Waterford TD`s vote for Water Charges

MoodRacer

I think this went kinda un-noticed:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/06/16/00008.asp

Deasy and Coffey voted for the introduction of water charges. It appears Halligan and Conway didn`t bother their arses to turn up!

I don`t know about you but I would certainally expect my local TD`s to turn up for a vote on a major policy issue that will effect everyone in the country not only their local constituency.

I think we made a big mistake.

DjBryn

Shur look I'm sure everyone will gladly pay all the new taxes coming down the line, can't ever see them waking up ....

Sully

Well, whats the proposal if they cant bring in taxes? Regardless of what tax is brought in, people will complain. A lot of EU countries have water charges and I think this particular tax is going towards, and only towards, the water network anyway.

Lads, lets face it. We are ****ed and we will be getting a lot of taxes and cuts down the line. Everyone was told it wouldn't be easy and its never going to be when your effectively bankrupt.

wellboytoo

Sully ALL of EU countries have water charges, except the ould Emerald Ilse

giles lynchwood

An econmist from dublin stated during the week on radio that"it will take up to 2 years for the state to recouprate the cost of installing water meter´s in the first place ,(purchase,labour,etc)"this mean´s no benifit to the state for 2 year´s ?.He suggested we look at the American system,where they sell investment bond´s in their water system generating instant revenue and thus improving the service. I think this Government in their misplaced zest to try and please EMF have not thought this through as will happen in all section´s of our bailout for year´s to come.

Cabaal

giles lynchwood wrote: »

An econmist from dublin stated during the week on radio that"it will take up to 2 years for the state to recouprate the cost of installing water meter´s in the first place ,(purchase,labour,etc)"this mean´s no benifit to the state for 2 year´s ?.He suggested we look at the American system,where they sell investment bond´s in their water system generating instant revenue and thus improving the service. I think this Government in their misplaced zest to try and please EMF have not thought this through as will happen in all section´s of our bailout for year´s to come.

Long term however the water charges is a better money maker and you have to remember they need long term finances to replace the money spinner which was houses.

Bonds might give money upfront but water charges is best long term and we need long term solutions

DjBryn

They could start by kickin the imf to touch..
Water has been free for generations and can stay that way, they could save millions by stopping the addition of toxic sodium flouride into it straight away...

Back to the op chickening out of the vote is worse than goin with it....

Sully

Look at the state of our water supply. Ill gladly pay for its improvement, just like our european counterparts.

Don't blame the current government for the IMF, blame the last. At least the current crowd are doing a better job. Nobody else is offering any alternative so we haven't much else to compare to.

AdMMM

MoodRacer wrote: »

I think this went kinda un-noticed:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/06/16/00008.asp

Deasy and Coffey voted for the introduction of water charges. It appears Halligan and Conway didn`t bother their arses to turn up!

I don`t know about you but I would certainally expect my local TD`s to turn up for a vote on a major policy issue that will effect everyone in the country not only their local constituency.

I think we made a big mistake.

Your beloved party didn't get any publicity over this because it was Private Members Business. Nice to see that you come on here over a month later to try and drum up some.

Speak Now

Already pay for my own water but i'm sure they'll find someway of hitting me twice.

Sully

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Already pay for my own water but i'm sure they'll find someway of hitting me twice.

How so? Business owner?

albert kidd

Sully wrote: »

Look at the state of our water supply. Ill gladly pay for its improvement, just like our european counterparts.

Don't blame the current government for the IMF, blame the last. At least the current crowd are doing a better job. Nobody else is offering any alternative so we haven't much else to compare to.

you reap what you sow sully..people voted in those clowns.

the very same as the latest clowns were voted in.

Speak Now

Sully wrote: »

How so? Business owner?

Nope one mile outside city boundary but council don't run pipes down this backroad. Drilled our own borehole out the back. Probably costs about €300 annually to treat/maintain after intial layout. Biggest nuisance is no water when we get power cuts. What are we expecting charges to be, €200 per year?

giles lynchwood

albert kidd wrote: »

you reap what you sow sully..people voted in those clowns.

the very same as the latest clowns were voted in.

This crowd are clown´s,the last crowd were dishonest liar´s and should at the very least be stripped of their pension´s if not their liberty.

giles lynchwood

Sully wrote: »

Look at the state of our water supply. Ill gladly pay for its improvement, just like our european counterparts.

Don't blame the current government for the IMF, blame the last. At least the current crowd are doing a better job. Nobody else is offering any alternative so we haven't much else to compare to.

I agree if the revenue collected is reinvested into the water service,but somehow i am not hopeful,for example at our current rate of motor tax our road´s should be paved of gold but alas.

DjBryn

If anyone thinks water rates are for the supply they are naieve, all of it will be used to pay off 9billion interest/profits for the trioca's loans

Max Powers

My stance on a water charge has softened only a small bit, I realise that nearly all other EU countries pay for it. However, in a country with an abundance of water, rains every second day, loads of rivers, surrounded by it, I see little need to charge for it as it is a capital cost mainly.

I do however accept that we need to get a more predictable level of tax income in. Water charges is a ( I dont want to say reasonable) way to do this. We all know that they need to cut the expenditure as a priority
1. the over-inflated, under effecttive public service
2. the ridiculous amount of quangos (people dont know the half of em)
3. Social welfare unfortunatley needs to be cut back (its one of our biggest spenders)
4. Health (another one of our biggest spenders and under-effective, under-efficient)


People need to know, our deficit still is something crazy like 20 billion (dont quote me on that) so we are effectively spending 20 billion more than we get in every year, its unsustainable, we are borrowing money (EU,IMF) to pay for the current expenditure, it cant go on.

Smiley Burnett

Over 1 BILLION EURO is spent annually on providing clean drinking water to the population.
At the moment all non-domestic users, such as businesses and schools, are paying for water.

Local Authorities' income has practically disappeared due to the drop in development levies.

of course sinn fein and others will jump and down and complain about service charges etc, but I have only one question for them---

In Northern Ireland, (where sinn fein are in Govt and run numerous councils) how much do households pay in Council Taxes every year??????

DjBryn

Councils are part of the over inflated public service

200motels

I will not pay water charges and I'm old enough to remember the last time they tryed to but off peoples water, we drove them back up Paddy Brownes Road and I'll do the same again.

rasper

the water tax will happen and I do agree with it in theory, however it will push people over the edge. We have always paid for our water indirectly so this will be double taxation, it will start at X amount and increase at every opportunity, prop ably we'll end up having to privatise out system as ours banks drag us deeper and deeper.
We're on a slippy slope down and the extra tax should only be brought in as a short measure with a 4/5 year review by an independent group not by the parasites and their cronies, inc politicians, unions and employers who together have brought the country to their knees

wellboytoo

200motels wrote: »

I will not pay water charges and I'm old enough to remember the last time they tryed to but off peoples water, we drove them back up Paddy Brownes Road and I'll do the same again.

T'will be no bother spot ya , with the smell off of you when they cut off your water for a few weeks.

Cabaal

I always find it amusing that people see no problem wasting water in their homes, they think nothing of their usage and many have a massive issue about paying money for this utlity.

However these same people will go into a shop and pay 1e+ for a bottle of water (avg of 500ml) that is no better then the water they get from their tap and yet they'll willingly do it.

wellboytoo

Cabaal wrote: »

I always find it amusing that people see no problem wasting water in their homes, they think nothing of their usage and many have a massive issue about paying money for this utlity.

However these same people will go into a shop and pay 1e+ for a bottle of water (avg of 500ml) that is no better then the water they get from their tap and yet they'll willingly do it.

Which is dearer than petrol!!!! it is laughable

chelloveks

DjBryn wrote: »

Shur look I'm sure everyone will gladly pay all the new taxes coming down the line, can't ever see them waking up ....

200motels wrote: »

I will not pay water charges and I'm old enough to remember the last time they tryed to but off peoples water, we drove them back up Paddy Brownes Road and I'll do the same again.

Go wan we,ll be right behind ya ready for the revolution. There's more feckin water in Eire than any other resource so why ye have to pay for it is beyond me. I pay 90 dollars per quarter in NJ for ours! Maybe I can chase our fookers up Paddy Browns Road too!

Cabaal

chelloveks wrote: »

There's more feckin water in Eire than any other resource so why ye have to pay for it is beyond me.

Water and potable water are very different things, also if people just used it for drinking we'd have loads but its the 1,000's of other uses that uses so much water. Washing your car, clothes, dishes, yourself, heating systems, cooling systems, power generation, sanitation etc etc etc.

All these uses and the need to get water to where its needed as well as making sure its clean costs money, so while there may be loads of water in Kerry for example this isn't much good to people in Dublin.

In short 71% of this planet is water but that doesn't mean we can all drink it nor does it mean everyone gets the benefit of it,

Sully

Look at Spain -- they cant drink the water, yet they still have Water Charges.

rasper

also a pity they let 100,000+ houses be built and countlless renovated without a mention of water harvesting or conservation let alone taxes, as far as anyone was concerned like everything is all grand, then turn around and call 40 litres a day as generous, and we cant blame FF and who controlled the councils.
Why didnt the councils build this in when they were firing out planning permissions left right and centre

Speak Now

Sully wrote: »

Look at Spain -- they cant drink the water, yet they still have Water Charges.

I think they can Sully us tourists wont

Cabaal

rasper wrote: »

Why didnt the councils build this in when they were firing out planning permissions left right and centre

Like anybody they won't do it unless they have to, because there was no legislation they didn't consider this

The lack of legislation can of course be blamed on FF but it can alsobe blamed on the numerous other partys and governments before FF, people are quick to blame one party (people's memories are short so they tend to blame the last party/government).

Something on this scale needs long term planning and implementation, which was a failure of many many people and partys, sad really

Cabaal

Sully wrote: »

Look at Spain -- they cant drink the water, yet they still have Water Charges.

err except thats not accurate,

http://www.spain.info/en/antes_del_viaje/consejos-practicos/varios/

Can you drink the tap water?

Drinking water supply is guaranteed throughout Spain. We have stringent control systems that guarantee water quality. Nevertheless, in some Mediterranean coastal areas consumption of bottled water is widespread.

Like Ireland and any other EU country Spain must follow EU regulations and guidelines or they will be fined (same as we will).

We just choose to ignore this and continue to waste money on bottled water

Of course if I operated a hotel or bar in spain I wouldn't correct tourists on the fact they could use the tap water, it would be idiotic for me to do so because I can continue to make some easy money from selling bottled water

rasper

Cabaal wrote: »

Like anybody they won't do it unless they have to, because there was no legislation they didn't consider this

The lack of legislation can of course be blamed on FF but it can alsobe blamed on the numerous other partys and governments before FF, people are quick to blame one party (people's memories are short so they tend to blame the last party/government).

Something on this scale needs long term planning and implementation, which was a failure of many many people and partys, sad really

If the water infrastructure was in such a mess, which we've never heard about really until they need cash then it was the local councils obligation to do something, if they didnt they were/are incompetant so therefore their should be no extra taxation without reform, I dont blame one party as I can see the whole system is rotten to the core

chelloveks

rasper wrote: »

If the water infrastructure was in such a mess, which we've never heard about really until they need cash then it was the local councils obligation to do something, if they didnt they were/are incompetant so therefore their should be no extra taxation without reform, I dont blame one party as I can see the whole system is rotten to the core

Yea welcome to democracy ruled by kickbacks and cash under the table!

MoodRacer

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

of course sinn fein and others will jump and down and complain about service charges etc, but I have only one question for them---

In Northern Ireland, (where sinn fein are in Govt and run numerous councils) how much do households pay in Council Taxes every year??????

Here`s your answer councillor - ZERO. Since 2007 the Executive has stumped up £200 million a year to replace the revenue funding for NIW (Northern Ireland Water) that would have been collected through the charges.

Try sticking to the facts for a change pal:D

Sully wrote: »

Regardless of what tax is brought in, people will complain.

Of course people will complain Sully. They will complain because this unjust tax would not be necessary if FG didn`t continue FF`s failed banking policy despite all the pre election rhetoric such as negotiating the interest rate on the loans or not putting "another cent" into the banks until bondholders were made take some of the losses. All bullsh1t. FG are so long in opposition they have no negotiation skills. How many opportunities have FG had to negotiate the interest rate but coundnt even get it onto the agenda of ther ecofin meetings?

The bottom line is FG/LAB are putting the bond holders before the needs of the Irish people. Similar carry on this week with the Roscommon Hospital saga, more broken promises. We won`t even go into the pre election lies about the upgrade of WIT.

Sully wrote: »

Look at the state of our water supply. Ill gladly pay for its improvement, just like our european counterparts.

You will gladly pay because you are clearly in a position to pay. What about the people that simply cannot pay?

AdMMM wrote: »

Your beloved party didn't get any publicity over this because it was Private Members Business. Nice to see that you come on here over a month later to try and drum up some.

Well I thought it was important to let local people know what way their elected reps are behaving. It`s clearly a little uncomfortable for you but I reckon you should get used it. There is a firestorm coming down the line pal, straight in the direction FG/LAB. You won`t know what hit ye pal;)

200motels

MoodRacer wrote: »

Here`s your answer councillor - ZERO. Since 2007 the Executive has stumped up £200 million a year to replace the revenue funding for NIW (Northern Ireland Water) that would have been collected through the charges.

Try sticking to the facts for a change pal:D



Of course people will complain Sully. They will complain because this unjust tax would not be necessary if FG didn`t continue FF`s failed banking policy despite all the pre election rhetoric such as negotiating the interest rate on the loans or not putting "another cent" into the banks until bondholders were made take some of the losses. All bullsh1t. FG are so long in opposition they have no negotiation skills. How many opportunities have FG had to negotiate the interest rate but coundnt even get it onto the agenda of ther ecofin meetings?

The bottom line is FG/LAB are putting the bond holders before the needs of the Irish people. Similar carry on this week with the Roscommon Hospital saga, more broken promises. We won`t even go into the pre election lies about the upgrade of WIT.



You will gladly pay because you are clearly in a position to pay. What about the people that simply cannot pay?



Well I thought it was important to let local people know what way their elected reps are behaving. It`s clearly a little uncomfortable for you but I reckon you should get used it. There is a firestorm coming down the line pal, straight in the direction FG/LAB. You won`t know what hit ye pal;)

As a member of the labour party all I can say is we're not doing didly squat while in government and I'm not happy about it.

MoodRacer

200motels wrote: »

As a member of the labour party all I can say is we're not doing didly squat while in government and I'm not happy about it.

Thanks for the honesty. Many of the other commentators on here seem to still be in denial.

Wonder what crap the Govt will come out with tomorrow in relation to todays down grading of Irish bonds to junk status due to the expectation that Ireland will require an additional bailout (like Leo Varadakir was talking about two weeks ago before he was clipped round the ear by the FG hierarchy!)?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/moodys-downgrades-ireland-baa3-junk

In July 2010 after another down grade by Moody`s, FG`s then deputy finance spokesman Kieran O`Donnell said it `was a vote of no confidence in the Government's economic and banking strategy`.

I am suggesting that because FG/LAB have adopted essentially the same economic and banking strategy as FF, and that our bonds have been downgraded to junk status, by any reasonable measure this is a surely a vote of no confidence in the current FG/LAB/FF economic and banking strategy??

Sully

Lets stick with the water charges folks, we have gone a bit of track

Otherwise, head over to the Politics forum to get into the nitty gritty!

Suirview

MoodRacer wrote: »

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

of course sinn fein and others will jump and down and complain about service charges etc, but I have only one question for them---

In Northern Ireland, (where sinn fein are in Govt and run numerous councils) how much do households pay in Council Taxes every year??????

Here`s your answer councillor - ZERO. Since 2007 the Executive has stumped up £200 million a year to replace the revenue funding for NIW (Northern Ireland Water) that would have been collected through the charges.

Try sticking to the facts for a change pal:D

Sully wrote: »

Regardless of what tax is brought in, people will complain.

Of course people will complain Sully. They will complain because this unjust tax would not be necessary if FG didn`t continue FF`s failed banking policy despite all the pre election rhetoric such as negotiating the interest rate on the loans or not putting "another cent" into the banks until bondholders were made take some of the losses. All bullsh1t. FG are so long in opposition they have no negotiation skills. How many opportunities have FG had to negotiate the interest rate but coundnt even get it onto the agenda of ther ecofin meetings?

The bottom line is FG/LAB are putting the bond holders before the needs of the Irish people. Similar carry on this week with the Roscommon Hospital saga, more broken promises. We won`t even go into the pre election lies about the upgrade of WIT.

Sully wrote: »

Look at the state of our water supply. Ill gladly pay for its improvement, just like our european counterparts.

You will gladly pay because you are clearly in a position to pay. What about the people that simply cannot pay?

AdMMM wrote: »

Your beloved party didn't get any publicity over this because it was Private Members Business. Nice to see that you come on here over a month later to try and drum up some.

Well I thought it was important to let local people know what way their elected reps are behaving. It`s clearly a little uncomfortable for you but I reckon you should get used it. There is a firestorm coming down the line pal, straight in the direction FG/LAB. You won`t know what hit ye pal;)

Not sure you are telling the full story here pal

In NI where your party SF are in power every houshold pay annual rates which pays for water, waste collection etc

And this in a country which is heavily subsidised by uk exchequer

So tell the full story while you are at it …

Unfortunately we've no "big brother" to subsidise us hence the need for a sustainable model of funding services

Simple as that in my view

Sinn Fein are against everything but never tell us where they would get the money to run the Country if they were ever in government -

SF = zero economic credibility

MoodRacer

Suirview wrote: »

Not sure you are telling the full story here pal

In NI where your party SF are in power every houshold pay annual rates which pays for water, waste collection etc

And this in a country which is heavily subsidised by uk exchequer

So tell the full story while you are at it …

Unfortunately we've no "big brother" to subsidise us hence the need for a sustainable model of funding services

Simple as that in my view

Sinn Fein are against everything but never tell us where they would get the money to run the Country if they were ever in government -

SF = zero economic credibility

Check this pal:
http://www.consumercouncil.org.uk/key-issues/water-charges/

Conor Murphy (SF minister for regional development in NI) has repeatedly deferred the introduction of water charges.

Then take a look at this. Policies and figures:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

SF = zero economic credibility - now that`s a new one......did you come up with that all by yourself??:p

Ironic don`t you think that the new FG/LAB Govt, who were incedently voted in on the promise of change, have continued with essentially the same failed economic policies of the previous govt? The same policies that they lambasted when in opposition.....What`s changed?

Now that`s zero economic credibility:P

Suirview

MoodRacer wrote: »

Suirview wrote: »

Not sure you are telling the full story here pal

In NI where your party SF are in power every houshold pay annual rates which pays for water, waste collection etc

And this in a country which is heavily subsidised by uk exchequer

So tell the full story while you are at it …

Unfortunately we've no "big brother" to subsidise us hence the need for a sustainable model of funding services

Simple as that in my view

Sinn Fein are against everything but never tell us where they would get the money to run the Country if they were ever in government -

SF = zero economic credibility

Check this pal:
http://www.consumercouncil.org.uk/key-issues/water-charges/

Conor Murphy (SF minister for regional development in NI) has repeatedly deferred the introduction of water charges.

Then take a look at this. Policies and figures:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

SF = zero economic credibility - now that`s a new one......did you come up with that all by yourself??:p

Ironic don`t you think that the new FG/LAB Govt, who were incedently voted in on the promise of change, have continued with essentially the same failed economic policies of the previous govt? The same policies that they lambasted when in opposition.....What`s changed?

Now that`s zero economic credibility:P

You still dont get it do you Pal -

SF administer a system in NI that collects rates from every household and have no problemo with it

You said yourself that the UK exchequer offsets the water charge to the tune if £200 million -

Now where on Gods earth does that money come from?

Bingo - the taxpayer

Now in our bankrupt republic unfortunately we dont have £200 mill to plug the gap or some beneficiary like queenio in the north to give it to us - ain't she generous and Sf gladly accept the subsidy from the crown eh

So to get back to the point - you and your SF economic illiterates still haven't pointed out where you'd get the money to run our country and pay for our public services

Your so called manifesto to tax the rich would stump up €400million max that leaves a massive economic gap to be Bridged - care to tell us how that can be done?
Ye quickly dropped yer crazy SF proposals to raise corporation tax so ye now depend on lazy populist rhetoric about taxing the rich

I presume SF/IRA have given up walkin into banks to collect handy money - is that right pal?

Sf have zero economic credibility and have been consistently exposed on their incompetence - just ask Gerry

Ever ask yourself why - in an unprecedented recession, people seething with anger about budget cuts etc that your party isn't rising much in the polls ?

Bingo sgain - ye are simply not trusted by the Jrish people

Finally ye call yourselves socialist republicans??

Look what socialist Gov did to Greece - huge gov public deficits due to unsustainable public services - exactly what u and your party are now propagating

So Pal - save the lectures and the cutting and pasting from SF manifestos - it's actually frightening that you actually believe the tripe contained in them

Stan Nangle

giles lynchwood wrote: »

An econmist from dublin stated during the week on radio that"it will take up to 2 years for the state to recouprate the cost of installing water meter´s in the first place ,(purchase,labour,etc)"this mean´s no benifit to the state for 2 year´s ?.He suggested we look at the American system,where they sell investment bond´s in their water system generating instant revenue and thus improving the service. I think this Government in their misplaced zest to try and please EMF have not thought this through as will happen in all section´s of our bailout for year´s to come.

The cost of the meters can be spread out over the lifetime of the meters. That is a simple accounting exercise. How do we pay for electricity meters?

There is also the massive workload for (currently unemployed) construction workers doing the installations. The nett cost will actually be quite low.

Sully wrote: »

Don't blame the current government for the IMF, blame the last. At least the current crowd are doing a better job. Nobody else is offering any alternative so we haven't much else to compare to.

The last Government was planning to borrow €50 Billion over three years to cover overspending. The new Government has increased this to €65 Billion, and pushed it out an extra year.

That is not "a better job" by any reasonable measure.

Kracken

besides the joy of paying for rates I have to look forward to the cost of having to change the way water comes into my house. the mains comes down the back of the house, if they put the meter out the front then i have to dig up the hall, kitchen and bathroom floors to put the new pipes through.