Census 2011 - very worrying

nice_guy80

It is clear from the 2011 Census preliminary data that thousands of people are still moving here from all over the EU

http://examiner.ie/ireland/tens-of-thousands-still-moving-here-from-abroad-159621.html

Why?

I believe it is mainly to do with out very generous welfare system

the weekly payment is too much
the rate is not reduced after 6 months - no incentive to work
if you're on the dole for 12 months then you should only get half the rate, until you go and get a job. there are jobs out there, just a lot of people don't want to work
if you're not willing to work, then stop all payments

you get help paying your rent - people actually get more than they pay in rents. the rental market is being propped up by the state.
these landlords should be paid direct, not through the tenant!

if you have a child just live seperate to your partner and you get free housing! and a special single mother payment! ridiculous

disability? then come on over and we'll give you a special payment for that.

then you have clothing allowance. books allowance.
people moving to Ireland are getting a free ride!!

I live with a Polish fella and Slovenian girl, so I know well how they are all milking the system here.
And the amount of stuff going on in the black economy with them is unreal. (would never have believed it until I talked to the polish lad in the house)

Green diesel
Cigarettes
EU Driving Licences
Buying and selling cars
pirate DVDs

Ste.phen

Well, this is likely to be productive...

Did the census break down our newly arrived brethren by source of income?
If not, you're just guessing based on your own assumptions, which isn't terribly useful.

nice_guy80

They're hardly coming here for the job prospects???

philologos

Yes OP, and tens of thousands are probably leaving too.

belacqua_

I thought this thread was going to be about 'Zuzanna' breaking into the top 100 girls' names. Close enough. And what's with all the diminutives? 'Alfie'! FFS

Nijmegen

Sensationalist crap, for the most part. Take a look at the below - the numbers of foreigners in employment drops massively, but the number of those on unemployment doesn't increase dramatically. In other words, they're leaving.



There is a skew in those figures because the last census was done in 2006. So for 2006, 07 and 08 there was people coming in, and then we've had the turnaround this year. Usual lack of journalistic rigour in dissecting the numbers.

Zubeneschamali

Goddamn immigrants coming here and stealing our Polish women!

RandomName2

Nijmegen wrote: »

Sensationalist crap, for the most part. Take a look at the below - the numbers of foreigners in employment drops massively, but the number of those on unemployment doesn't increase dramatically. In other words, they're leaving.



There is a skew in those figures because the last census was done in 2006. So for 2006, 07 and 08 there was people coming in, and then we've had the turnaround this year. Usual lack of journalistic rigour in dissecting the numbers.

Have to add that that of course doesn't count illegals (although the vast majority of immigrants here are from the EU and thus legal)

Also, more to the point, parent allowances are paid to EU immigrants even if they have emigrated back to their home country. Presumably the unemployed statistic of the above graph is that of non-nationals on the live register and not specifically those who are not in employment (although the prospect of living without work or welfare would be bleak)

In terms of demographics 25% of births in the Rotunda in the last year have been of non-nationals.

nesf

RandomName2 wrote: »

In terms of demographics 25% of births in the Rotunda in the last year have been of non-nationals.

Well, when in doubt, breed them out!

later12

RandomName2 wrote: »

In terms of demographics 25% of births in the Rotunda in the last year have been of non-nationals.

Of course, the distribution of non-Irish nationals around the inner city needs to be taken in to account. It would be slightly absurd to suggest that the above situation is replicated often - or possibly anywhere else in the Republic.

If I open a pretzel bakery on Moore Street, and most of my customers are non-Irish pretzel consumers, it does not say anything reliable about the nationality profile of pretzel eaters on a broader scale.

Nijmegen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Have to add that that of course doesn't count illegals (although the vast majority of immigrants here are from the EU and thus legal)

Also, more to the point, parent allowances are paid to EU immigrants even if they have emigrated back to their home country. Presumably the unemployed statistic of the above graph is that of non-nationals on the live register and not specifically those who are not in employment (although the prospect of living without work or welfare would be bleak)

In terms of demographics 25% of births in the Rotunda in the last year have been of non-nationals.

As later10 has pointed out, that is not indicative of the total number of foreign nationals in Ireland.

Illegals are not, to my knowledge, a major problem in Ireland. If there is evidence to counter this claim I would like to see it, but thusfar I have not seen any evidence of same.

The total number of foreign nationals on the live register - which is those claiming benefits not just unemployed - is less than 79,000.

The vast majority are from the EU15-27 representing 42,013 with the UK making up the next largest group 18,648. 'Others' represent 14,431. In the year to June 2011 the number of non nationals increased by the whopping figure of 76.

Work permits issued meanwhile dropped 19% in 2010 to 7,786 with a total of 18,987 issued.

Also, more to the point, parent allowances are paid to EU immigrants even if they have emigrated back to their home country. Presumably the unemployed statistic of the above graph is that of non-nationals on the live register and not specifically those who are not in employment (although the prospect of living without work or welfare would be bleak)

It doesn't count Irish homeless either. What of it?

I think all the statistics point to a distinct lack of evidence that Johnny Foreigner is takin er jibs or claimin ur dole.

alex73

Ste.phen wrote: »

Well, this is likely to be productive...

Did the census break down our newly arrived brethren by source of income?
If not, you're just guessing based on your own assumptions, which isn't terribly useful.

I have lots of polish friends who have found work over the last 2 years. Irish turn up their noses at the basic pay jobs. Time to cut the dole.

djpbarry

nice_guy80 wrote: »

people moving to Ireland are getting a free ride!!

Are they? Sounds good – where do I apply? Can you post a link?

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I live with a Polish fella and Slovenian girl, so I know well how they are all milking the system here.
And the amount of stuff going on in the black economy with them is unreal.

And I live with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

OP, I'll tell you what's worrying about the census - how people such as yourself take a valuable analytical tool and turn it into cheap tabloid fodder.

efb

At least they filled out their census forms.

CiaranMT

I go to AH for ill-conceived ramblings on other EU nationals and their presence here.

Benny_Cake

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I live with a Polish fella and Slovenian girl, so I know well how they are all milking the system here.
And the amount of stuff going on in the black economy with them is unreal. (would never have believed it until I talked to the polish lad in the house)

Green diesel
Cigarettes
EU Driving Licences
Buying and selling cars
pirate DVDs

Got to commend you OP,you've managed to fit every cliche ever uttered by a taxi driver into one post there. Aren't your housemates lucky to have you?

Bagenal

alex73 wrote: »

I have lots of polish friends who have found work over the last 2 years. Irish turn up their noses at the basic pay jobs. Time to cut the dole.

What pay scale are you on? Theres lots of talk everywhere about cutting pay, dole etc, how come no one is talking about cutting the cost of living pro rata with income cuts? Hands up those that would work for the minimum wage, minus income tax, prsi etc, then minus cost of travel to work, what would the net income be?

djpbarry

Bagenal wrote: »

...how come no one is talking about cutting the cost of living pro rata with income cuts?

How would that work?

Bagenal wrote: »

Hands up those that would work for the minimum wage, minus income tax, prsi etc, then minus cost of travel to work, what would the net income be?

€313 per week after tax – I think I could manage with that if I had to.

Nijmegen

The black economy may be thriving, but it wasn't doing so bad in the last recession when those East Europeans were locked up behind a big wall.

Bagenal

djpbarry wrote: »

€313 per week after tax – I think I could manage with that if I had to.

Would I be correct in presuming that (a) you have a job at the moment & (b) if (a) is correct you are on more than your figure of €313 after tax minimum wage???

It's all too easy to say you'd manage on the minimum wage til you actually have to. A great many people shout that the minimum wage is enough to live on but when there's mention of pay cuts those very people are the ones shouting no way. An example would be certain people in a certain media organisation. Now it seems we have to have a referendum to change the the pay of the judicary who are on roughly €2800 per week & who are saying they cant afford to take a cut, I'd dearly like for them to justify that. Why should the less well off in society suffer any more?

Bagenal

djpbarry wrote: »

How would that work?
.

I dont know to be quite honest though from my own perspective with the way things are going something is going to have to give. Price of fuel for the car going up, talks of car insurance rising by 30% in the next year ( I insured my car a couple of weeks ago but if rise happens not doing next year, so therefore no way of travelling to work) taxes coming left right & centre, now mention of properthy charge, water & sewage charge even if you have your own systems.

Inverse to the power of one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGZ1nK4mOuw&feature=related

Heh, you gotta love how the mind works:
Foreigners = Durka dur
Irish Politicians = Ahh Lads!

Nice to see we have our priorities right.

Nodin

nice_guy80 wrote: »

It is clear from the 2011 Census preliminary data that thousands of people are still moving here from all over the EU

http://examiner.ie/ireland/tens-of-thousands-still-moving-here-from-abroad-159621.html

Why?

I believe it is mainly to do with out very generous welfare system
...............................................

You can't just arrive and claim, so I'd suggest your belief is based on a false premise.

djpbarry

Bagenal wrote: »

Would I be correct in presuming that (a) you have a job at the moment & (b) if (a) is correct you are on more than your figure of €313 after tax minimum wage???

It's all too easy to say you'd manage on the minimum wage til you actually have to.

Yes, I have a job and yes I earn more than €313 per week after tax. However, before I moved to London, I spent four years working as a full-time researcher in Dublin for €208-308 per week (drawn from a research grant, hence less than the minimum wage) – I managed. I cannot believe that people view €313 per week as virtual poverty.

Bagenal wrote: »

I dont know to be quite honest though from my own perspective with the way things are going something is going to have to give.

High prices drop when people don't pay high prices.

pconn062

nice_guy80 wrote: »

They're hardly coming here for the job prospects???

But you said in your original post that there are jobs out there?? So maybe they are here for the job opportunities.

kraggy

I'm crap with graphs, statistics etc, and a little drunk.

But can someone explain to me why:

total number of non-nationals < (no. of non-nationals employed + no. of non-nationals unemployed).

Or will I regret having asked this when i sober up?

later12

kraggy wrote: »

I'm crap with graphs, statistics etc, and a little drunk.

But can someone explain to me why:

total number of non-nationals < (no. of non-nationals employed + no. of non-nationals unemployed).

Or will I regret having asked this when i sober up?

The live register is an administrative headcount of signees that social welfare officers return to the CSO on given days. It is not a measurement of unemployment, as some signees may be working, or may not be receiving benefits, or may not be actively seeking work.

The QNHS does measure employment and unemployment, but it is not an administrative count, it is an estimate based on regional surveys. Therefore some level of deviation is bound to occur.
Re: nationality, as the QNHS says:

The figures are considered ‘broadly indicative’ as the very large migration flows in recent years present a significant measurement challenge in a general purpose household survey such as the QNHS.

You can see the divergence between those who are unemployed as their principal economic status (PES) between the QNHS and the Live Register in the following graph. As the CSO point out, there is short term divergence, but this becomes less significant over time



Presently, these are the updated figures for the live register



As you can see there have been just under 80,000 non Irish nationals on the live register through 2011 to date.

The last QNHS estimated there were 202,000 non Irish nationals at work in the labour force in Q1 2011. It estimated that there were 45,000 foreign nationals who were unemployed. This would indeed have suggested that there about 247,000 foreign nationals in the country who are working or available to work.

So the live register counts about 80,000 signing on, yet the QNHS counts just over half that as unemployed. Why the big difference?

One likelihood is that a number of those 202,000 foreign nationals who are in the country are legitimately signing on (e.g. casual workers). But they would be considered to be in employment by the QNHS. Or, if not seeking work (for example) they may be considered to be economically inactive by the QNHS.

Nevertheless, they might be signing at their local social welfare office, and appearing on the live register, yet not be appearing as unemployed on the QNHS survey.

It works the other way too. An individual might be unemployed, receiving no benefits (or indeed receiving benefits but not signing for them) and not appear on the live register, but be counted as unemployed by the QNHS.

Dannyboy83

Do the social welfare record figures on those they turn away?
There are a large amount of immigrants simply being refused welfare.

Also, do they include people who are being supported by the HSE?
(i.e. Social protection officers)


I think there are a lot more illegal immigrants here than most realise, but I don't really see that as a problem.
Ime, a lot of Georgians simply buy Lithuanian passports but wouldn't dare ask for social welfare for fear they are caught (I know several who have been and got jail, then after release they are allowed to stay, but not allowed to travel to other EU countries.)

later12

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Do the social welfare record figures on those they turn away?
There are a large amount of immigrants simply being refused welfare.

Also, do they include people who are being supported by the HSE?
(i.e. Social protection officers)

It is quite possible that either the Department or individual social welfare offices have records of successful:unsuccessful claims, but this is not information that is made public.

There is also no data which is routinely released for supplementary welfare recipients, nor for exceptional needs payments, but as far as I know those claimants would not be appearing on the live register either, may need to check that.

chillin_penguin

One of these days i would like to find a thread like this that does not end up being a rant of "Them B*****ds stealing are jobs and are women" There is quite a lot of honest decent hard working foreign nationals in the country.

If the OP flat mates are milking the system then why does he not report it??
If they are not doing anything illegal then any irish person would be able to "milk the system"

ﻕWho here has not downloaded a movie or song illegaly??
I dont smoke but if i did and i could get them cheap you think that i will say no i want to pay full price so i know the tax is going to the goverment.

If a friend askes me to do a job for them on the weekend Im not going to go and fill out a tax form afterwards to make sure im all taxed up, would you?? Because if you dont then you are also part of the black ecomeny.

And yes I am 100% pure irish so IRISH PEOPLE ARE ALSO TO BLAME.

Can we please talk about how with more people in the country how will are public infrastructure cope etc rather then these stupid pointless racist rants. Dont you realize there is currently more irish in some australian citys then australia's at the moment??? Is it ok for them to start saying we are all B*****ds taking their jobs??

ArtSmart

nice_guy80 wrote: »

It is clear from the 2011 Census preliminary data that thousands of people are still moving here from all over the EU

http://examiner.ie/ireland/tens-of-thousands-still-moving-here-from-abroad-159621.html

Why?

I believe it is mainly to do with out very generous welfare system
s

Nice Guy?

you sure?

RandomName2

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I think there are a lot more illegal immigrants here than most realise, but I don't really see that as a problem.
Ime, a lot of Georgians simply buy Lithuanian passports but wouldn't dare ask for social welfare for fear they are caught (I know several who have been and got jail, then after release they are allowed to stay, but not allowed to travel to other EU countries.)

Well that doesn't make much sense!

I mean, if your anecdote is accurate, when illegal immigrants travelling with fake documentation are caught they are imprisoned at the tax-payers' expense (it would be far preferable to give them work permits!) and then not only not deported - but not allowed emigrate to another Shengen Area country!?!?

---

I don't know what the situation is here, but in the UK illegal immigrants cannot be deported if they throw away their passports. Funniest system ever.

desertcircus

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't know what the situation is here, but in the UK illegal immigrants cannot be deported if they throw away their passports. Funniest system ever.

Evidence?

Icepick

Also interesting to see that people complaining about foreign workers are often of the "dey took our jabs" variety. They are scared that there won't be enough left for them.

Don't you think that employed foreigners are as pissed of at spongers - both foreign and Irish - as the Irish?

Also there have been thousands of foreigners who came here without costing the society anything, worked and paid taxes and left without ever claiming welfare.

later12

The problem is that those who are opposed to immigration can look at the statistics and say "look, there are 202,000 foreign nationals working in Ireland, that would take an enormous chunk out of our unemployment problem". It would, certainly.

But the issue is that (i) it wasn't so long ago that Ireland had a labour shortage and these workers were genuinely needed, and (ii) you cannot just send someone 'home' when they are from the European Union and have every right to be here, and (iii) you have to think of the consequences of 200,000 people vanishing from an economy on consumer demand.

But first, for example, of the 202,000 foreign nationals working in Ireland, 150,000 of them are citizens of the United Kingdom or elsewhere in the EU-27. They cannot be touched, so they're out of the picture.

There are about 50,000 from the other category, but 1 in every 3 of these none EU nationals are working in the area of human health, and we may not necessarily have the skilled workers to replace a significant number of them. This may change over time.

As for that 50,000 in general, it is unclear how many of them are here on leave to remain through marriage or civil partnerships, i.e. how many are married to Irish or European citizens?

Secondly, except for where a position is a strategically important professional occupation, Green cards, which only ever last 2 years, are only awarded to those earning >€60,000. Jobs vacancies of this level of seniority would not be suitable for most unemployed social welfare claimants.

Work permits are available for jobs paying a minimum of €30,000, but the job satisfy the labour market needs test, i.e. it must be advertised extensively to Europeans before being awarded to a non EU citizen. There are also other conditions attached, such as, for example a condition that <50% of the staff must be non-EEA nationals, the majority must always be Europeans.
There are also some job positions which are just downright ineligibe for permits - for example, domestic workers, clerical staff, admin staff, all retail workers, all manufacturing and production staff, all hotel and tourism and catering staff (except chefs), all classes of tradesmen (plumbers, carpenters, brickies and so on), even au pairs are excluded. The list is extensive, and it goes on and on.

While there may be some occasions where the rules are open to abuse (this is inevitable), as you can see, the rules are very stringent.

Wishing that there were some painless way of sending people 'home' is perfectly understandable, but I'm afraid that looking at the foreign nationals in the labour force, and with a mind to the already strict requirements that are in place, I'm afraid this just does not look like a realistic option.

Nijmegen

Those calling for us to send the foreigners home might stop and wonder how many of our lot could be sent the other way. A lot more than 200,000

OneOfThem Stumbled

Icepick wrote: »

Also interesting to see that people complaining about foreign workers are often of the "dey took our jabs" variety. They are scared that there won't be enough left for them.

There isn't.

Hence the high unemployment figures in this country.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Its unfortunate that people would try and blame high levels of unemployment on foreign nationals rather than on the bankers and politicians who have wrought so much damage on the country.

djpbarry

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Its unfortunate that people would try and blame high levels of unemployment on foreign nationals rather than on the bankers and politicians who have wrought so much damage on the country.

Nothing to do with the career choices of those who are unemployed (speaking very generally)?

later12

djpbarry wrote: »

Nothing to do with the career choices of those who are unemployed (speaking very generally)?

Politicians are responsible for setting fiscal and economic policies, including stoking a property boom to unreasonable heights.

You cannot seriously advocate a guy coming out of school or out of college and turning away work in property, or construction because of en ethical or economics-based objection. That just isn't practical. People are right to go seek out work where work is available.

It is unwise to base a huge mortgage on possibly unsustainable employment, of course. But I would have a hard time criticising some laid off brickie or engineer or construction worker for his employment choices. He cannot be expected to be an economic barometer, and from his point of view, he is right to go where he can earn a strong wage.

dsmythy

Nijmegen wrote: »

Those calling for us to send the foreigners home might stop and wonder how many of our lot could be sent the other way. A lot more than 200,000

Irrevelant really. What other countries' migration policies are is none of our concern.

Nodin

dsmythy wrote: »

Irrevelant really. What other countries' migration policies are is none of our concern.

You might take that up with the various politicians who campaigned for favourable American legislation for our "illegals" over the years.

beeftotheheels

Nodin wrote: »

You might take that up with the various politicians who campaigned for favourable American legislation for our "illegals" over the years.

Oh Nodin, sometimes I really do wonder what goes on in that little head of yours. They're our illegals so other countries should be glad to have them, unlike other people's illegals....

zom

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Its unfortunate that people would try and blame high levels of unemployment on foreign nationals rather than on the bankers and politicians who have wrought so much damage on the country.

I read about 2 individuals who own state few hundred millions and live abroad to prevent state to execute the debts. I bet there is more such individuals but seems like nobody here really care. It's easier to just point your neighbours??

Nodin

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Oh Nodin, sometimes I really do wonder what goes on in that little head of yours. They're our illegals so other countries should be glad to have them, unlike other people's illegals....

I know. And they aren't even illegals. They're 'the undocumented Irish'.

djpbarry

later10 wrote: »

You cannot seriously advocate a guy coming out of school or out of college and turning away work in property, or construction because of en ethical or economics-based objection.

No, that’s not what I’m saying. Let me put it like this. I have a cousin who dropped out of school when he was about 16 to work in construction as he felt he was better off making money on building sites versus continuing his education. So, he spent 10 years working primarily as a plasterer. Now, there’s obviously a lack of work for him, but he has absolutely no intention of doing anything else other than sitting around and waiting for the construction industry to take off again so he can continue working as a plasterer – he’ll be on the dole until that time comes, if it ever does. Now, it could be argued that his decision to drop out of school was ill-advised, but he was only a kid – he shouldn’t be crucified for making a mistake. However, he has absolutely no intention of recommencing his education or retraining to do something else, so I find it very difficult to have sympathy for him (or anyone else with a similar attitude).

Nijmegen

djpbarry wrote: »

No, that’s not what I’m saying. Let me put it like this. I have a cousin who dropped out of school when he was about 16 to work in construction as he felt he was better off making money on building sites versus continuing his education. So, he spent 10 years working primarily as a plasterer. Now, there’s obviously a lack of work for him, but he has absolutely no intention of doing anything else other than sitting around and waiting for the construction industry to take off again so he can continue working as a plasterer – he’ll be on the dole until that time comes, if it ever does. Now, it could be argued that his decision to drop out of school was ill-advised, but he was only a kid – he shouldn’t be crucified for making a mistake. However, he has absolutely no intention of recommencing his education or retraining to do something else, so I find it very difficult to have sympathy for him (or anyone else with a similar attitude).

I tend to agree that in the here and now we need to not so gently prod people to do what is best for them and the economy in the long run.

Sadly I doubt the government has such vision.

later12

djpbarry wrote: »

No, that’s not what I’m saying. Let me put it like this. I have a cousin who dropped out of school when he was about 16 to work in construction as he felt he was better off making money on building sites versus continuing his education. So, he spent 10 years working primarily as a plasterer. Now, there’s obviously a lack of work for him, but he has absolutely no intention of doing anything else other than sitting around and waiting for the construction industry to take off again so he can continue working as a plasterer – he’ll be on the dole until that time comes, if it ever does. Now, it could be argued that his decision to drop out of school was ill-advised, but he was only a kid – he shouldn’t be crucified for making a mistake. However, he has absolutely no intention of recommencing his education or retraining to do something else, so I find it very difficult to have sympathy for him (or anyone else with a similar attitude).

Oh yes, I agree with that much alright. In fact I find it quite bizarre that Fas is still offering courses in things like

...
Plumbing for newcomers
or
Kerbing and Paving,
Stairs construction,
Stone walls and General Construction,
Vinyl floor installation,
Domestic gas installations,
Domestic heat pump installations,
Concreting,
Erecting scaffolding,
Construction site drain laying,
Oh, and my personal favourite, after all of that if you still haven't found a job in a field related to the construction industry, well you can always do a 16 week long full time course in...
DECIDING YOUR FUTURE!

Icepick

Also, a lot of people criticize Irish laws and bureaucracy rather than foreigners. Well, foreigners cannot even vote in the GE. So you know who elected those who enacted the laws and presided over them.

Bagenal

later10 wrote: »

Oh yes, I agree with that much alright. In fact I find it quite bizarre that Fas is still offering courses in things like

...
Plumbing for newcomers
or
Kerbing and Paving,
Stairs construction,
Stone walls and General Construction,
Vinyl floor installation,
Domestic gas installations,
Domestic heat pump installations,
Concreting,
Erecting scaffolding,
Construction site drain laying,
Oh, and my personal favourite, after all of that if you still haven't found a job in a field related to the construction industry, well you can always do a 16 week long full time course in...
DECIDING YOUR FUTURE!

VERY bizarre indeed buts thats our politicians for you, fixations with construction industry I've even heard some members of the present goverment say that it needs to be got moving again

Finnbar01

nice_guy80 wrote: »

It is clear from the 2011 Census preliminary data that thousands of people are still moving here from all over the EU

http://examiner.ie/ireland/tens-of-thousands-still-moving-here-from-abroad-159621.html

Why?

I believe it is mainly to do with out very generous welfare system

the weekly payment is too much
the rate is not reduced after 6 months - no incentive to work
if you're on the dole for 12 months then you should only get half the rate, until you go and get a job. there are jobs out there, just a lot of people don't want to work
if you're not willing to work, then stop all payments

you get help paying your rent - people actually get more than they pay in rents. the rental market is being propped up by the state.
these landlords should be paid direct, not through the tenant!

if you have a child just live seperate to your partner and you get free housing! and a special single mother payment! ridiculous

disability? then come on over and we'll give you a special payment for that.

then you have clothing allowance. books allowance.
people moving to Ireland are getting a free ride!!

I live with a Polish fella and Slovenian girl, so I know well how they are all milking the system here.
And the amount of stuff going on in the black economy with them is unreal. (would never have believed it until I talked to the polish lad in the house)

Green diesel
Cigarettes
EU Driving Licences
Buying and selling cars
pirate DVDs

Well according to the Keynesian economists this is a good thing. Imagine if we have another 200,000 immigrants.

200,000 * €200 * 52 weeks = €2.087 billion a year. Great, what a boost to our economy.

Then we have to take into account medical cards, childrens allowance, rent supplement and other social welfare entitlements. We could bring the total figure up to at least €5 billion per year, spent in our economy!

Let's have 500,000 immigrants. Whoo hoo! We are saved!