Brothers' dispute with GAA

Essexboy

What is the story here?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/brothers-dispute-with-gaa-settled-159526.html

With Commonsense and good will this dispute could have been settled quietly long ago.
So is this a universal GAA problem or just a Kerry problem?

Given that most local clubs are filled with Neanderthals who believe that "no-one can tell the GAA what to do" - as one of them told me - the former looks to be the case but alternatively could it be the old "the Dublin crowd are agin us" syndrome?

goat2

i just read a piece of that, and what is confusing about the thing is, these two young fellows are being sent seven miles to a club, instead of being part of the club nearest to them, which is only a mile away, does not make sense to me, as when they have to go practice their parents have to drive them the seven miles, where as if they only had to go the one mile they could walk or cycle, or go with neighbour, putting parents to more expense, and trouble, football is supposed to be a sport, past time, leisure, why does it have to be turned into a chore.
they are young boys for gods sake, it is great to see them interested in football, rather than hanging around street corners,

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

i just read a piece of that, and what is confusing about the thing is, these two young fellows are being sent seven miles to a club, instead of being part of the club nearest to them, which is only a mile away, does not make sense to me

But the whole basis of the GAA is predicated on the Parish. If you do not have some rule tying kids to their Parish, then they will often be easily lured by the bigger clubs and the concern is that there will be a rush to the local town teams (funnily enough the fellows here seem to want to do the opposite and to move to a club further from Killarney, but guess that is because of the particular circumstances). In an amateur sport, where no money is involved, there is a risk that rural clubs could haemorrhage players without getting any compensation for nurturing their talent.

siblers

Same thing happened about 12 or so years ago in the exact same parish, involving both of the same clubs. 3 guys I used to play GAA with for Listry were blocked for playing with them and forced to play with Firies, one guy gave up playing, anothe guy went with firies and the other player took it to the courts with his dad and they overruled the case, which meant they could play with Listry. It was quite a major deal, his dad was on Pat Kenny on radio one and was all over the local papers, really surprised this is happening again after all that happened those many years ago, there's good folks at listry who'll hopefully sort this out for them.

siblers

Deleted User wrote: »

But the whole basis of the GAA is predicated on the Parish. If you do not have some rule tying kids to their Parish, then they will often be easily lured by the bigger clubs and the concern is that there will be a rush to the local town teams (funnily enough the fellows here seem to want to do the opposite and to move to a club further from Killarney, but guess that is because of the particular circumstances). In an amateur sport, where no money is involved, there is a risk that rural clubs could haemorrhage players without getting any compensation for nurturing their talent.

Parish borders in the listry/firies area are all over the place, while that area is considered firies, there are houses surrounding them probably no more than 50 metres away that are all in the listry area. They go to a school in the listry parish, all their friends are more or less from listry and all their friends are from listry. If they went with firies they probably wouldn't know a soul there.

5live

I'd say its common enough in kerry anyway. I can think of at least 4 cases with my local club going back 30 years and one nasty one currently heading for the courts.

In fairness it is easily sorted in my opinion. Let them play for the club they want to but they cant play against their 'parent' club until they are 18. Then their 'parent' club wont have to face them and when they are old enough they can make their own choices

Kerrydude1981

Does it not make sense to let them play for the club nearest to them,sometimes the GAA parish rule can be retarded,how does this parish rule work in a town like Tralee? These young lads just want to play football,hopefully the powers that be will see sense when this vote is taken and they will be left play for Listry

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

i cannot understand how a person cannot pick who he play with

I don't think anyone is saying they cannot pick who they can play with. He can kick a ball with who he wants any time in anyone's garden. Merely that within the confines of the GAA there are rules which must be applied. There are rules restricting who can play with who in every sport, a fellow who is 13 cannot play with the under 12s even if he is best friends with them etc. etc. They are not nonsense, they are not there for some perverse reason, although of course they may lead to stupid results such as the one that affected the kids in this case.

Kerrydude1981

Delegates at last nights County Committee meeting voted overwhelmingly by over two to one (59 to 23) to refuse the O'Sullivan brothers Padraic and Colin a derogation from the Parish Rule that would allow them play with Listry rather than Firies and it brought an angry response from the boys mother Christina O'Sullivan who stormed out of the meeting before the votes were counted.
There was a request from Christina and Michael O'Sullivan on behalf of their sons Padraic and Colin for derogation pursuant to Rule 20 of the Kerry County Committee Bye-Laws allowing them to play with Listry instead of Firies which would be their club according to bye-law.
Christina O'Sullivan maintained that brothers Padraic (14) and Colin (8) O'Sullivan are being deprived of their right to play football because they have been told they must play for a club seven miles from their home.


The boys want to play for Listry GAA club, which is just over a mile from their home at Ballytransna, Faha, Killarney, in Co Kerry.
But because they live in the parish of Firies, they have been told by the Kerry County Committee that they must play for the Firies club, which is more than seven miles away.
Last July a vote of 33-21 was taken by delegates when the matter arose before, refusing the boys permission to play for Listry. There were 20 abstentions on the night.
County Chairman Jerome Conway in a fair and impartial manner outlined the history of the case and stated that the agreement reached between the O'Sullivan's and the County Board in the wake of a recent High Court challenge required that the delegates would have to vote on the derogation after the case for and against is put by the O'Sullivan's, and both clubs Firies and Listry.

Michael O'Sullivan, outlined his reasons for looking for a derogation of the Bye-Law so as his sons could play football with Listry rather than Firies "We just want our sons to be able to play football with their friends who all play with Listry, whose pitch is only a mile and half from where we live while the Firies pitch is over seven miles away. We are not challenging the Parish rule and this case is not about breaking Parish Rule. It should be about allowing children to play football. It is very hard to explain to the boys why they cannot play with Listry when there are others from our area who have been allowed to do so in the past, the Ahern's, McCarthy's, Courtney's and Tadie O'Sullivan who were granted a derogation. We just want whats best for our children and if they are not allowed to play with Listry they will not play with Firies and will be lost to the game"
Fires delegate Tom Kelliher said that the club never refused any youngster from Faha School to play with Firies and would welcome the O'Sullivan's with open arms. "If derogation from the Parish Rule is granted then it will be end of small clubs like Firies."
Delegates who spoke felt that the matter had been well thrashed out last year and then a vote was taken with the derogation not being granted on a 59 to 23 vote.

The Parish Rule has been the centre of a number of disputes in Kerry GAA and this particular case involving the O'Sullivan brothers is not new.
Back in 1999 another case involving brothers and involving the same two clubs, Listry and Firies, also ended up in the High Court with the matter being returned to the Co Board and derogation was granted with the brothers ending up playing for Listry which was outside their parish.
The Parish Rule in Kerry is covered by Bye Law 20 (1) which states that "a player may only play with a club in the parish as defined in Rule 6 (2) of the Official guide and while there are stated exceptions none of them apply in this case.


The rationale behind the rule is to protect the smaller clubs from losing their best players to the bigger and more successful clubs and it is there to protect clubs from the dreaded transfers best illustrated by the Eamon Fennell saga that split Dublin GAA in 2009/2010!
Only the clubs at a County Committee meeting can grant a derogation as the Bye Law can only be changed at County Convention. Former Central Council delegate and former County Board chairman Gerald McKenna appealed to the Firies club to consider making part of their parish "if not an open area then an area where derogations could be allowed" He also stated "Rancour and bitterness in opposite outposts of a parish does nothing for neighbours nor for the GAA"

http://www.kerrygaa.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2247:county-committee-delegates-vote-not-to-grant-derogation-from-parish-rule-&catid=1&Itemid=74

Kinda sad these young fellas arent been allowed to play with their friends with Listry,Their father was on Liveline today talking about this issue,its a right mess

ciaeim

this case all the more sad when you consider before firies gaa club was started people from this area (ballytrasna)played for listry.in the past firies gaa pitch was located at penders which was very accessible to all parts of firies but since they relocated their facilities to farranfore it has made it very difficult for parents from this area to take their kids for training and matches . firies were not worried about kids from ballytrasna when they moved over 5 miles further away ,so why are they so worried now ? and the gaa say they want to promote their sports to kids ,some promoting this is .i understand totally the need for parish rule but sometimes people need to use common sense as these delegates predecessors did in the past :mad:(12 years ago) .

Pickas

Is the GAA a community based organisation or a parish based organisation?
The fact is that it that it cannot be both. If the GAA truly believes the parish is the 'cornerstone' of the organisation this "parish rule" could be made an enforceable rule in the Official Guide, rather than an option as it currently stands. But to do so, it would have to remove all references to community, including the following:
Mission:
“The GAA is a community based volunteer organisation promoting Gaelic games, culture and lifelong participation”
Values:
Community Identity
• Community is at the heart of our Association. Everything we do helps to enrich the communities we serve.
• We foster a clear sense of identity and place.


The enforcement of any catchment area, including a parish, is not a requirement of the rules of the GAA. However, it is a requirement of the rules to promote "Gaelic Games and pastimes", and to promote "a community spirit through its clubs.”
There is a similar case in Ballypickas, Laois, where the Club, community & families are split by unnecessary enforcement of "parish rule" and people have left the GAA!
Problems with the "parish rule" continue, resulting in people leaving the GAA and High Court cases. This could have been prevented!
Flaws with the "parish rule" were highlighted in 2002 by GAA President & experienced officials from Central & Provincial levels, & recommendations were ignored.
These high-level officials seem to have adopted 'ostrich' management - if they ignore the problem long enough it will go away. We all know this doesn't work!