with him? Did he try to change your mind?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    A few red flags straight away OP.

    He is mid 30's and this is his first serious relationship. Alarm bells.

    He is spoilt and admits he can barely look after himself. Alarm bells.

    He has said 'he doesn't know' about the future after 18 months. Always translate 'I dont know' as 'no'. He should know by now. Waiting won't help. Alarm bells.

    He has a serious lack on cop-on. Uh OH ! You need a lot of cop-on to raise a family. Alarm bells.

    I think what you've got here is a man-baby. They're everywhere. If you do have a child with this man he will be a nightmare. He will rail against you and won't help you. Not only that he will become like a second baby himself. You'll effectively be parenting alone.

    There is a reason he hasn't had any long term relationships until his mid 30's. There is always a reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Missfluff - he means a couple of years.. He said he can't imagine it happening in the next one or two years..

    But maybe I'm rushing it too.. I know if I was in my mid twenties I couldn't have given a flying sh(te at the 18 month stage really.. But it is different now.. We have had the chat really and that is his response.. So I don't see how I can bring it up again really for a while.. I'm torn between giving it another two months. seeing how we get on over the summer, see if he does jump to it a bit more.. Or just ending it now..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    If you're both of an adult age(30s),& been dating 18months, you really need to ask yourself- if he's "not sure" now, will he ever be?
    I mean, nothing drastic is going to change in your personalities/relationship in the next 6-12months. There's no major obstacles to overcome or hoops to jump through, in that it sounds like you have a good relationship, emotionally& physically.
    Is he still living at home with his parents? Is he holding down a reasonably responsible job? Does he cook/clean for himself? Go on holidays? Ie: how dependent/independent is he?
    Does he have ambition in his life otherwise?
    What would worry me is that he's not being concrete enough in his explanation. Fair enough if he was v anti-marriage, but it's this wishy washy "I'm not sure" that's a bit dubious. If he's otherwise amenable to marriage as a general concept, all other things being equal, he should be moving things forward. Neither of you have time to faff around. To be blunt, an extra wasted 6months is a longtime re biological clock, if you plan on having a family in your mid 30s.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Hi OP,

    I would thank every poster so far but it's too much effort :D

    I agree with everyone on here.

    Please don't waste another 6 months of your precious time on a complete dud. Because it's plain to read from your post, as an outsider, that that's what you've got yourself. It's not your fault, we have to start relationships with good faith and seeing how it goes. It's not the guy's fault either because he isn't stringing you along at least, but you know yourself that this kind of relationship isn't good enough for you.

    It's a serious mismatch and you'll be doing yourself a great disservice if you stay in it a minute longer. (Yes, that's how strongly I feel about your present situation! ;))

    Best wishes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭I am a friend


    OP, I have been in your shoes, not all that long ago and I know how difficult this is…

    usermane76 wrote: »
    To be fair he has been very honest and said he doesn’t know.. He loves me and would like to think I’m in his future but he can’t say for sure and he can’t imagine settling down with marriage and kids anytime soon..


    I think, you need to take him at his word. You are together 18 months so he has had plenty of time to decide and he still doesn’t know where his life is going.. You sound like a lovely girl and he would be lucky to have you but his paralysis, for whatever reason, is leaving YOU in limbo and that’s not acceptable. In fairness to him, he has been honest with you and you need to act on that honesty by (a) taking him at his word and (b) take steps to get the life you want. Do you want marriage and kids? If so, then this is not the guy to give it to you…

    usermane76 wrote: »
    But I have come to an acceptance of it, in that I can see his viewpoint,


    He is entitled to feel that way but its no good to you…

    usermane76 wrote: »
    We are completely on the same wavelength at times and it’s almost like we know what each other is thinking. This is very unique I know.. but maybe he doesn’t as he has never been out with anyone else!!


    That’s nice but you aren’t on the same wavelength on the big issues and the big life issues so….

    usermane76 wrote: »
    I suppose though I’m wondering if this is enough for me.. I would like to move things on to next stage within the next six months or so..


    No one can tell you that. Would you be happy with him in 10 years knowing he still doesn’t marry you and that you chance of kids as most likely passed because he cant act… I personally think your current disappointment in him will turn into annoyance and into frustration and in the end its very possible you will despise him for not being willing / able to commit to you.

    usermane76 wrote: »
    Having been just big long term relationships I think anything else is drifting. But I get the feeling that we will end up having the same conversations in another few months, with him still saying he’s not sure..


    It’s very likely you will as ye have had 18 months and a number of conversations already and he still is not sure…

    usermane76 wrote: »
    Anyhow I’m not really sure what I’m wondering here.. I am considering breaking up I suppose.. there is no doubt about that. I was going to wait to see how we get on over the next few months.. we have holidays planned and a few events.. (though nothing booked) but a part of me wonders if maybe I should get out now before adding more memories and making it harder to break up..


    I would not hang around tbh…. I am not saying this guy is a bad guy and I am sure, from what you say, he is a very good guy but what he is offering is not what you want so you are left with limited choice. This problem wont go away so there is no point booking holidays and spending / wasting more time in a relationship that isn’t meeting your needs…

    usermane76 wrote: »
    Being honest I guess a part of me is hesitant about breaking up.. being single again.. getting the pitying looks AGAIN from friends and family (I broke up with long-term boyfriend two years ago).. But there is a more sizeable proportion focused on the fact that if I break up I could be throwing away something wonderful and a lifetime of happiness that could happen if I just wait for him to get his head together..


    Being single again means you get the opportunity to meet someone who wants the same as you out of life… If you stay with this guy it will eat into your confidence and into your self esteem as you will know that you are compromising yourself for another person.. As well as that, as I said above, the chance is that resentment will eat into your relationship anyway as time passes so even if you stay put the quality of the relationship wont stay as it is…..

    As for waiting for him…… Why? I am late 30’s and am very aware of a girls clock and you know yourself you don’t have all that much time to wait. So why hang onto someone who doesnt want what you want and waste more of this precious time.

    usermane76 wrote: »
    If anyone has any advice on this or comments or feedback that would be great..


    You may not like my feedback but its from experience… I broke up with my ex, have met someone since and am now expecting my first kid… Its so so easy to stay put but why settle for second best… You deserve the world so go get it and don’t just settle for the world he is offering you….


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    lkjl wrote: »
    If you're both of an adult age(30s),& been dating 18months, you really need to ask yourself- if he's "not sure" now, will he ever be?
    I mean, nothing drastic is going to change in your personalities/relationship in the next 6-12months. There's no major obstacles to overcome or hoops to jump through, in that it sounds like you have a good relationship, emotionally& physically.
    Is he still living at home with his parents? Is he holding down a reasonably responsible job? Does he cook/clean for himself? Go on holidays? Ie: how dependent/independent is he?
    Does he have ambition in his life otherwise?
    What would worry me is that he's not being concrete enough in his explanation. Fair enough if he was v anti-marriage, but it's this wishy washy "I'm not sure" that's a bit dubious. If he's otherwise amenable to marriage as a general concept, all other things being equal, he should be moving things forward. Neither of you have time to faff around. To be blunt, an extra wasted 6months is a longtime re biological clock, if you plan on having a family in your mid 30s.

    Thanks for all of your feedback.. it has been in ways hard to take but to be honest I'm not half as upset as I was about six months ago when we had our first one of these conversations or came to realisation first..

    I would like to thank all who replied and who took their time to respond. I thought I'd respond to the above questions - While he is a bit of a mammys boy he is very independnet, has a good job, his own house, cooks and cleans, etc etc. We have been on holidays together.. he's not anti-marriage.. It's not like his lifestyle is any way wild or mad.. It seems to be the thought of 'forever' that is scary to him.. And I suppose this probably has a lot to do with him never having a girlfriend before me.. To him what we have is a massive thing in that it's his first time to have a girlfriend, go on hols with one.. have the sort of conversations that couples do.. etc.. We have taken things fairly slow, particularly in the beginning.. I didn't mind that at the time.. But now I'm getting irritated..

    I know I have felt more insecure with him than anyone before and it has been a very frustrating experience.. He is moody.. in that sometimes it's amazing and he's all into it and then sometimes he is just sullen..

    The thing is we have a couple of events coming up in the next two weeks I can't really get out of without causing a lot of drama and letting other people down so will have to stick it out for a few weeks.. I do hear what you're saying that I should leave it.. I can't believe I'm back here.. Breaking up with my last boyfriend was very tough (even though I instigated it).. and here I am going through it again.. I thought this would be different.. But i can hear what you're saying and deep down I know you're all right.. it's just not right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    usermane76 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Thanks for your responses.. I had a feeling they would be to that effect and maybe I put this up so I would be forced to see them/hear them about my situation..

    I do know that it could just be me.. ie maybe he is looking for something better.. But to be honest knowing him.. well I know he is lacking in confidence and insecure in some ways so I can see that some of it is stemming from that.. In a way I suppose I think maybe I could just try to accept that that is what he is like .. If I want to stay with him..

    I know not getting pitying looks is not a reason to stay with someone.. but it's not just that.. But I will be honest and say it is a part.. as is the whole being single and meeting someone new down the line.. I suppose in a way I feel ready to settle.. But even if I do break with him that's not going to happen for another while anyhow.. And I don't want to be dating with settling in mind as I know that's a recipe for disaster.. Sorry a bit of a tangent I know..

    This is not the reason I'm with him by the way.. I do love him.. but yea I can't help it but my feelings for him are probably changing.. Like you penny dreadful.. How did he react when you broke up with him? Did he try to change your mind?

    Hi :) This is my story.
    We got together when we were 23, got on brilliantly and thought we'd be together forever. I bought a house on my own when I left college, he didin't want to make a commitment like that which I was perfectly ok with at the time. Worked out brilliantly for him (in hindsight). I rented out the spare rooms, he lived at home with his parents rent free and stayed over with me from Thurs to Sun. After 2 years of living there I pushed (again hindsight is great, I shouldn't have had to push at this stage) for us to live together there properly. He moved in around Jan/Feb 04 (we'd been together almost 5 years at this stage) and things were great for a while. However, as the years moved on I wanted/ needed out relationship to change, to move on to a more committed level.
    In 2006/07 I tried to speak to him about this and said that I want to get married and to have a family. Again, hindsight is fantastic and when I think back on this and remember the look of pure horror and fear on his face I ask myself why I didn't walk away then and there and save myself a whole load of grief in the mean time.
    I buried my feelings on the matter for a while and then for my 30th birthday I was treated to a massive surprise i.e. a trip to Vegas and Chicago and I really and truly thought that he would propose while we were away. As the holiday wore on I realised that he wasn't going to and probably never was and got so upset. When we got home I spoke to him about this and he got so angry at me for wanting more when what we had was fine. We fought and fought about it and in the end he said that, yes he did see himself spending the rest of his life with me and that we would get married but that he wasn't ready for that bit "just yet", maybe in a year or two.
    I was 30/31 now and becoming aware of how much older I was getting in terms of having a family and yet I still loved him and wanted to be with him so I waited and waited and waited. I grew more despondent about it ever happening and going to the weddings of friends was becoming something I dreaded as I always asked myself why doesn't he love me that much that he wants to make such a commitment to me?
    As time went on I tried to talk to him about it but he'd close down and do the conversation always became an argument. He promised to do it in the next few months but which few months never became clear. Eventually he agreed to do it and told me that he had booked a trip to NYC the August bank holiday weekend in 09 and we'd buy the ring and get engaged then. He was so distant, horrible and unpleasent to me in the weeks leading up to this I didn't know what was wrong with him. Then the Wednesday before we were due to go he told me that he didn't think he ever wanted to have children.
    Long story short, there was much crying and handwringing etc and he left to stay with a friend to get his head together etc etc. I thought we'd put so much into this that I didn't want to walk away from it easily and so suggested counselling. He agreed and off we went. During this time I realised that I was exhausted, always pushing and hoping and waiting and cajoling and prompting for something that he so clearly did not want. He wanted me but only on his terms. I knew that I was worth more than that, my dream and my hopes were worth more than settling for that.
    In the end he agreed to get married but I knew it wasn't ever going to work and so in December 09 I told him I was out, over and done with. It was hard, I was 32 (and a half!), single, and all kinds of other things. I'd spent 10 years with this person and was going to have to learn to be on my own again etc. However, at least this time I knew where I stood, I had made a decision about my life rather than waiting for someone else to make it or not for me.
    I got through the Christmas period with the help and support of my family and thought I was fine but I crashed and burned big time at the end of March/ early April. The emotional situation was bad, then the financial implications of being single, the new budgets handed down from the governemnt, pay cuts etc all just got on top of me.
    Again, my family stepped in big time and my sister moved in with me for a while to help out financially by paying a small rent and just to be there. I got some counselling myself too which was a great help.
    Then in June last year I got asked out by a guy and off I went on my date and we're together a year now and have lived together since March.
    Determined not to make the same mistakes again, I had the "look this is what I'm hoping for out of life" conversation. I made sure that he knew that I wans't marching us down the aisle there and then but that if things worked out that was something that was very important to me and that if it was for him too fantastic, if not please say so now and we'll go or separate ways and not waste each other's time. He said that family and marriage was important to him too and lets try this out to see if we want it together.
    I'm happy to report that things are going brilliantly a year in.
    Things can be/ are tough, don't get me wrong. The "ohh poor you all alone and single at 32" looks, the palliative care head tilt rubbish that makes you want to slap people drove me up the wall with annoyance but all the time I knew I had done the right thing by breaking up with my ex. I was terribly unhappy wishing and hoping and waiting and not knowing and this way I was in charge of my own future, my own happiness and could set about getting the things I knew I was worth and deserved. You can too.
    I've gone on for ages now so I'll leave it with this:
    You are in charge of your life, make it happen, don't let someone else and their inability to make a decision (one way or another) stop you living you life. You are worth more than that. Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat more at any time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi :) He wanted me but only on his terms.

    Thank you Penny Dreadful for your very honest, articulate post.. It was genuinely really insightful hearing from you.. I will definitely drop you a PM. (I do have a boards ID but have gone 'undercover' for this so will use that!)

    I read over your post a few times.. but the thing that kept stopping me in my tracks was your comment above.. the fact that yes someone may love you, be mad about you, want you in the here and now.. but not necessarily want you in the future or 'for keeps'..

    Having been the person who felt like that about my ex.. I can't help but think that maybe what I'm going through now is a bit of karma biting me on the ass.. Hmmm..

    Anyhow I know what you mean about the 'looks of fear' when you mention the future.. God it kinda makes me smile a bit.. it's so ridiculous that I'm even thinking about hanging around someone who can't even put up on facebook that we are in a relationship and who always has to have a 'break clause' in any of our future plans (ie we might plan to go away for a weekend, but he will always say in advance something specific might 'come up' so he may have to change plans, I have reared up on him about this at times and nothing ever does actually pop up but it's still an annoying habit - one foot in, one foot out).

    He often does say he feels very lucky to have me.. But can act the opposite.. He's totally inconsistent in his affection.

    Anyhow it has been really helpful hearing what you have to say.. I do have to spend the next couple of weekends with him though.. I could try to get out of them but would be letting a lot of other people down too.. I'm sure I can do it.. I really want to be strong though and not break down and/or get angry.. Will just have to tough it out.. I feel kinda irritated now thinking of all the ****e I am putting up with.. Am annoyed with myself for having put up with somuch for so long..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    This may be unpopular but here goes...

    First off, I agree with most posters here in that it sounds like this guy isn't ready/able to give you what you want/expect from the relationship snd may never be, so on that basis - if you REALLY want kids and so on, you should go.

    In his defence, as you say he's had a shelered upbringing so this is certainly a factor, and it does sound like he needs to "man up" a bit and take some more responsibility for himself and his life, BUT (and here comes the unpopular bit!) you said that you've only really been in serious long term relationships whereas this is his first. You've obviously "been around the block" so and as such you've learned what you want and expect from a partner, and now time is ticking on and you want to get serious and start thinking about kids.

    BUT this IS his first real relationship (and I don't buy the "there must be a (negative) reason for this" argument above - maybe he's just shy, maybe he was overshadowed by his elder siblings as a child and dosn't have the same confidence etc) and I'm sure he's well aware that all of this is going on in your head... to be fair to him at least he's trying to be honest with you about it - it's a massive commitment for anyone but as a first relationship? He must be terrified of messing it up/hurting you/being a father etc!!

    Also, guys are not "programmed" (for want of a better term) to settle down and have kids - Being in my 30s myself and having a lot of settled friends and aquaintences, I genuinely think that if most guys were honest about it, when the subject of marriage and kids comes up they will either (a) make excuses/cause arguments/run a mile to get out of it or (b) learn to live with it as the other option (c) is often to lose the girl completely (as everyone is advising here)

    I'd say most guys (and perhaps a lot of women) could happily go their whole lives without having kids or getting married - and it doesn't mean they love their partner any less or feel there's something missing in their life, but society has taught us that the end objective in life should be to "get a good job, get married and start having kids".

    There's nothing wrong with that idea IF it's what YOU (and your partner) genuinely want, but I think both sexes are under so much pressure to conform to this (from family, friends etc) that often they just "go along" with it more than anything else. Of course, hopefully both sides grow into the role and not only accept it, but come to enjoy it and love being parents - but it's not something I feel anyone should rush into or be "forced" (however gently) into either, because in those cases it's ultimately going to be the innocent child that suffers.

    So (enough rambling) my advice then OP is decide how much you love this guy (by the sound of it you don't sound convinced anyway) and if kids/marriage/the whole deal is something you want in the near future then do both of you a favour and set this guy free so you can both move on and find someone that CAN give ye what you want from life :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    This may be unpopular but here goes...

    First off, I agree with most posters here in that it sounds like this guy isn't ready/able to give you what you want/expect from the relationship snd may never be, so on that basis - if you REALLY want kids and so on, you should go.

    In his defence, as you say he's had a shelered upbringing so this is certainly a factor, and it does sound like he needs to "man up" a bit and take some more responsibility for himself and his life, BUT (and here comes the unpopular bit!) you said that you've only really been in serious long term relationships whereas this is his first. You've obviously "been around the block" so and as such you've learned what you want and expect from a partner, and now time is ticking on and you want to get serious and start thinking about kids.

    BUT this IS his first real relationship (and I don't buy the "there must be a (negative) reason for this" argument above - maybe he's just shy, maybe he was overshadowed by his elder siblings as a child and dosn't have the same confidence etc) and I'm sure he's well aware that all of this is going on in your head... to be fair to him at least he's trying to be honest with you about it - it's a massive commitment for anyone but as a first relationship? He must be terrified of messing it up/hurting you/being a father etc!!

    Also, guys are not "programmed" (for want of a better term) to settle down and have kids - Being in my 30s myself and having a lot of settled friends and aquaintences, I genuinely think that if most guys were honest about it, when the subject of marriage and kids comes up they will either (a) make excuses/cause arguments/run a mile to get out of it or (b) learn to live with it as the other option (c) is often to lose the girl completely (as everyone is advising here)

    I'd say most guys (and perhaps a lot of women) could happily go their whole lives without having kids or getting married - and it doesn't mean they love their partner any less or feel there's something missing in their life, but society has taught us that the end objective in life should be to "get a good job, get married and start having kids".

    There's nothing wrong with that idea IF it's what YOU (and your partner) genuinely want, but I think both sexes are under so much pressure to conform to this (from family, friends etc) that often they just "go along" with it more than anything else. Of course, hopefully both sides grow into the role and not only accept it, but come to enjoy it and love being parents - but it's not something I feel anyone should rush into or be "forced" (however gently) into either, because in those cases it's ultimately going to be the innocent child that suffers.

    So (enough rambling) my advice then OP is decide how much you love this guy (by the sound of it you don't sound convinced anyway) and if kids/marriage/the whole deal is something you want in the near future then do both of you a favour and set this guy free so you can both move on and find someone that CAN give ye what you want from life :)

    Hi Kaiser,

    Thanks for your feedback.. it was really interesting to get another perspective..

    I actually agree with your points and don't think they are a million miles away from what other posters are saying (ie ultimately I have to decide what I want, if I'm willing to wait or just accept him or just leave)..

    I actually agree with you about that it's his first relationship and I am conscious that I have made a multitude of mistakes in the past and was a bit of a commitment phobe myself on manys the occasion.. a lot of which I don't regret now as such but certainly wish i had acted a bit better and more considerately (both to the other guys and myself)..

    I have 'Been around the block' as you say!! :) It does give me an advantage though in knowing what's good and what isn't and how you should treat people etc.. And in ways I can see that he is doing things for the first time that I did with my first serious boyfriend at 18 so yea he is a bit behind on that score and probably needs to take things slowly..

    When I came on here yesterday I was torn between just accepting the relationship as it is now.. ie it may not be perfect but he's a good guy and he has his quirks and flaws but sure I do too..

    To be honest the only reason the whole future thing came up is because a few months ago he had a bit of a blow-out and said he didn't know if he could do this.. wasn't sure if he was able for a relationship.. We were going out for a year at the time and up to that point I was happy with how things were going.. they were slow sure and sometimes his moods and inconsistency bothered me.. but overall I thought we were getting on well (by the way I hadn't been consciously thinking marriage/kids.. but did vaguely think things felt right so things were going in the right direction).. Him throwing the curveball at me made me much more future-focused and I did ask the tough questions.. And I didn't really get the answers I wanted.. Again though considering both of our natures I was still happy to give it a bit of time and see where it goes and take the pressure off..

    I agree I do think there is a huge amount of social pressure on to get married and have kids.. and being honest I don't even think it's those things per se that are bothering me.. I think it's just committing to the relationship.. looking at someone and thinking 'yes this is the person I want to be with.. I do not want to let this person go and I want to make sure I have them in my life forever'.. I suppose marriage is the celebration of this.. But I do agree, having been to manys the wedding, that a lot of people do get married because it is the done thing and the suitable time etc.. I'm not hung up on marriage but what I am a bit hung up on is committing to the relationship 100pc.. And he's not there yet.. Will he ever be? I dunno..

    I do also appreciate his honesty.. There is nothing wrong really in how he feels.. I can understand it to a large degree.. And I know there is no point in me staying if I'm constantly wondering if it's going somewhere// looking for signs.. I either need to accept or move-on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Actually I've been thinking some more about this over lunch...

    OP you say that at the start you weren't so sure about him, and then you go on to list some things about him that to me would seem pretty fundamental differences in terms of compatibility.

    Does that mean you decided to give it a go with him in the hope that he'd change and become the man you wanted, or was it because you were sick of the "pity" from the family and friends?

    You say you split with your last boyfriend 2 years ago, sand you're with this one 18 months.... that's not much time in between. Seems to me like maybe you didn't really get to know each other before you got "serious" and now that he hasn't become what you wanted/expected you're unhappy!

    I'm genuinely not trying to be nasty or anything, but the more I thought about it the more it kinda seemed doomed from the start assuming the above is true...


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Thank you Penny Dreadful for your very honest, articulate post.. It was genuinely really insightful hearing from you.. I will definitely drop you a PM. (I do have a boards ID but have gone 'undercover' for this so will use that!)
    Just to make you aware it is against the charter to request a pm exchange outside of the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    usermane76 wrote: »
    Thank you Penny Dreadful for your very honest, articulate post.. It was genuinely really insightful hearing from you.. I will definitely drop you a PM. (I do have a boards ID but have gone 'undercover' for this so will use that!)

    I read over your post a few times.. but the thing that kept stopping me in my tracks was your comment above.. the fact that yes someone may love you, be mad about you, want you in the here and now.. but not necessarily want you in the future or 'for keeps'..

    Having been the person who felt like that about my ex.. I can't help but think that maybe what I'm going through now is a bit of karma biting me on the ass.. Hmmm..

    Anyhow I know what you mean about the 'looks of fear' when you mention the future.. God it kinda makes me smile a bit.. it's so ridiculous that I'm even thinking about hanging around someone who can't even put up on facebook that we are in a relationship and who always has to have a 'break clause' in any of our future plans (ie we might plan to go away for a weekend, but he will always say in advance something specific might 'come up' so he may have to change plans, I have reared up on him about this at times and nothing ever does actually pop up but it's still an annoying habit - one foot in, one foot out).

    He often does say he feels very lucky to have me.. But can act the opposite.. He's totally inconsistent in his affection.

    Anyhow it has been really helpful hearing what you have to say.. I do have to spend the next couple of weekends with him though.. I could try to get out of them but would be letting a lot of other people down too.. I'm sure I can do it.. I really want to be strong though and not break down and/or get angry.. Will just have to tough it out.. I feel kinda irritated now thinking of all the ****e I am putting up with.. Am annoyed with myself for having put up with somuch for so long..

    I was so angry and annoyed at myself for a long time for staying and putting up with things and the situation for as long as I did. If, when I got the first look of fear and horror, I had walked away I'd have saved myself pretty much 3 years of crap. However, I have since realised that I wasn't ready to do it then. I didn't fully accept and realise that my plan for my life wasn't going to work out the way I thought and I didn't believe that I could deal with that and develop a new one that would be just as good.
    I came to a point where I knew, quite simply just knew, that being without him and starting again would be ok, would be better and had all the possibility of actually being great. It would certainly be better than the situation I was in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    usermane76 wrote: »
    Hi Kaiser,

    Thanks for your feedback.. it was really interesting to get another perspective..

    I actually agree with your points and don't think they are a million miles away from what other posters are saying (ie ultimately I have to decide what I want, if I'm willing to wait or just accept him or just leave)..

    I actually agree with you about that it's his first relationship and I am conscious that I have made a multitude of mistakes in the past and was a bit of a commitment phobe myself on manys the occasion.. a lot of which I don't regret now as such but certainly wish i had acted a bit better and more considerately (both to the other guys and myself)..

    I have 'Been around the block' as you say!! :) It does give me an advantage though in knowing what's good and what isn't and how you should treat people etc.. And in ways I can see that he is doing things for the first time that I did with my first serious boyfriend at 18 so yea he is a bit behind on that score and probably needs to take things slowly..

    When I came on here yesterday I was torn between just accepting the relationship as it is now.. ie it may not be perfect but he's a good guy and he has his quirks and flaws but sure I do too..

    To be honest the only reason the whole future thing came up is because a few months ago he had a bit of a blow-out and said he didn't know if he could do this.. wasn't sure if he was able for a relationship.. We were going out for a year at the time and up to that point I was happy with how things were going.. they were slow sure and sometimes his moods and inconsistency bothered me.. but overall I thought we were getting on well (by the way I hadn't been consciously thinking marriage/kids.. but did vaguely think things felt right so things were going in the right direction).. Him throwing the curveball at me made me much more future-focused and I did ask the tough questions.. And I didn't really get the answers I wanted.. Again though considering both of our natures I was still happy to give it a bit of time and see where it goes and take the pressure off..

    I agree I do think there is a huge amount of social pressure on to get married and have kids.. and being honest I don't even think it's those things per se that are bothering me.. I think it's just committing to the relationship.. looking at someone and thinking 'yes this is the person I want to be with.. I do not want to let this person go and I want to make sure I have them in my life forever'.. I suppose marriage is the celebration of this.. But I do agree, having been to manys the wedding, that a lot of people do get married because it is the done thing and the suitable time etc.. I'm not hung up on marriage but what I am a bit hung up on is committing to the relationship 100pc.. And he's not there yet.. Will he ever be? I dunno..

    I do also appreciate his honesty.. There is nothing wrong really in how he feels.. I can understand it to a large degree.. And I know there is no point in me staying if I'm constantly wondering if it's going somewhere// looking for signs.. I either need to accept or move-on.

    Hi again OP,

    You replied as I did so my 2nd reply above was before I read this one :)

    We all make mistakes in relationships. No one is perfect (certainly not me!) but I think all we can do is give it our best genuine effort and hopefully are met halfway by the other person and things proceed from there.

    Clichés aside :p, that said though I don't think you (or anyone really) should ever just settle, or "put up with things" if you're not happy either.
    Yes I think he's behind the curve on relationships in general but it sounds to me that he genuinely means well, does love you and you DO seem to get on in many ways - but his inexperience is hampering his ability to progress further and that in turn is frustrating you - who IS ready.

    Personally I suppose if you were living together as effectively a married couple, sharing the bills and your lives/interests and just basically just enjoying being together, that would mean more to me than a piece of paper and a change in your last name (which can be a pain - trust me, I work in IT and it's a major hassle when someone wants all their logins changed to reflect their newly married status :p)

    I don't think he's keeping his options option though or anything like that.. I think it's just new to him and he's terrified of messing it up - are his parents married? How bout his friends/siblings? Maybe he's wary of going down a road that may have ended badly for them and hurting you in the process?

    The real question is can/are you willing to wait for him to make up his mind? He may be happy with things as they are (the "If it ain't broke" approach) or he may genuinely not be ready for that level of commitment, but equally he could decide that you are the one he wants and to have that life with too. He could also decide that he wants you but not the kids or marriage.... could you live with that?

    Ultimately I suppose you need to talk to him again. Reassure him that you understand (and appreciate) his caution and fear of hurting you, but that you do see a future together for you (assuming you do that is!) and all you're asking is for him to at least try to meet you halfway on it.

    Then give it 6 months.. if there's no change and he's still saying the same then maybe he genuinely ISN'T ready and you may have to accept that it's time to move on alone...

    In either case, I hope you end up happy :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Actually I've been thinking some more about this over lunch...

    OP you say that at the start you weren't so sure about him, and then you go on to list some things about him that to me would seem pretty fundamental differences in terms of compatibility.

    Does that mean you decided to give it a go with him in the hope that he'd change and become the man you wanted, or was it because you were sick of the "pity" from the family and friends?

    You say you split with your last boyfriend 2 years ago, sand you're with this one 18 months.... that's not much time in between. Seems to me like maybe you didn't really get to know each other before you got "serious" and now that he hasn't become what you wanted/expected you're unhappy!

    I'm genuinely not trying to be nasty or anything, but the more I thought about it the more it kinda seemed doomed from the start assuming the above is true...

    I don't think it was doomed from the start to be honest.. Yes we took it slow when we met each other.. didn't want to rush into anything but that's a good thing to do and it meant we actually did get to know each other very well. I did not 'stay' with him, I'm very happy to be with him and I'm not with him to change him or because of pity. I am genuinely mad about him.. And actually I was very sure I liked him/could see a future with him after a few months. I certainly felt a connection with him I hadn't felt with anyone before and was pretty sure we could work it out..

    We still do get on exceptionally well but the issue of commitment is making me feel quite insecure in the relationship and that's why I'm on here.

    I have been honest in saying that yea the thought of breaking up with him and getting pitying looks is something I hate the thoughts of.. but it's certainly not the reason I'm with him him.. I was devestated a couple of months ago when he expressed his uncertainty first.. Now if I seem more detached,, maybe I have been slowly setting myself up for this since then.. Hoping that he would get a moment of clarity and realise that yes he is sure he wants me in his life forever.. All of his uncertainty has impacted on how I feel about him.. I can't deny that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Hi again OP,

    You replied as I did so my 2nd reply above was before I read this one :)

    We all make mistakes in relationships. No one is perfect (certainly not me!) but I think all we can do is give it our best genuine effort and hopefully are met halfway by the other person and things proceed from there.

    Clichés aside :p, that said though I don't think you (or anyone really) should ever just settle, or "put up with things" if you're not happy either.
    Yes I think he's behind the curve on relationships in general but it sounds to me that he genuinely means well, does love you and you DO seem to get on in many ways - but his inexperience is hampering his ability to progress further and that in turn is frustrating you - who IS ready.

    Personally I suppose if you were living together as effectively a married couple, sharing the bills and your lives/interests and just basically just enjoying being together, that would mean more to me than a piece of paper and a change in your last name (which can be a pain - trust me, I work in IT and it's a major hassle when someone wants all their logins changed to reflect their newly married status :p)

    I don't think he's keeping his options option though or anything like that.. I think it's just new to him and he's terrified of messing it up - are his parents married? How bout his friends/siblings? Maybe he's wary of going down a road that may have ended badly for them and hurting you in the process?

    The real question is can/are you willing to wait for him to make up his mind? He may be happy with things as they are (the "If it ain't broke" approach) or he may genuinely not be ready for that level of commitment, but equally he could decide that you are the one he wants and to have that life with too. He could also decide that he wants you but not the kids or marriage.... could you live with that?

    Ultimately I suppose you need to talk to him again. Reassure him that you understand (and appreciate) his caution and fear of hurting you, but that you do see a future together for you (assuming you do that is!) and all you're asking is for him to at least try to meet you halfway on it.

    Then give it 6 months.. if there's no change and he's still saying the same then maybe he genuinely ISN'T ready and you may have to accept that it's time to move on alone...

    In either case, I hope you end up happy :)


    Think there is a bit of overlap.. as I replied to your previous message Kaiser but it will take a bit of moderation times to come through.. Thanks for your good wishes.. Funnily enough he knows a lot of people who are happily married,, no break-ups etc so he has a nice model of it.. I think it's just the responsibility of someone else being reliant on him that scares him..

    As for whether I could be with him but without the marriage and kids.. you know I actually have thought about that and think that I probably could but if and only if I really felt full commitment from him.. which I don't right now. And I really don't know how many more 'looks of horror' that Penny dreadful describes I can take before I tell him to take a hike..

    Penny dreadful - your comments are very interesting.. good on you for taking the bull by the horns.. There is nothing worse than feeling powerless or subdued somehow so it's great you did.

    No problem about the PMing Oryx.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    usermane76 wrote: »
    All of his uncertainty has impacted on how I feel about him.. I can't deny that.

    I found that the uncertainty generated with my ex and his unwillingness and fear to progress the relationship any further or to quite simply say, "marriage and kids is not for me" made me think a lot less of him. It made me see him as someone who was scared, unable to deal with fear and unpleasent things. Bascially it made me see him as someone who had not grown up and I found that I didn't respect that and so him at all. I couldn't be with someone I didn't respect.
    usermane76 wrote: »
    Funnily enough he knows a lot of people who are happily married,, no break-ups etc so he has a nice model of it.

    As for whether I could be with him but without the marriage and kids.. you know I actually have thought about that and think that I probably could but if and only if I really felt full commitment from him.. which I don't right now. And I really don't know how many more 'looks of horror' that Penny dreadful describes I can take before I tell him to take a hike..

    Penny dreadful - your comments are very interesting.. good on you for taking the bull by the horns.. There is nothing worse than feeling powerless or subdued somehow so it's great you did.

    No problem about the PMing Oryx.

    It was the same with us too. His parents had been married for 25 + years, his grandparents were still together, friends were happily married and starting families.......there was no "marriage is just always so awful" reason to look to.

    I also found, that as this commitment issue became bigger and bigger his behaviour reverted to that of a college student. It was as though he was trying to provoke me, upset me, I don't know subconsciously give me a reason to break up with him because he couldn't do it:confused:
    He began to go out after work with friends for "a drink" and arrive home at 7am totally smashed drunk. One time he went out and didn't arrive home until 5pm the following day without a phone call, text message, anything. At that stage I was so angry with him, myself, everything I was quite literally shaking with rage and I was actually worried about what I might do. Actually it was after that incident that I thought "WTF are you doing here. You complain about his indecision, bloody well make one for yourself". And so I did.
    Its worth saying that even at the worst times post break up, I never, not once for even a second, regretted ending things. I actually felt lighter, more in charge of myself and my life and had the strongest determination to make things better again.


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