Ragdoll Kittens dublin?

thegame

Im looking to buy a ragdoll kitten or adopt one..anyone know where in dublin?

anniehoo

My friend and her husband bought a Ragdoll kitten from a reputable breeder in Wexford last year. Ill find out her name and get back to you. She was €800 to buy :eek: (i thought they were crazy but thats just me). Shes a beautiful little thing though but can never be left outside the house by herself alone.They walk her on a harness in the back garden. I would seriously doubt you'd ever find one to adopt tbh.

Themadhouse

www.sabcci.com
Go to breeders list.
There is poppy love in Cork. Dont know of Dublin breeders. And you will pay up to 1000 euro for a good quality, well bred ragdoll.

And yes they are are indoor only and you will sign a contract to that affect. A lot of grooming involved too.
They are very sweet cats tho!

serenacat

someone is giving them away on gumtree.ie but could be a scam.

anniehoo

serenacat wrote: »

someone is giving them away on gumtree.ie but could be a scam.

Without a shadow of a doubt a scam. Any chance you could post the link?

serenacat

<snip>

Zapperzy

serenacat wrote: »

<snip>

The first one is without a doubt a scam, what breeder advertises their kittens as good to the environment! :rolleyes:

Themadhouse

The first one most certainly is.
Second and third, same person, 2 different locations. However easily check by enquiring with the GCCFI if in fact a person of that name and either location is registered with them.
Although the neutering contract indicates a decent breeder, not that that means much. I would prefer neutering before homing.

cifzz

I was wondering if anyone could tell me why Ragdolls are so expensive in Ireland compared to the UK and rest of Europe?

I'm from Ireland but been living in the UK for the past 18months, during this time I acquired a beautiful tortie seal point Raggie. The price over here for a full pedigree Ragdoll ranges from £375 - £400 (€436 - €465) for a pet/show cat and £650 - £750 (€756 - €872) for a breeding queen (prices usually higher in London).

Before I got my Raggie I did a LOT of research over a number of months, looking at different breeders, their history with the GCCF etc before settling on my preferred breeder, i chose on experience rather than on price.

As I will be returning to Ireland in the near future I have been looking at Irish breeders for my next Raggie and I have to say I think that the prices are shocking. Pet kittens being sold for €800 - €1000!! I have failed to see the difference between what is being offered in Ireland compared to UK. In both countries you get the same things, registration papers, microchip, insurance, starter pack etc yet you're paying twice the amount for the exact same cat!

I realise the breed hasn't been in the country long but that doesn't give people the right to capitalise on that. I'm all for supporting Irish businesses and would consider paying €100 extra on the breed in Ireland instead of travelling to the UK to get the cat but paying €400 - €600 extra is a joke, I could get two pure bred in the UK for that price!

What worries me the most is what might happen to these kittens if they don't sell. €1,000 for a kitten is alot, especially with people being tight on cash at the moment. If a breeder has even 10 kittens a year I can't imagine they all sell at that price. Where do these babies end up and what happens if the owner is stuck with them into adulthood and can't spend enough time and dedication on their breeding queens and studs? With the laws changing on the 1st January regarding transporting animals between UK and Ireland it's going to be so much easier for breeders to travel across and pick up the same cat for a fraction of the price.

don't get me wrong i think the price i paid for my raggie was well worth it, with all the work, time and effort put into breeding and taking care of these babies and she's what I was expecting of the breed, but honestly I couldn't justify spending much more, let alone twice that for a pet cat, not even of breeding quality!

Does anyone have any insight as to why the price difference is so outstandingly different?

By the way, if you're looking to 'adopt' a raggie it will be difficult to get them 'free' as they're pedigree's. Even pet shelters usually command a higher adoption fee for pedigree cats. If you contact a breeder they may have older cats available for a cheaper rate. True breeders dedicated to their cats and breeds don't hold on to their cats after they reach retirement agewhich is usually only 3 - 4years old so that they can keep their time and energy on breeding.

Also be carefull when choosing a breeder. You'll find a lot of "cheap" kittens for sale advertised as "having no papers as not for breeding", be very wary here as pure bred cats that are not for breeding should always have papers, they are registered on the non-active register. If you want to go ahead and get a cat with no papers, ask to see the papers of the kittens parents. A ragdoll without papers are technically not allowed to be called Ragdolls.

And yes there are a lot of con's out there as it's a good money making business and Ragdolls are very popular breeds at the moment so shoddy breeders are trying to capitalise on that. I've even seen people selling moggies for €250 as they are half or quarter ragoll, don't believe these people they will con u for your money!!

ISDW

cifzz wrote: »

As I will be returning to Ireland in the near future I have been looking at Irish breeders for my next Raggie and I have to say I think that the prices are shocking. Pet kittens being sold for €800 - €1000!! I have failed to see the difference between what is being offered in Ireland compared to UK. In both countries you get the same things, registration papers, microchip, insurance, starter pack etc yet you're paying twice the amount for the exact same cat!



By the way, if you're looking to 'adopt' a raggie it will be difficult to get them 'free' as they're pedigree's. Even pet shelters usually command a higher adoption fee for pedigree cats. If you contact a breeder they may have older cats available for a cheaper rate. True breeders dedicated to their cats and breeds don't hold on to their cats after they reach retirement agewhich is usually only 3 - 4years old so that they can keep their time and energy on breeding.

I find that despicable, if that was someone breeding dogs, they'd be called a puppy farmer. The cat is only worth something to them while they're using it to breed, once its outlived its usefulness its moved on? What a lovely way to treat an animal. And yet you call them true breeders? I'd call them something else, but I'd get banned on here for it.

Themadhouse

Taking a glance at the British Ragdoll club I counted over 70 breeders compared to the 3 that are listed on the gccfi/sabcci site here. One seems to be relatively new as there is no prefix yet.
The difference in price comes down to the rarity of the breed her plus the expenses. New blood cost money to bring in, vets are more expensive. a scan for HCM here will set a breeder back 350 ish compared to under 100 pound in the uk. Tests for PKD here 250 euro
, 25 pound in the uk. if a breeder neuters (poppylove does for example) it can coat anything from 100-150 for a pediatric neutering.Travel abroad for stud use compared to staying in the country would be another expense. Cat food is cheaper, worm tabs are cheaper etc.

I think the prices mostly reflect the cost of things here. I realise there are breeders that take the piss but in general the price is only covering costs for the genuine breeder.

If you go to the UK to buy a kitten you have flight price and cost for bringing kitten back which last time I did it cost over 300 euro, you could go by boat which will cost about the same, you will prob have to get the cat neutered yourself 70 euro, there is an extra charge for 5 generation pedigree so you can register your imported kitten here. So you could probably add on an extra 400 euro ish on top of the 400 pound you have paid for the cat so really it doest work out that different price wise.

Themadhouse

Any breeder that I know rehome their ex breeding cats the only charge, if there is one,being the neutering cost. The requirements are the same for older cats and kittens ( indoor only etc). The reason why they are homed is because hormones are still flowing and keeping too many mammies or ex mammies in the same house can cause chaos! I have 2 here that go at logger heads at times despite both being neutered, add a few more on in a breeders home and war will happen. Most breeders will have a neuter or two though that they keep.
Its not that they are disposable. Better the cat have 2 or 3 litters, get neutered at 4 or 5 and maybe get a chance to live in a home with one other cat, in a quiet house with its own couch to sleep on. A breeder of any animal has to keep fresh blood and young blood, its part and parcel of breeding!

ISDW

Themadhouse wrote: »

Any breeder that I know rehome their ex breeding cats the only charge, if there is one,being the neutering cost. The requirements are the same for older cats and kittens ( indoor only etc). The reason why they are homed is because hormones are still flowing and keeping too many mammies or ex mammies in the same house can cause chaos! I have 2 here that go at logger heads at times despite both being neutered, add a few more on in a breeders home and war will happen. Most breeders will have a neuter or two though that they keep.
Its not that they are disposable. Better the cat have 2 or 3 litters, get neutered at 4 or 5 and maybe get a chance to live in a home with one other cat, in a quiet house with its own couch to sleep on. A breeder of any animal has to keep fresh blood and young blood, its part and parcel of breeding!

So thats all the cats are there for, breeding? As I said, if that was someone with dogs, they'd be called a puppy farmer, I really can't see the difference, whether there is a charge for them or not. They have passed their usefulness, get rid of them. They are a commodity, pure and simple.

Themadhouse

ISDW wrote: »

So thats all the cats are there for, breeding? As I said, if that was someone with dogs, they'd be called a puppy farmer, I really can't see the difference, whether there is a charge for them or not. They have passed their usefulness, get rid of them. They are a commodity, pure and simple.

ehm, i assume you missed the bit where i said ex breeding cats in the same envirnment with new breeding cats coming up is not ideal for anyone. What would you like breeders to do with the girls that are retiring?
a cat might be neutered at 2 for example as she hasnt mixed well in a multi cat environment so the breeder decides its best for her to go to a new home, one where she will be happier rather than hold onto her, make her ill with worry or stress. There are so many factors involved in rehoming adult cats... not they are past their sell by date, i've seen breeders cry because they had no choice in rehoming their beloved pet.
I think you see things in a different way to me as you have a breed rescue, well sled dog breeds. There isnt an abandonment issue of persian cats in ireland that warrants a breed rescue so I reckon if the people who breed need to rehome their adult cats at least they do that, they doint jsut dump them to make a problem for someone else!

cifzz

Retiring breeding cats is not my own idea it's just something I've come across when checking out breeders as seen on this breeder's website <snip>

I visited this woman's house when i was searching for my Raggie and puppy/kitten farm it is not. She's not the only breeder practising this and as you can see they're not being abandoned/put to sleep or worse, she looks to home these cats as she looks to home her kittens, to a loving family. I'm not a breeder I was just putting it there as a cheaper suggestion to someone who might not be able to afford a pure bred ragdoll but still want one as part of their family.

Re: Themadhouse, thanks for breaking it down for me, I can now see where the price difference comes from.

ISDW

Themadhouse wrote: »

ehm, i assume you missed the bit where i said ex breeding cats in the same envirnment with new breeding cats coming up is not ideal for anyone. What would you like breeders to do with the girls that are retiring?
a cat might be neutered at 2 for example as she hasnt mixed well in a multi cat environment so the breeder decides its best for her to go to a new home, one where she will be happier rather than hold onto her, make her ill with worry or stress. There are so many factors involved in rehoming adult cats... not they are past their sell by date, i've seen breeders cry because they had no choice in rehoming their beloved pet.
I think you see things in a different way to me as you have a breed rescue, well sled dog breeds. There isnt an abandonment issue of persian cats in ireland that warrants a breed rescue so I reckon if the people who breed need to rehome their adult cats at least they do that, they doint jsut dump them to make a problem for someone else!

Well how about not getting new breeding stock in? I think you are missing my point, they obviously only get the cats to breed, not as a companion, or a pet. That is what I have an issue with, whether I run a rescue or not.

Of course they have a choice in rehoming their beloved pet - don't bring more breeding cats in. They don't 'need' to rehome their adult cats, they are choosing to do so.

Your words are scarey, girls that are retiring - these are young cats retiring from being money making machines. So they are rehomed, so that more cats can be brought in to breed from, and make money. If these people were breeding for the love of the breed, surely they would keep their own pet cats, because they loved them, not pass them on to someone else to bring more in?

Its not about dumping animals, its about only seeing them as machines for breeding, thats what my issue is.

ISDW

cifzz wrote: »

Retiring breeding cats is not my own idea it's just something I've come across when checking out breeders as seen on this breeder's website <snip>

I visited this woman's house when i was searching for my Raggie and puppy/kitten farm it is not. She's not the only breeder practising this and as you can see they're not being abandoned/put to sleep or worse, she looks to home these cats as she looks to home her kittens, to a loving family. I'm not a breeder I was just putting it there as a cheaper suggestion to someone who might not be able to afford a pure bred ragdoll but still want one as part of their family.

Re: Themadhouse, thanks for breaking it down for me, I can now see where the price difference comes from.

Can you please explain to me then what a puppy/kitten farmer is.

Its obviously not someone who breeds, then rehomes cats who are no longer useful for breeding?

What else would you call that?

Shanao

Gonna have to agree with ISDW on this. The exact same thing in dogs would result in the breeder being called a backyard breeder etc, but cat breeders get away with it. How is that fair? I recently saw an ad for a persian cat that was being sold as the owners decided to keep his kitten instead to use as a stud and they wanted rid of him. I have four cats, two are pedigrees, and I wouldn't dream of breeding them for three years and then getting rid of them to make room for more breeding stock. They are pets first and foremost as far as I'm concerned, they're part of the family and not simply a possession.
And kitten farmers are appearing in the cat world, unregistered kittens turning up, crossbreeds turning up and being sold for hundreds.

I know someone who went over to England and bought a british shorthair queen who was 'retired' at 3 years old, but then sold so that she can be bred over here. Thankfully the woman who bought her decided to spay her instead, but she couldn't believe that the poor thing had been bred from twelve months old, twice a year until retired at 3 so her six litters were gotten out of the way. If anyone did this with dogs, the animal loving community would be in uproar. Like ISDW, i would like to know what the difference is.

EDIT- On the subject of breeders making sure their kittens/cats go to good homes, can someone explain to me why my moggie, who was dumped in our garden, is half siamese, and our foster kitten is half british shorthair?

Themadhouse

ISDW wrote: »

Well how about not getting new breeding stock in? I think you are missing my point, they obviously only get the cats to breed, not as a companion, or a pet. That is what I have an issue with, whether I run a rescue or not.

Of course they have a choice in rehoming their beloved pet - don't bring more breeding cats in. They don't 'need' to rehome their adult cats, they are choosing to do so.

Your words are scarey, girls that are retiring - these are young cats retiring from being money making machines. So they are rehomed, so that more cats can be brought in to breed from, and make money. If these people were breeding for the love of the breed, surely they would keep their own pet cats, because they loved them, not pass them on to someone else to bring more in?

Its not about dumping animals, its about only seeing them as machines for breeding, thats what my issue is.

But if you have 2 breeding girls you cant keep breeding them forever. You breed to continue a good line and by keeping a girl, her mother, her granny, her great granny breeding with limited boys you end up with a colony over interbred, unhappy cats. A breeder breeds for the love of the breed and to keep a health happy breed. Its about the joy of breeding for themselves and for the joy that others get frm their breed. The cats used for breeding are also their pets/companions and the friends of all the other cats that they share their home with. Some people dont want to get a kitten and would prefer an older cat so I see nothing wrong with a breeder providing that bit of hapiness for someone if they can. If you keep them all you become the cat hoarder, the people with with 20 + cats that are not happy or socialised. A breeder who does is correctly doesntt make money from it, it will cover costs if you are lucky, infact most of the time it doesnt even do that so the money making argument doesnt come into it.
A dog breeder the same, if thye keep breeding the 2 girls they have they run out of options and end up interbreeding and then what happens when the dog turns 8 and cant be bred from anymore. DO they neuter the dog and hold off on breeding for the next maybe 8 yrs until the dog passes and and then get new pups in to start the whole process again or do they breed to keep their line going and end end up with a housefull of dogs?

No matter if its a dog or a cat, if breeders dont make this hard decision to rehome some and use the next generation or bring in new blood after a while breeds become extinct... Unfortunately its a sad part of breeding, a part that i dont think any breeder likes or takes lightly.

Themadhouse

ISDW wrote: »

Can you please explain to me then what a puppy/kitten farmer is.

Its obviously not someone who breeds, then rehomes cats who are no longer useful for breeding?

What else would you call that?

Someone with an adundance of unneutered cats thats are over bred and under socialised. Doesnt bother with health checks, health scans, dna testing, has their own stud who is mated with whichever cat that just happens to be calling with no regard for interbreeding, feeds crap food, maybe gets kittens their first vax leaving the other one up to the new owner, doesnt have a registerd prefix and registered kittens, charges to make a profit. probably ahs far too many cats to be able to look after properly, probably has no idea of the health issues with keeping so many cats in the one environment.

Themadhouse

Shanao wrote: »

Gonna have to agree with ISDW on this. The exact same thing in dogs would result in the breeder being called a backyard breeder etc, but cat breeders get away with it. How is that fair? I recently saw an ad for a persian cat that was being sold as the owners decided to keep his kitten instead to use as a stud and they wanted rid of him. I have four cats, two are pedigrees, and I wouldn't dream of breeding them for three years and then getting rid of them to make room for more breeding stock. They are pets first and foremost as far as I'm concerned, they're part of the family and not simply a possession.
And kitten farmers are appearing in the cat world, unregistered kittens turning up, crossbreeds turning up and being sold for hundreds.

I know someone who went over to England and bought a british shorthair queen who was 'retired' at 3 years old, but then sold so that she can be bred over here. Thankfully the woman who bought her decided to spay her instead, but she couldn't believe that the poor thing had been bred from twelve months old, twice a year until retired at 3 so her six litters were gotten out of the way. If anyone did this with dogs, the animal loving community would be in uproar. Like ISDW, i would like to know what the difference is.

EDIT- On the subject of breeders making sure their kittens/cats go to good homes, can someone explain to me why my moggie, who was dumped in our garden, is half siamese, and our foster kitten is half british shorthair?

You honestly think that all decent dog breeders keep hold of all their boys and girls once they are neutered? Yeah they might keep some but not all. You will find that they will home their pets to family or friends and sometimes have them available for the people on the waiting list for an older dog.

With regard to the cross breeds yes you will get breeders that dont neuter before homing and you you also get owners that, despite signing a legal document, dont get their cats neutered and let them wander to get pregnant. Unfotunately it happens. Kittens should be neutered before being homed in my opinion.
And yes kitten farmers are appearing more and more now I have noticed that myself too. Very sad. I saw an add on done deal for a maine coon cross, anyone that knows maine coons will know their size. They are a natural breed that should not be cross bred. Its like mating a great dane to a yorkie.... It is sad seeing this appear but unfortunatley with a ressession people will do anything to make money and it will end up being as bad as the dog BYB.

ISDW

Themadhouse wrote: »

You honestly think that all decent dog breeders keep hold of all their boys and girls once they are neutered? Yeah they might keep some but not all. You will find that they will home their pets to family or friends and sometimes have them available for the people on the waiting list for an older dog.

Yes, that is what I, and some other people on here consider reputable breeders, breeding only for their own lines, not for profit and certainly not then getting rid of their breeding stock when they are too old to use. They are few and far between, which is why we have so many dogs being killed every day in pounds, pedigrees and crosses. I have the same issues with people doing it with dogs as I do with the people that you seem to be holding up as decent cat breeders. It would appear then that cats are no different, and so I wouldn't consider any breeder who does what you are saying to be a reputable breeder. They are treating their animal as a commodity, that surely is the definition of farming?

Delancey

Why are RagDolls unsuitable for being outdoors ?

aisher

From reading this thread I am curious what actually happens with breeders when they decide that their bitch is too old to be producing pups/kittens?

cifzz

ISDW wrote: »

Can you please explain to me then what a puppy/kitten farmer is.

Its obviously not someone who breeds, then rehomes cats who are no longer useful for breeding?

What else would you call that?

Yes

Puppy/Kitten Farmer

a "puppy/kitten" farmer is a person who breeds animals with the object of making as much money as possible while giving little regard to the actual welfare of the parents and offspring. Many of these so-called "breeders" derive several litters from a breeding bitch/queen a year without giving them the necessary time to recover from their previous litter.

often the bitches/queens are kept in outside enclosures/sheds and socialised with occasionally - preferring to 'let nature take its course' instead of taking extra care of precious expectant mothers. inbreeding is a common result and generally you will find that kittens/puppies inherit more of the negative genes of a breed ie: large dogs are prone to joint issues, a REAL breeder will try to breed dogs of good bone structure to ensure healthier puppies while a puppy farmer isn't bothered.

often when the dog is too old to have more puppies the parent dogs are either abandoned or worse (while real breeders CARE where they go and are not harmed). none of these puppies are well socialised and none are given innoculations because that takes time and money, and farmers are not interested in spending their money on the dogs, just makin money. A farmer doens't care who buys the animal, for what reasons its bought all they care about is money

Breeder

On the other hand a genuine breeder first off is registered with at least one if not more cat clubs - there are more in UK than Ireland. They put a lot of time, effort and care into their cats as they are first and foremost their PETS before a breeding queen. Their focus is keeping the breed going in the country, breeding the best standard.

Breeding cats start off as show cats who are loved upon and groomed regularly. although cats can come into heat from 4 months of age a breeder wouldn't dream of breeding their cat on it's first cycle and generally wait until it's at least a year old so that it is mature and strong enough. Also they will only be bred once every 12 months and have only 2 or 3 litters in a lifetime then be neutered/"retired". not all cats are cut out to be mothers and if a cat seems unsure what to do with their first litter a breeder will then retire them as they do not want their cat to do something it is not comfortable with. Even before the breeding process takes place, if you are bringing your cat to someone else for stud that person will want to see papers and also proof of innoculations especially regarding Feline Aids and leukaemia.

The breeding queens are indoor pets and from the breeders I have visited and contacted most share the same bed as their human companions. Expectant mothers are brought to the vet regularly to check their progress. When due date is close they are giving their own little section of a room in the house for where the babies will be born, special antibacterial vet bedding is laid down and replaced regularly to get rid of placenta, or unine after kittens are born. Expectant mothers are fed special food made especially for pregnant cats and often another type for when she is weaning. The kittens are kept in one room until they are big and strong enough to exlpore the house under human supervision.

Many cats actually always don't produce enough milk for all of their babies so a lot of breeders will hand feed them with a supplement milk every 2 hours, through night and day to ensure proper development of the baby. They are also handled and socialised on a regular basis to and have lots of kitty toys.

They will not home them before 13 weeks of age as first vaccination can only be done at 9 weeks and 2nd vaccination a couple of weeks later, they need to ensure the kitten doesn't have a reaction to the vaccinations as can often happen and need to ensure the baby is in full health before leaving to start its new life. many breeders will urge you to contact them regularly to update them on the cats development even when the kitten moves on. A lot will quiz you about your home life to make sure that you are suitable to take what is essentially one of their kids. Most will also do a home check too.

It may seems like a lot but its done to ensure healthy kittens going into this world, safe preservation of the breed standards and is reflected in their price.

Not all breeders rehome their retired pets and prefer to keep them for the rest of their lives. However quite a few "retired" cats can get a bit stressed or upset living in a house where it's not the centre of attention any more - it is only natural to dote more time on pregnant felines, not to say that a retired cat gets ignored but the cat will do better being rehomed as an only pet so to continue being loved upon. On the otherhand some older cats adopt a "grandmother" role and "babysit" some new kittens so mummy has time to groom and pee in peace for a minute! If a breeder is rehoming a retired cat they undertake the same process as they do their kitten, they actually seem more pedantic about home checks as the breeder will have a stronger bond with the older cat, know it's history, shared memories so they're more inclined to do home visits to make sure their beloved is well taken care of.

A retired cat will be homed already neutered. No true genuine breeder will just give out their cat without a thought to its living arrangements and would never allow them to continuing breeding.

the gccf has a lot of rules and imposes fines and bans on any breeder in breech of these rules.

and to answer another one of your questions, yes a cat breeder is interested in BREEDING their cats, thats why they're called breeders and not cat owners - like myself and any other cat owner without the intention of breeding just having their company and love

cifzz

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056295154

link of another thread here about farming,

here's something I found online

http://www.ispca.ie/news/view/ispca_exposes_reality_of_puppy_farming_in_ireland

and to make sure everyone is clear I am on the BREEDERS side. However, I am not a breeder and don't plan on being one either

cifzz

aisher wrote: »

From reading this thread I am curious what actually happens with breeders when they decide that their bitch is too old to be producing pups/kittens?

Real breeders either keep them until their last moment on earth, other rehome them to ensure they are loved and care for as the may have 2 - 3 active breeders and don't have enough room for all cats. I know this may seem unfair but its best for the retired cat.a breeder isn't going to stop breeding as it is their passion and calling in life but it's unrealistic to bring up a litter in an overcrowded house and unfair if they can't dedicate equal time and energy to all of their cats. They take great care in choosing who will adopt their retired cat and generally adopt a 30 mile radius rule so it's not living too far away.

as for the puppy mills I'm afraid I cannot answer that, I have read horrible articles in the past that didn't suggest a happy ending, most are just dumped somewher but bare in mind some mills can have up to 200 dogs/cats on a property and are sadly not too bothered about their outcome.

cifzz

Delancey wrote: »

Why are RagDolls unsuitable for being outdoors ?

Ragdolls are so-called for their docile nature. The reason they are so popular - apart from looking so cute is their friendly nature and need for companionship as some cats have a reputation for being too independent and not cuddly enough - not all cats though. Due to their nature they are not very "street wise" and are prone to being picked up by not so nice people looking to sell them/keep them or harm them. They also get on quite well with dogs and most ragdolls will approach them without a care only to find out too late that this doggy isn't Mr Niceguy. Also with the price you pay for them you wouldnt be letting them out and in my case my raggie is my baby, I would be too worried about leaving it unsupervised. Raggies do well on a harness and lead once used to it and although I'm not suggesting walking around the park with it (although go ahead if you want) it's a good way of bringing them out to explore the back garden without getting into trouble! Large enclosures are suitable too as long as they're not out too long and/or have a companion

ppink

cifzz- I apolgise I cannot read all your posts as they are just too long for me. The one thing i did see amongst your post was you referring to these cats as "Pets". i doubt most people would refer to them as pets when they are bred from, neutered and passed on to make room for the next breeding batch. how is that a pet?

Aisher-I have seen the same thing happen with dogs. In fact I inadvertently helped a friend of mine find a home for a bitch and only afterwards found out it was because their parents were finished breeding from her and had moved in a younger dog. They funnily enough "LOVED" the dog but never asked about her again!

cifzz

ppink wrote: »

cifzz- I apolgise I cannot read all your posts as they are just too long for me. The one thing i did see amongst your post was you referring to these cats as "Pets". i doubt most people would refer to them as pets when they are bred from, neutered and passed on to make room for the next breeding batch. how is that a pet?

That's what puppy farmers do. They are not genuine, qualified loving breeders. Take a moment to read what you are replying to and you will see

cifzz

ppink wrote: »

cifzz- I apolgise I cannot read all your posts as they are just too long for me. The one thing i did see amongst your post was you referring to these cats as "Pets". i doubt most people would refer to them as pets when they are bred from, neutered and passed on to make room for the next breeding batch. how is that a pet?

Aisher-I have seen the same thing happen with dogs. In fact I inadvertently helped a friend of mine find a home for a bitch and only afterwards found out it was because their parents were finished breeding from her and had moved in a younger dog. They funnily enough "LOVED" the dog but never asked about her again!

and to help you out here's a summary

Firstly you're right puppy/kitten farmers don't see their animals as pets, they see them as cash machines and breed wholesale to make as much cash as possible. They are illegal as they don't care for animals, they abuse them therefore the ISPCA as well as worldwide SPCA's are dedicated in closing them down.

Breeders are registered with the GCCFI and official cat clubs, they do it becuase they love the breed and want to keep the breed going well into future generations.

They don't always have kittens/pups available because they are in it for the animals and their health and well being comes first. They are very fussy as to who gets to have their babies because they want to ensure they are well cared for and know they understand that a puppy/kitten is for life

ISDW

cifzz wrote: »

and to help you out here's a summary

Firstly you're right puppy/kitten farmers don't see their animals as pets, they see them as cash machines and breed wholesale to make as much cash as possible. They are illegal as they don't care for animals, they abuse them therefore the ISPCA as well as worldwide SPCA's are dedicated in closing them down.

Breeders are registered with the GCCFI and official cat clubs, they do it becuase they love the breed and want to keep the breed going well into future generations.

They don't always have kittens/pups available because they are in it for the animals and their health and well being comes first. They are very fussy as to who gets to have their babies because they want to ensure they are well cared for and know they understand that a puppy/kitten is for life

Sorry, but they're not illegal unfortunately.

The breeders that you are describing sound like ethical, reputable breeders, as long as they keep hold of their breeding cats for their whole lives. However, someone who gets rid of their cats, no matter how it is couched in nice words like rehomed, is breeding purely for money, so they are farming the cats.

I don't see how the breeders mentioned in previous posts could be regarded as reputable, as I doubt very much that they would be willing to take any kittens back if the new owner couldn't keep hold of them, due to the stress etc of having so many cats in one house, as has been pointed out.

If you breed a companion animal, then you should be responsible for that animal for the rest of its life, and if you are unable to be, then you shouldn't breed in the first place.

Puppy farmers don't all keep their animals in huge big, dirty sheds, but it doesn't mean they're not a farmer.

Themadhouse

ISDW wrote: »

Sorry, but they're not illegal unfortunately.

The breeders that you are describing sound like ethical, reputable breeders, as long as they keep hold of their breeding cats for their whole lives. Even if it causes health issues for some of the cats?
However, someone who gets rid of their cats, no matter how it is couched in nice words like rehomed, is breeding purely for money, so they are farming the cats. Rehomed for no money and rehomed for the price of a kitten are very different.

I don't see how the breeders mentioned in previous posts could be regarded as reputable, as I doubt very much that they would be willing to take any kittens back if the new owner couldn't keep hold of them, due to the stress etc of having so many cats in one house, as has been pointed out.] Reputable breeders will have a clause in their contract stating they will take back any kitten/cat that they have bred, at any time or will offer advice in what to do.They wouldnt home a kitten to a house full of cats if they felt it wasnt in the best interest of the kitten.

If you breed a companion animal, then you should be responsible for that animal for the rest of its life, and if you are unable to be, then you shouldn't breed in the first place. Absolutely and sometimes this means making hard decisions for the health of the pet you have bred. reagrdless of parents or environment not all from a litter will be the same and have the same needs so its up to the breeder to deterine if a kitten ill be happier in a one cat household or a multicat household, this is obvious from early days. So the responsible thing to do is home a kitten accordingly. Likewise an adut cat that has been neutered, some change with what they are comfortable with and the responsibility comes down to the breeder to decide to either keep that cat in a situation that they are not happy in or find a home that they will be comfortable in.

Puppy farmers don't all keep their animals in huge big, dirty sheds, but it doesn't mean they're not a farmer.

I cant believe that animal lovers would prefer to see pets kept in a position that they are not happy in rather that see them rehomed...
Issues with highlighting the quote! sorry, my answers are within the quote.