how much to feed cats?

Hi guys, I have two cats I recently adopted and they are both now starting to venture outside but rarely go far from the house. So far we have been feeding them a half tin of food, twice daily, and as much dry food as they want. They're both pretty thin, though, they have to be wormed and deflead soon.

My parents feed their cat a third of a tin twice a day, but she devours rabbits and rats. Should my pair be getting a whole tin twice a day?

Once they go outside we plan to stop the dry food because the seagulls, magpies and rats will eat it. I'm just not sure how much to feed two neutered adult toms?

We feed twice a day so that when they are outside full time, they will come home morning and evening. Helps to stop them wandering too far.

Any advice welcome, thanks!

The Sweeper

I recommend introducing strips of cheap raw meat as well - chicken, beef, lamb. You may find it helps put weight and condition on them quite quickly and the chewing action will clean their teeth.

Given their feral history, try them each with a raw chicken neck. Hopefully they'll chomp their way through it. If they do, feed them a raw chicken neck each in the morning, a handful of kibble between them in the afternoon when you come home from work (call them in for it as a treat) and try a can of catfood between them at bedtime. To get a kibble measure, study the feeding guidelines on the packet and limit their daily food intake to no more than one half dry kibble.

(I feed my six cats two cups of dry kibble per day between them, plus one tin of catfood between them and the rest in raw meat strips. If I could get them to eat raw chicken necks, I'd drop the kibble to one cup per day between them and feed the rest as raw meat and raw chicken necks and tinned catfood.)

George is a pet cat now, I have started to pick him up and cuddle him, Blackie still just smells our hands and that is it. We can pet him while he's eating, but his face just says "Yeah, don't, thanks". I think they were both wormed when we got them but not sure about this. We have ordered in a suspension for their food to get rid of fleas, will worm them too.

They both came from a kennels where the rescue has kept them so they are very familiar with tinned and dry food. I do feed them bits of chicken and ham to get them to come to me (can't keep George away now, I have to shove him back into the room to stop him coming into the house at large with me!) but for Blackie I hand it out so he will come close.

I have no problem at all getting this pair to eat, just wondering how much I should be giving them? I never owned a neutered tom before. Loads of spayed females and unneutered toms, but never two neutered toms. My parents feed their spayed cat two thirds of tinned food a day, but she is full of rabbits and rats too. I want to feed my cats enough that they wont be hungry, but not so much that they get spoiled and fat.

I do give them meat when we have it, because they love it, but regularly once they are both outdoor cats, how much food do they need per day? Thanks for your advice!!

The Sweeper

Honestly, check the feeding guidelines on the packs and watch their weight yourself. Better quality kibble requires less volume. There'll be feeding guidlines on the tins too.

If you look down on your cat from above they should have a waist - they shouldn't have a silhouette like a canoe, with a pointed head and a pointed tail and an outward-rounded shape in between.

Depending on the weather they will eat more or less food. Some hot days they may go off their food entirely, on cold days they might not need more calories but they may expend fewer due to spending as much time as possible curled up asleep out of the cold.

Some cats also metabolise at a different rate. You're best to watch and never fall for the trick of yowling around your ankles for food - your cats aren't starving. Yowling for food is a well-calculated exercise based on the knowledge that the human will react to the yowling by supplying more food. If your cats are plump and glossy and healthy, and yowling outside mealtimes, count out six pieces of kibble in your hand and give them three apiece as a treat, but don't fall for it and dump a cupful into their bowl.

Whispered

The Sweeper wrote: »

You're best to watch and never fall for the trick of yowling around your ankles for food - your cats aren't starving. Yowling for food is a well-calculated exercise based on the knowledge that the human will react to the yowling by supplying more food. If your cats are plump and glossy and healthy, and yowling outside mealtimes, count out six pieces of kibble in your hand and give them three apiece as a treat, but don't fall for it and dump a cupful into their bowl.

One of my brats mewls until I fill his bowl, looks at it and stalks away. He just wants the food there, but doesn't eat it, after screaming the house down for ages :mad:

Muas Tenek

Whispered wrote: »

One of my brats mewls until I fill his bowl, looks at it and stalks away. He just wants the food there, but doesn't eat it, after screaming the house down for ages :mad:

He may be an older cat - this is quite common behaviour in cats over 10 years old. I find this site very helpful in understanding my cat (she is 19/92 according to the chart) http://www.purrfectcatbehavior.com/old_cat.html
To keep on topic OP Half a tin to one tin a day is perfect depending on the size of the cat. if he is long and slender a tin a day is ok, if he is short and round 1/2 a tin will do.

Hope this helps
Muas

cuppa

What size tins are you on about,and what's all this full on rabbits and rats talk.

The standard tin can, same size as a can of baked beans, and my mother's cat, Cat (Crown, but no one calls her Crown), eats so many baby rabbits she actually goes off her food. She is also the best little ratcatcher I ever met. Bet the pet gestapo is gonna be here in a minute to say cats shouldn't eat rabbits or rats!!

Muas Tenek

Muas Tenek wrote: »

He may be an older cat - this is quite common behaviour in cats over 10 years old. I find this site very helpful in understanding my cat (she is 19/92 according to the chart) http://www.purrfectcatbehavior.com/old_cat.html
To keep on topic OP Half a tin to one tin a day is perfect depending on the size of the cat. if he is long and slender a tin a day is ok, if he is short and round 1/2 a tin will do.

Hope this helps
Muas

Good advice here RE: the older cat. We had a 15 year old cat who would act hungry, then see her food, then act hungry again, we'd put out a different food, then act hungry again.... she had dementia though!

My two big toms are getting half a tin twice a day, and given their size, and now they have started to go outside, reckon should be doubled, and dry food cut out completely. It makes them come home at specific times so keeps them closer to the house.

anniehoo

My 2 get one cupful of Royal Canin (Calm or Male/Female nuetered) dry each every day and a slight top up in the evening if their bowls are empty. A few times a week they get tuna or tinned salmon mixed in.Thats it (thats even above the guidelines on the RC bag).I switched to Whiskas dry for about a month and their coats looked awful so went back.

Not keen on too much tinned stuff as the litter trays are a state afterwards and both drink plenty of water. Beanie was a hefty lad last year (5.5+kg) but hes just under 5kg now and is looking leaner (although i perferred him a bit chunkier ). He's getting out a lot more and is far more active too with Molly to keep him occupied during the day.

Im also now getting "presents" of baby shrew since last week :eek:

fatmammycat

I feed my lot one can a day of Whiskas between three of them with as much qood quality dry food as they like. However, lately I have been splitting a little packet/flat thingie of what I can only describe as snouts and entrails (from Aldi) between them first thing in the morning.
They LOVE this stuff, even though it's absolutely disgusting, and actually follow me around until I capitulate. Horrid stupid habit I have created. Honestly, I should have known better.:mad:

Redonblonde

Our cat can eat 2-3 packets of that foil packed wet food. He's neutered male, out all day running around and doesn't like dry no matter how good quality it may be. He seems a good weight, and I feed him until he doesn't want anymore, he seems fine that way.

Blueprint

I've got a six kilo tom cat and his mother at a puny 4.25 Kg and they get a 400g packet of Bozita (wet food) between them in the mornings and a 200g tin of Grau between them for dinner and a bit of high grade kibble if they get peckish in between. Both are pretty active and neither are at all fat, I think cats who have access to the outdoors and are active will regulate how much they eat themselves without over eating.

The tom cat is a hungry boy at times and loves his food, but if I ever give him too much he just leaves the remainder.

audreyp

I have a 5.7Kilo cat who is on a diet! Only allowed a small amount of biscuits a day. Before that I was letting him have as much dry food as he wants and whatever he manages to steal from my dinner plate :-D

He doesn't like wet food!

Sigma Force

Generally cats will eat a mouse sized portion of food a few times a day, all cats differ but start with a mouse sized portion and see how you go. They've only small stomachs so I've always felt cats are better off with a couple of smaller meals a day rather than say one big one.

Nothing wrong with them eating what they kill at least the critter won't of died in vain. But regular worming is important and a malt paste is handy for hair balls. Only worry would be the risk of being killed by a car if allowed to roam.

A good quality cat food helps with general health, many are filled with additives and some with sugar so the more natural the diet the better.
Some cats will over eat and become lazy whether they are indoors or outdoors so if you find a particular cat is getting too fat just cut down on the food a bit and get the cat moving around using toys, cat trees etc.
In time you'll find a healthy balance.

portgirl123

i have 2 cats and can say they cost me more a week to feed than my 4 dogs. its unbelievable the amount that they will eat and would eat more if i let them. both are in good shape, if i eat as much as they do i would be way over weight

planetX

Based on my cats - they need to eat 2 mice a day plus a nibble at dry food.
Keep up the worming though, I've had to write on a calender to make sure it's every 3 months. I was one month late once and starting finding tapeworm eggs...:eek:

Redonblonde

Eh, could be worse, our cat vomited onto our carpet, and the two times this had happened before, it was just hair...this was worms, like spaghetti. We had wormed him 3 months before too! I now put any dead animals he brings us in the bin, as I heard the worms are carried in the fleas on birds and rats etc, so when they are ingested, kitty gets them. Yuck.

anniehoo

Redonblonde wrote: »

I heard the worms are carried in the fleas on birds and rats etc, so when they are ingested, kitty gets them. Yuck.

Correct! Thats why if you have an outdoor cat who hunts its vital you keep up with your worming routine every 3mths or so!

Thanks everyone, I have upped their food to one and a half tins of meat a day, and they have dry food during the night. Sometimes they act starving, other times they get huffy that the dry food isn't tinned stuff when they go to check it out. They're getting spoiled. They can have more tinned food when the dry food is stopped, or if they start to put on weight, but at the moment they're a a healthy weight, the younger one maybe needs a bit of beefing up. The cat food recommends "One tin twice per day per adult cat"!!! This is how my aunt's cat got too big for his catflap. Owned some hefty adult tomcats in the past and no cat needed that much feed!

The Sweeper

Right, time to get really technical.

An adult cat, of reasonable activity, not pregnant and not lactating, needs a maintenance calorie intake of approximately 30 calories per either 1lb or about 1/2 kg of their bodyweight per day.

So in other words, a 5kg cat needs about 300 calories a day.

Wet foods, dry foods and raw foods all have different calorie counts. It's actually quite difficult to get a straight answer on the calorie content of petfood. It's easier on dry food than on wet - and one can only assume that's because of the range of products that go into petfood. It is indeed the snouts and tails and hooves that go in there - and whatever's in ample supply is what gets used.

I sat down one day and worked out the calorie content of the royal canin dry I feed my cats, and then calculated the calorie content of the raw meat I feed them - casserole and chuck steak in chunks, lamb strips, kangaroo. It was easy to run some sums based on their weight and calculate what volume of food they needed a day. It does change with the weather though - and dry food is the most dangerous because royal canin's is so palatable they'll eat it every time it's put out, whether or not they're really hungry.

anniehoo

I forget where you live sometimes, until you come out with something like this...

The Sweeper wrote: »

casserole and chuck steak in chunks, lamb strips, kangaroo.

Malari

The Sweeper wrote: »

Right, time to get really technical.

An adult cat, of reasonable activity, not pregnant and not lactating, needs a maintenance calorie intake of approximately 30 calories per either 1lb or about 1/2 kg of their bodyweight per day.

So in other words, a 5kg cat needs about 300 calories a day.

Wet foods, dry foods and raw foods all have different calorie counts. It's actually quite difficult to get a straight answer on the calorie content of petfood. It's easier on dry food than on wet - and one can only assume that's because of the range of products that go into petfood. It is indeed the snouts and tails and hooves that go in there - and whatever's in ample supply is what gets used.

I sat down one day and worked out the calorie content of the royal canin dry I feed my cats, and then calculated the calorie content of the raw meat I feed them - casserole and chuck steak in chunks, lamb strips, kangaroo. It was easy to run some sums based on their weight and calculate what volume of food they needed a day. It does change with the weather though - and dry food is the most dangerous because royal canin's is so palatable they'll eat it every time it's put out, whether or not they're really hungry.

Yes, I have this problem with my monster cat.

Royal Cocaine. He's addicted to the stuff. He's a big cat - when he was smaller he had HUGE back legs and with his long tail he resembled a kangaroo sitting down . He gets the maximum recommended ration but I'm afraid he's actually putting on weight, because I don't know if he eats till he's full or eats becauase he can't get enough of it.

I must work out the calorie count.

The Sweeper

anniehoo wrote: »

I forget where you live sometimes, until you come out with something like this...

Hehehehehe - my cats love their kangaroo meat. To give you an idea the closest thing I could compare it to is venison. It's dark red, gamey, smells strong. It's very low in fat so I wouldn't feed it exclusively, but as with most muscle meats it's high in taurine. I buy the farmed stuff for human consumption (roo is available from some pretty dubious sources).

As a guide - and this is based on what the internet tells me the calories in food are:

100g raw chicken breast, no skin: 115 calories
100g raw chicken thigh, no skin: 125 calories
100g beef chuck (fatty cut): 345 calories
100g raw lean leg/shoulder lamb chunks: 185 calories

My 5kg tabby needs around 300 calories a day. Therefore I can feed him, for instance, about 1/4 of a cup (30g or so) of Royal Canin Sensible 33 (which will be half his calories), and 150 calories worth of which of the above meats I've managed to buy on special.

Eating fat is quite good for cats - they don't process it the same way we do, so basically you can give your cat meat with fat and skin on even if they're overweight, so long as you count the calories from that fat within their allowance.

If you're going to go proper raw for cats, you need to work out:

• Their daily calorie requirement based on their ideal weight (you don't weigh them now and feed to that weight, you weigh them, then if they need to lose 500g or a kilo or put on 500g or a kilo, you calculate calories based on their ideal weight).
• How much of each meat you'd need to meet that calorie requirement.
• Then apply the 80-10-10 split: a raw diet should be 80% muscle meat (heart is included as a muscle meat), 10% bone and 10% organs (kidneys, lungs, brains, tripes, liver). Of the 10% organ meat, liver should make up no more than half.
• Aim to achieve the 80-10-10 split over time - e.g. you can feed bone every other day in the form of a chicken neck or a chicken wing, and feed liver once or twice a week, and the rest of the time feed strips and chunks of raw meat.

I would absolutely and categorically feed my cats only raw food if I could get them to eat bone, but only one of them will eat it, and another refuses point blank to eat liver. I could transition them over time, but I don't have the time to focus on it at the moment.

My dog eats raw quite happily - just this morning he had a lamb's heart, a few chicken necks and a chunk of lambs liver in his bowl, all raw - and he'll eat all of it.

My cats are now getting a tin and a half to share, plus dry food which they snack on. They are now fully outdoor cats, they love it. Tonight they both were gone for about two hours each, but they came back, so I'm happy that they are ready to be outside.

One tin per cat twice a day is a bit much! My cats even left some tinned food (they live for tinned food, that's all they want 24/7) today, so maybe I should cut it back a bit, or feed more often. My partner works from home, it'd be no problem to him to feed the cats three times a day.

As long as they are getting enough to eat, that's great, but I think the big tom from down the road is eating their food. Blackie fights with him every evening, which is great really, cause it shows that Blackie thinks the garden is his. I do go out and hiss at them, the tom legs it, Blackie stays.

They are getting on great, my "wild, outdoor cats".