Rant about "fake" interviews

mm_surf

Apologies for this, its going to be a rant - but may serve as a warning to people job-hunting out there as to the increasing prevalence of this practice.

There are often cases where a job has been "earmarked" for someone. Fair enough - a company can hire whomsoever they like for whatever position they like. But to date, on three occaisions I have had my time utterly wasted by HR conducting interviews for the sake of it.

Let me explain.

Recently I had an interview. The position I went for is in a niche industry. In fact, there are precisely two sites in the country where this activity is carried out. I had previsouly worked in this role in the competitor site, in the advertised role, for over two years. The competitor to this date has not replaced me. I did a very successful job - I left because I was looking for experience in other industries also.

So there are precisely two people in the country who have performed this function in this industry. Me and the person vacating the current position. No surprise that I get called for interview (through an very competent agency, good communication and the agent himself is a gent).

So I arrive on time, after driving 150 miles to get there. They are running late. That's no problem, I can be patient. What's a few minutes after that sort of drive? Go through my notes, CV & job spec.

Guy in before me comes out, led by the HR person. No surprise there, who else would be escorting them?

The HR person then asks "Can I get Joe Bloggs for you now?" Joe Bloggs is the Company CEO. (I know this because I've done my homework). JB comes down, all friendly, chatty, leads the previous interviewee back into the office "To meet a few people".

Fair enough. People know people. No skin off my nose - I'd damn good at what I do, well experienced, and more importantly - I've got the actual role experience -the CEO's buddy does not.

I do my interview. I do it very well, asking the right questions, get on well with both interviewers - HR & Operations Manager. I have what they are looking for - I was able to satisfy all of their queries - abilities, previous performance, acheivements, plans for expanding the role, etc. Discuss when I should hear from them, etc.

Head back the 150 miles home, happy with my performance. Wait to hear feedback from the recruiter. Call recruiter the next day to give him my feedback, let him know about the guy before me.

Intial feedback is good. The recruiter had a few people in for the role - he said I was certainly the head of the bunch (the specific experience and my general experience is a no-brainer). Didn't know initially who would be called back, but said they had been very impressed with a few candidates. Was sure that I would be one of those called back - would be in touch later in the week when he got actual word. Note the CEO's buddy wasn't one of those that the recruiter sent in to be interviewed.

So he calls me yesterday. No second interview. My eyebrows raise at this. "Not enough relevant experience" was feedback from HR. Recruiter doesn't understand it - only one of the people he sent was called back - and one of the weaker people he had sent.

I told him what I suspected - that the company had wasted my time, and most likely his.

If the feedback had been honest, I wouldn't have minded. Different people fit diffferent work cultures and that would have been a perfectly reasonable reason to turn me down (for example).

But the whitewash, bull excuse of "not enough relevant experience" really peed me off. The role called for 2-3 years experience. I have 10 with blue chip companies, 2 years with this company's only competitor, and the only person in the entire country with the exact role experience! All of this in black & white on my CV.

So they wasted my time. Of course I suspect that the CEO's buddy will get the job. I sympathised with the recruiter that his time may have been wasted too - no fees for him if he doesn't fill the role. Bu twe'll see - he's a good guy and obviously he's keen to place me somewhere - I am very good at what I do, and have fantastic experience & qualifications.

But this is the third time in the last 12 months that this has happened. Once, 40 miles away (person in before me was personaly known to all the staff passing), and once 100 miles away I was interviewed by an obviously bored HR perosn on her own (a huge no-no in HR - I could have claimed anything had happened in there)

So be aware job hunters, that it can happen.

And a word to HR people who are thinking, or practising the above:
Do us all a favour and waste local candidates' time & petrol money rather than those of us who travel long distances, thanks.

Or better yet, just directly hire the person you intend to anyway.

I was of a mind to bill the company for time & milage, but this is such a small country, it'd feel good - but be stupid. (and hence the certain vagueness to my rant)

Thanks for listening and good luck out there all you job hunters!

Nolanger

Think that's bad? Know a guy who was called for an interview for a job he didn't apply for. So he went along anyway and it was in an empty top floor room in South William Street. The interviewer kept asking him personal questions. Then she said she knew his sister! When he asked which one she didn't know their names. On the way down the stairs there was a guy standing there staring at him. Never heard back from the interview. Told him it was probably the guards investigating him or something similar?

omen80

I've had a similar experience myself recently. It's very annoying when you have to fill out an application form, go to an interview, get your hopes up etc etc... when the organisation already have their candidate picked.
I know this for a fact because I just happened to know the person who was offered the job, and they didn't even do an interview.

Arciphel

OP is it possible they thought you were overly cocky or had excessive pay demands

katiebelle

This happens all the time. Its not something new. I returned to work for a company here in Ireland that I had worked for before I left for the UK.
When I knew I was coming back I rang and asked my old company were they recruiting. I was told I would get a call back from HR. I did about 20 mins later with my start date. No interview no nothing. I just turned up on the date did a bit of refresher training and was back working within a short time. I understood that they actually had advertised the job and had interviewed but to be honest I have no idea if they interviewed before or after they gave me my job back.

I think they are legally obliged to advertise the positions both inside and outside of the company but I have seen many instances of in house jobs going to people without even an interview. I have seen this in many companies.

tsoparno

this is a regular practise amoung the town/county councils with years.if you where to step into a town hall go through all the employee's you would probably find a 90% of staff would have a link to somebody to get them the job.
i had 3 council interview's over the last few years didn't bother turning up for the 3rd one, later found out the guy who got the job was rang by his sister in law(a local town councillor) on the last day for applications to be handed in to get over to town hall pronto with the form.
low and behold he gets the job.
canvassing will disqualify MY ARSE

Oh_Noes

Really just sounds like you're a little overly confident and inventing a conspiracy to nurse a bruised ego.

Hard luck on not getting the job and all but don't take it so personally.

Delancey

katiebelle wrote: »

I think they are legally obliged to advertise the positions both inside and outside of the company but I have seen many instances of in house jobs going to people without even an interview. I have seen this in many companies.

Private businesses are under no legal obligation to advertise internally or externally for any positions - they can select staff by drawing straws if they wish. Once they don't use factors like sex , race , religion , sexual orientation , etc , then they can pretty much use any hiring process they see fit.

starlit

Its a ridiculous practice if you ask me. Inviting people for interview is part of the law of employment and companies have to go through the motions but even at that, if they comply with that they still can conduct a practice that is not really fair. If they have a candidate already picked out before an interview that is getting candidates hopes up. If HR let on ya they are a possible candidate to be called for a second interview that's bull might be procedure but still no way to treat someone like that. If they were going to hire someone they do so on the spot or at least wait until after interviews. Fair enough short list but at least give other candidates a chance.

The practice might seem ok for candidates who don't have to travel far but for those who do like me, then if I really thought HR would waste my time and think I could be wasting theirs or at least check for sure its the job I'd want and i'm a candidate they would like to hire then I would request a telephone interview before doing a face to face interview. I think that would be more fair than having to travel for long distances to an interview without any chance of being short listed or getting a job is madness! Its a pointless exercise if there is more than one potential candidate who be fit for a particular role whether its skills/experience. I suppose what fits the organisation and will be a profit to them and be cost effective. Seriously if they are saying someone who has not enough work experience when they have loads and years behind them then well that's takes the pits really. Its not very fair.

Why do HR talk so much bull like 'we will get back to you if you are short listed for an interview' 'unfortunately you are not successful we will keep your CV on file for any suitable vacancies but good luck with your job hunt' heard all that before time and time again and I'm getting sick of it. If they can't be honest and say it like it is rather than putting the wool over our eyes then why should us candidates be! Its like a sales/marketing ploy. Just crazy. What is the labour force coming too. No wonder so many of us my age have left Ireland. We can't trust people who have the power to hire us!

I fully agree with you OP!

Delancey

I suspect that in some situations HR dept.'s run elaborate competitions and hold lots of intervews for few/no jobs for the purpose of appearing to be busy and thus ' justifying ' their existence.

mm_surf

Arciphel wrote: »

OP is it possible they thought you were overly cocky or had excessive pay demands

Doubt it, I tone down the confidence enough and let my acheivements "do the talking", if you like. I certainly didn't approach the interview with any "I'm entitled to this" type head on me. I have to deal with people directly & have to win them over in my line of work - cocky / arrogant doesn't cut my ice in my field.

Like I said, if the feedback had been "didn't fit our culture / working style", that would have been fine and dandy.

No pay discussed - but they pay well for the position - certainly no demands from my side until a job is offered anyway.

M.

mm_surf

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Really just sounds like you're a little overly confident and inventing a conspiracy to nurse a bruised ego.

I've been turned down for plenty of jobs, my ego is like leather at this stage!
I would have thought it paranoid if I hadn't got the feedback that I got - it really was a load of bollix. If the only person who's done the job hasn't the right experience, who does?

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Hard luck on not getting the job and all but don't take it so personally.

Thanks! Next interview is Tuesday! Fingers crossed!

mm_surf

tsoparno wrote: »

this is a regular practise amoung the town/county councils with years.if you where to step into a town hall go through all the employee's you would probably find a 90% of staff would have a link to somebody to get them the job.
i had 3 council interview's over the last few years didn't bother turning up for the 3rd one, later found out the guy who got the job was rang by his sister in law(a local town councillor) on the last day for applications to be handed in to get over to town hall pronto with the form.
low and behold he gets the job.
canvassing will disqualify MY ARSE

Had this a lot with my first job hunt after getting my qualifications - county councils at the like. Same people at all the interviews - none of us ever got the job!

And I recently went for a council post in Co. Down. Really twigged that I had been overly hopeful when I got the letter of rejection. Same for Council jobs int eh north as the south. Gave good feedback though - they did really follow up on that aspect of it - have to give them credit for that.

All you can do though is keep plugging away.

Arciphel

Sounds very strange then. Have you requested the interview notes, you are entitled to these.

angelfire9

I came across a Local Authority job online when i was looking for something else so naturally I applied
I have the experience, I have the qualifications, but I also have this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that the job has already been filled and they are just going through the motions

It's completely disheartening to realise that so many jobs these days are on a not what you know but who you know basis....

eco2live

Sometimes employers just take the cheaper option. If they feel the other candidate is clever and will fit the organisation then they will give it a try.

Its very short sighted as good employees are assets to a company and generate revenue. Bad or inexperienced employees just end up being a cost (for a while anyway).

One of the biggest factors in interviews is if you like the person. I have conducted many interviews and if you don't like someone it is natural to look for reasons not to hire them as you feel they wont fit in.

Confidence, competence and humbleness is the way to go. (not suggesting that the op is not by the way)

mm_surf

Arciphel wrote: »

Sounds very strange then. Have you requested the interview notes, you are entitled to these.

They didn't take many notes, just annotations on a copy of my CV.

It's something I could do, but won't. It would just seem petty, and Ireland is waaaaaaaaaay to small a country to leave anything other than a good impression.

So they didn't want me for the position, ok. But to come across after the fact as some whiny sod who through his toys out of the pram afterwards, well that would be unprofessional in my view.

Sucks though!

mm_surf

eco2live wrote: »

One of the biggest factors in interviews is if you like the person. I have conducted many interviews and if you don't like someone it is natural to look for reasons not to hire them as you feel they wont fit in.

Agreed. You can bring a suitable candidate up to speed, if they fit in and get on well with the existing culture. Like I said, theat would have been a perfectly valid reason not to hire me (but obviously wasn't the reason)

One of the most competent people I've every worked with had qualifications out the yazoo, and was technically brilliant.

Had all the tact of Benny Hill though. He works best on his own would be the most polite way of putting it :P

Mrs OBumble

doovdela wrote: »

Inviting people for interview is part of the law of employment ...

I'm not overly familiar with the specifics of Irish employment law.

But I'd be very surprised if it dicates the precise selection tools (interview vs CV-shortlisting vs aptitude testing vs random selection, etc) need to be used.

Also, private companies are under no obligation to be fair. There are certain things they cannot discriminate based on, but after that they can hire who they damn well please.

OP, I do feel for you, what happened sucks. Almost as much as what was happening to people back in late 2008 and early 2009, when companies had no work on but didn't want to admit it - I've had friends put through three in-depth interviews to be told "oh, the position was cancelled" - we're pretty sure it never existed, the interviews were just to keep the staff seeming busy.

But you're experienced enough to know that interview feedback is rarely honest unless someone has a glaring weakness.

If it helps pretend that the feedback was "too experienced, he won't stay in the job".

fat__tony

Nepotism and croynism is alive and well in Ireland still I see.

Pathetic.

seraphimvc

i completely understand OP's rant. i still dont understand why didnt i get the job that i did a smooth interview for(took me 1.5hour, did a presentation, the managers are asking for my reference so they can call them etc). sometimes i wish there is something you can do to overcome this obstacle but nothing matters if the hiring person says no. i hope these people get their karma one day.

Dymo

Some employers just don't give a dam about interviewee's. I had 2 interviews and then a presentation for a job which I put a lot of time into. For each interview and presentation I lost a day of my time between traveling and preparation. I know I was down to the last 3 and then nothing from the company. I waited 2 weeks and no correspondence so I emailed the head of the department who was also the interviewer just looking for closure on the matter, I hate hanging around, and a couple of days later I got a phone call from the company saying I was unsuccessful and the position was given to an internal candidate.

I felt like a I was just part of a process to appease the boss but the internal candidate was always going to get the job.

Delancey

Personaly I am deeply suspicious of those recruitment processes where a '' presentation '' is involved - you spend hours researching what is in effect a free piece of consultancy work for the possible ' employer '.
A friend of mine refused to do presentations unless he was paid for them - and he got a job in the end

starlit

I suppose if you can get any kind of decent feedback from the interview it might be worth looking into that if they will give you feedback that is. If they don't then well it says something about them. If they at least give feedback then maybe it will help for other interviews. Then again if the feedback isn't up to scratch then I would be concerned and probe further but if they aren't willing they aren't worth working for.

Sala

This happens in the public sector all the time. Because they are public service etc they have very strict rules about jobs being advertised, how long to stay up for etc. With all the fixed term contracts expiring it mean the person doing the job already (sometimes for the last 3-4 years) has to reapply and re-interview with everyone else. Then, lo and behold, they are back in the job a week or two later. While I agree that there needs to be fairness, and everyone should be able to apply for the jobs, I always feel sorry for the people arriving in, suited and booted, getting their hopes up (and in some cases taking probably taking annual leave to attend) and they have no idea the job is practically filled already

kippy

While I totally disagree with the actions outlined above - putting a lot of time, effort and cost on the people called for interview when the job appears to have been nailed on for someone else, I can totally appreciate the reasoning that some jobs are not given based whole on interview CV - I believe the OP realises this as well and his point really was the complete waste of time the whole exercise was.
Private organisations can hire who they wish and how they wish, once within employment legislation. Public organisations have a lot more paperwork to do to hire people and must to so in a very structured way.

kayos

Delancey wrote: »

Personaly I am deeply suspicious of those recruitment processes where a '' presentation '' is involved - you spend hours researching what is in effect a free piece of consultancy work for the possible ' employer '.
A friend of mine refused to do presentations unless he was paid for them - and he got a job in the end

A friend of mine worked in a place that did exactly that. The presentation was on things they actually needed and they just got interviewee's to come up with the solutions/plans etc.

Delancey

A friend was asked to prepare a 2 hour presentation - he told them where to shove it.

JustAThought

Shocking stuff. Increasingly visible.

I ve worked for a company where almost everybody employed in the past 2 years is an "in" employee's unqualified and non specialised son/ daughter; in tech based company.Everyones work and stress levels are affected by this as we all have to cover for them nor knowing basics and qork latr and longer to cover fir their work as well. As they dont have the basics its impossible to see how ita supposed ro inprove beyond basic level; jobs required specialised tech skillsand 3 + yes experience.
Worse, I've sat and" reassured " candidates that have travelled as far as Mayo and Donegal for an interview knowing that the "Managers" cousin us already in Dublin looking to rent an apartment cos they know they have the job even thou the interviews arnt over yet.
Not in any way competent ir properly skilled for the role. Not capable of performing by themselves . No proper qualifications fir a specialised role where the other candidates have degrees and years of experience.
Disgusting.
And the choice part; these are state subsidised jobs.and we all know it's going on. And FAS (F* All Service) actually sit on the panel and are totally oblivious.
U N BELiEVABLE