Selenium v Rage

RiderOnTheStorm

There seems to be general consensus that a Zombie is someone infected with selenium, and most of the threads / postings here are to do with how to survive that type of Zombie. But what if its a different type of Zombie?

I think we all agree, that we have to have a plan that aims for a specific outcome, but is general enough to allow it to be adapted.

If the zombies are slow and unthinking, we can have safe houses, vehicles, weapons that can cope. But what if they are fast? Can use basic tools? Only come out at night?

What part of your plan would you need to change if you get a Rage situation?
For my plan, I would use a Ford Transit as transport (less glass to break), and the use of machette / sword is out. No way am I going close-quarter with rage victim. On the up side, a bullet would not have to distroy brain to eliminate threat (like selenium / regular Zombie), any major trauma will suffice (including drowning / fire / etc)

What would you change if they were actually the dead that rose and only came out at night?

your thoughts?

jme2010

I think we need to define the word "Zombie".

I'd like to hope that all us survivalists have the same idea about what makes a "zombie" a zombie.

1) A zombie must be a living creature, who died.

2) Regardless of how they became/become infected, they will rise as the undead.

3) As undead. They have no brain/motor functions and thus cannot achive high speed co-ordinated running.

A person/peoples who are infected with the mickey mouse rage virus are for all intents and puposes NOT ZOMBIES but pissed off sick people.

RiderOnTheStorm

ok, so rage is not zombie. But will your zombie survival plan cope with rage apocolypse? What changes would you make?

The selenium virus has to infect a living person and kill them (and then raise them), so the already dead are immune. What if it doesnt do exactly what we think it will do, and allows the Z to be fast ? have some small ability to think / use-tools?
My question is, in what situations would you change your plan?
Or would you never change the plan and wait for the right type of zombie?

krissovo

My plan change for rage would be hole up in my safe house and see what the score is, I could survive with my immediate family for 3 months in my home without leaving it.

If after 3 months and its still prevalent then plan "Z" will kick in for a dignified exit.

phill106

jme2010 wrote: »

I think we need to define the word "Zombie".

I'd like to hope that all us survivalists have the same idea about what makes a "zombie" a zombie.

1) A zombie must be a living creature, who died.

2) Regardless of how they became/become infected, they will rise as the undead.

3) As undead. They have no brain/motor functions and thus cannot achive high speed co-ordinated running.

A person/peoples who are infected with the mickey mouse rage virus are for all intents and puposes NOT ZOMBIES but pissed off sick people.

So how would romaro's fuel pump operating and machine gun wielding zombies factor in?
Or are they an aberration

ScumLord

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

ok, so rage is not zombie. But will your zombie survival plan cope with rage apocolypse? What changes would you make?

I think there's a lengthy discussion on why zombies are slow but I'm with jme2010, your not describing zombies. Your describing a horror monster that can operate outside of the laws of physics.

Basic points of zombies are,
zombies are dead people. Dead things don't take on superhuman powers that were never there in the first place.

A person could over exert themselves for a short period of time but if the body doesn't protect itself from overexertion it will damage itself and as it's dead it can't repair that damage making it permanent. Even if you did see a zombie running after someone it wouldn't last long as over exertion would mean it would rip it's body apart leaving the shambling zombie.

Our brain compensates for poor senses, when our brain becomes damaged we would not have the processing power required to run, track targets visually or develop any kind of strategy.

Have you ever met a sick person that was a better athlete sick than in good health? Sick people are not better at anything.


The closet example to what your describing is someone overloaded on some sort of steroid and as we all know there are huge side effects to someone doing steroids responsibly never mind going gaga on them.

There's no physical side effects to the thing your describing which I can't accept because there's always a negative side effect and as far as I can see the only negative side effect in running zombies is bad skin.

ChaseThisLight

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

I think we all agree, that we have to have a plan that aims for a specific outcome, but is general enough to allow it to be adapted.

I personally think any plan you have would already have allowances for adaption. They wouldn't work otherwise. Because you're right, we just don't know how it's actually going to be. But I really do believe any plan you have in place could work for anything, because the plan is, when you get down to basics, to survive.

What would you change if they were actually the dead that rose and only came out at night?

Simple...I wouldn't go out at night. I'd make sure my safehouse was set up so as not to attract attention at night, make sure anyone in my group was inside before night falls, and any traveling would be done in daylight hours.

Carter P Fly

I agree that rage infected folk are not zombies thast a given, theyre living people in a virus induced phychotic rage.

However a reanimated human who got bit, died and has been restarted as a zombie is not nessisarily the completly mindless puppet often portrayed. Its mind has been wiped clean but its more the a child acting on base instinct but I dont see why it cant run as fast as its physically able to or for as long as its stamina will last. It may not register pain as we do but it would register touch and retains learned motion cordiantion otherwise they all be flopping around like a newborn baby.

If a zombie had learned instincts of its former meat suit occupent I believe they can run, open doors, pick up objects etc. They may not knwo how to use them but the can do it as its a learned muscle memory action.

Grizzly 45

jme2010 wrote: »

I think we need to define the word "Zombie".

I'd like to hope that all us survivalists have the same idea about what makes a "zombie" a zombie.

1) A zombie must be a living creature, who died.

2) Regardless of how they became/become infected, they will rise as the undead.

3) As undead. They have no brain/motor functions and thus cannot achive high speed co-ordinated running.

A person/peoples who are infected with the mickey mouse rage virus are for all intents and puposes NOT ZOMBIES but pissed off sick people.

Errr...How about if we just go back to basics too.What if it is what the genuine zombies of Voodo and Haithin origin??IE a drugged up and comatose person who is under control of a voodoo witch doctor..
Who basically uses them as a slave,ala serpent and the rainbow.Not as much fun as the Hollywood myth and histironics granted,but possibly the more realistic type of zombie?An chemical experiment that went wrong??
Rage,is more somthing like a version of galloping rabies.

ScumLord

Carter P Fly wrote: »

I agree that rage infected folk are not zombies thast a given, theyre living people in a virus induced phychotic rage.

However a reanimated human who got bit, died and has been restarted as a zombie is not nessisarily the completly mindless puppet often portrayed. Its mind has been wiped clean but its more the a child acting on base instinct

I wouldn't really agree with that, parts of the brain have died, those functions just aren't there any more. If we where to compare the brain with a computer it's not like the brain has been formatted and ready for more information. It's more like some ones taken out the hard drive and graphics card. You can still turn on the PC and stuff will look like it's happening but the computer is essentially dead with no hope of recovery.

but I dont see why it cant run as fast as its physically able to or for as long as its stamina will last.

How long did it takes any of us to learn how to walk? Walking and any balance related action is complicated and again if parts of your brain that held that memory of how to walk are dead and unavailable, plus your inner ear has gone solid giving no feedback to those dead parts of the brain you won't have the ability to walk very well.

It may not register pain as we do but it would register touch and retains learned motion cordiantion otherwise they all be flopping around like a newborn baby.

You'd have to assume if it can't feel pain it's not going to have much feedback to the brain in any way shape or form.

SmileyPaul

I;m too tired to give any specific input so I'm gonna be a bit of a douche....

You spelt Solanum wrong

Sticky_Fingers

SmileyPaul wrote: »

I;m too tired to give any specific input so I'm gonna be a bit of a douche....

You spelt Solanum wrong

There's no semicolon in I'm:p

You are bested my friend and now must refer to me as El Douche

SmileyPaul

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

There's no semicolon in I'm:p

You are bested my friend and now must refer to me as El Douche

There's also supposed to be a space between I'm and :P

I also did already say I was tired

Good day to you El Douche, you may call me the Grammar Nazi.

jme2010

SmileyPaul wrote: »

Good day, you may call me the Grammar Nazi.

You may call me the Grammer Zombie :eek:

RiderOnTheStorm

SmileyPaul wrote: »

You spelt Solanum wrong

can I claim at this stage that I was talking about chemical element 34 (selenium) and not the zombie virus solanum ?? maybe not ....

I might have be steering folk down the wrong track with the mention of Rage, as I know its not a true zombie, but the point of the thread is what will you do if the zombies dont match 100% those described in Max Brooks lit.

I know the current thinking is that solanum will re-animate the corpse and it will be slow moving (due to reduced brain function), but what do you do if you are faced with fast moving zombies? Do you not initiate your Z-plan ? or adapt it? What parts of yor plan will you adapt and when?

Please dont let this thread descend into a debate over the use of Rage in a zombie forum, or if true zombies can run / talk / think ...

If they are slow, a bike or motor bike may do, but if they are fast, I will def have to get a vehicle.
If they are stronger than normal, then my house will not suffice as safe-house, but I will have to get somewhere with better defences.
If they have some thought / memory, then they may be afriad of fire.
If its a brain parasite, then death of the host will stop it, and any major trauma to the body will suffice, so the use of shotguns is back on the table.

ok some if this is obvious, but I want to get your opinion. What thoughts occurs to you might not occur to me (or others) .... lets share before it happens so we can prepare.

RiderOnTheStorm

jme2010 wrote: »

... Grammer Zombie

he he .... what will i do if they zombies are re-animated as a grammer correcting horde?
I will throw the book at them

(*reminder: pick up more books before G-Z day)

Gandalph

If its a slow shuffling zombie case epidemic then it cant break out, Id be embarrassed for humanity if they let slow dribbling moronic cavemen take over the world.

If they are the same faster more energetic zombies then the chances are alot higher.

So I think Im answering the OPs question is saying there is no change in my plan between the 1st and 2nd case of zombies because I simply do no believe the 1st scenario will happen at all.

ScumLord

Gandalph wrote: »

If its a slow shuffling zombie case epidemic then it cant break out, Id be embarrassed for humanity if they let slow dribbling moronic cavemen take over the world.

If they are the same faster more energetic zombies then the chances are alot higher.

So I think Im answering the OPs question is saying there is no change in my plan between the 1st and 2nd case of zombies because I simply do no believe the 1st scenario will happen at all.

The rage virus couldn't get anywhere due to it being too lethal. It's one thing in a city but it's completely unlikely that they could run a couple of dozen miles to the next city and due to it's instantaneous affects it can't travel at all.

The slow zombies however could. I don't accept that the only method of transfer is through biting. It would be impossible to spread if that was the case. As a flu like virus with a gestation period of a few hours it could cross continents.

Mahatma coat

the Original Humans spread on foot from one point in Africa to cover the entire globe, and they were limited by such constraints ad Hunger fatigue and uncertainty

do not doubt the ability of a horde of shufflers to conquer the planet

ScumLord

Mahatma coat wrote: »

the Original Humans spread on foot from one point in Africa to cover the entire globe, and they were limited by such constraints ad Hunger fatigue and uncertainty

do not doubt the ability of a horde of shufflers to conquer the planet

They'll wear themselves down to nothing if they try. The people would stop to rest their bodies. The zombies would just keep going until they feel apart.

ChaseThisLight

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't accept that the only method of transfer is through biting. It would be impossible to spread if that was the case. As a flu like virus with a gestation period of a few hours it could cross continents.

This is what I'm afraid of...the virus spreading ala Stephen King's The Stand. An airborne pathogen is so easily spread, there'd be no way to stop it. And even if it isn't spread this way and is spread just by bite, who's to say it can't mutate and become airborne?

Now, talking about which would spread faster.....Rage is instantaneous - you change within a handful of seconds, and if you're not caught out and killed right away you go ape**** and attack anyone near you, thus infecting them, and so on - so it spreads really fast.

With zombies, if infected you appear to have a gestation period so you go unnoticed until it's too late and in the meantime - depending on gestation time - you may have traveled some distance, thus spreading the infection further.

Either scenario is bad - but at least with Rage you know right away and so that should be able to be cut off/quarantined faster than a zombie infestation.

RiderOnTheStorm

According to WWZ, the greatest threat the zombies pose, is their ability to wage total war. Which is unlike any human army ever did before. They do not need to rest, regroup, resupply, etc. They are not afraid and cannot be made retreat or surrender. They are slow but relentless, and they are on the move 24x7. They have the ability to wear down any & all human resistance. Unless they are taken out. I think a slow zombie outbreak will pose quite a threat to humanity, if it gathers a foot hold. In the short term, (very short term) it will be possible to dodge them, and move from street to street (and up buildings and across fields), but thats only on a day to day basis. This evasive manoeuvres will be very tiring and costly on resources . Humans need to rest & get treatment (and re-stock supplies). The Zombies are still out there .....

So, imagine facing the same zombies, but now they are fast moving. You now cant just duck back around the corner if you see a few on the street. If you climb a ladder, they come after you .... Lots of plans & options now change.

More thoughts on what to do if they are fast ....
=Dont baracade yourself in your house by removing the stairs. Pick a better house, one that can be secured on all sides (ground floor & upwards).
=Do use different weapons. Shotguns are in, swords are out.
=Lay traps (but dont depend on them). Make approach to your fortress hard, and slow them down. Wrecked cars as barriers. Ropes, nets, scrap metal etc (layed out like a giant patio around your house) to trip and slow them (think giant caltraps). Remember to leave a couple of ways out for yourself (my fav is still an escape thru attic to house next door, and keep going until you get to end of street)
=If they are not typical (slow) zombies, then they may infect you by blood splatter, so wear protection (goggles, face shield, gloves, etc)
=When you go out looking for supplies, bring more people with you to act as look outs & plan your exit before you go in.
=Tougher vehicles are a must. You have to be able to take refuge in it if the crap hits the fan, and it has to be able to stand up to a battering, and still move off. Stood beside an Ianrod Eireann (spelling?) bus the other day .... they are big things! And the windows are high up ... could be a good vehicle to live (sort term) . Lots of room 'downstairs' to hold supplies, fuel, etc. And the seating areas can be converted to living / sleeping areas.

jme2010

If it were the case of a classic outbreak with no cure in sight. I think a huge perimeter/great wall/ Berlin wall around Dublin-Kildare-Meath would suffice for a few years.

All zombies still inside when the "fence" was complete would be hunted down and destroyed easily.

This would ensure a slow shufflers could not get into the safe zone, but we would have farms, factories shops and the sea to live an almost normal existence.

ScumLord

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

They do not need to rest,

This isn't really true though, the fact is their bodies do need rest they just don't appreciate that fact. Although it could be seen as they don't need rest as they can't do what the living do in their rest period which is repair the daily damage a body get's from normal everyday wear and tare.

phill106

Speaking of rage, in 28 weeks later it seemed a tad riciclous that he remained human enough

to use his keycard to get into various areas, and then follow them.

Sticky_Fingers

phill106 wrote: »

Speaking of rage, in 28 weeks later it seemed a tad riciclous that he remained human enough

to use his keycard to get into various areas, and then follow them.

Thought it was even more ridiculous that a glorified handyman would have been given the codes to the most sensitive military areas in the first place. It would have been a much better story

if the dad was killed off earlier and they were just chased by a random group of infected instead of going for the emotional "daddy's trying to eat my face angle".

paulmclaughlin

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Thought it was even more ridiculous that a glorified handyman would have been given the codes to the most sensitive military areas in the first place. It would have been a much better story

if the dad was killed off earlier and they were just chased by a random group of infected instead of going for the emotional "daddy's trying to eat my face angle".

This is a spoiler.

jme2010

jme2010 wrote: »

I think we need to define the word "Zombie".

I'd like to hope that all us survivalists have the same idea about what makes a "zombie" a zombie.

1) A zombie must be a living creature, who died.

2) Regardless of how they became/become infected, they will rise as the undead.

3) As undead. They have no brain/motor functions and thus cannot achive high speed co-ordinated running.

A person/peoples who are infected with the mickey mouse rage virus are for all intents and puposes NOT ZOMBIES but pissed off sick people.

Actually - it is possible to debate 3). They should be able to run, especially in the early stages of the infection, when there is no degeneration of muscles and limbs. However, over time they should become the shambling masses we come to recognize.

I would also like to throw another virus that produces Zombies into the Mix- Kellis-Amberlee, as seen in the Feed and Deadline novels by Mira Grant

In the summer of 2014, three men tried to help the world, and nearly ended it instead. In Colorado, Dr. Daniel Wells worked on a genetically engineered virus designed to cure cancer, finally achieving a breakthrough with teenager Amanda Amberlee. In Virginia, Dr. Alexander Kellis worked on a similar program to wipe out the common cold. And in Pennsylvania, Brandon Majors led a group of college students to break into Dr. Kellis' lab, setting free the experimental and incompletely tested virus.
Soon, the two viruses met and combined to form Kellis-Amberlee, which turned out to be the Virus: it caused the dead to get back up as zombies and eat people, which of course generated more zombies. The initial series of outbreaks was dubbed The Rising

RiderOnTheStorm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would also like to throw another virus that produces Zombies into the Mix- Kellis-Amberlee, as seen in the Feed and Deadline novels by Mira Grant

Thats a different type of Z a'right. Do your plans change if its not caused by solanum virus but by K-A virus? What is your plan for dealing with this scenario if it occurs?