Most efficient Diesel car for €4000

handlemaster

What is the best diesel car that can be bought for €4000.

turbodiesel

handlemaster wrote: »

What is the best diesel car that can be bought for €4000.

What bracket of car are we talking.....

Micra/fiesta/focus/mondeo size?

very possible a peugeot is the most economic........

handlemaster

turbodiesel wrote: »

What bracket of car are we talking.....

Micra/fiesta/focus/mondeo size?

very possible a peugeot is the most economic........

mid sized car .. althought a 308 or somthing similar would be alright. Just the price of petrol its a killer

MugMugs

handlemaster wrote: »

What is the best diesel car that can be bought for €4000.

Average Annual Mileage ?

handlemaster

MugMugs wrote: »

Average Annual Mileage ?

10000 - 12000

MugMugs

handlemaster wrote: »

10000 - 12000

Really cant see the saving you'll make with a Diesel so.

I assume you do stop start traffic, short runs etc etc...

You'd pay more on maintenance costs than you would save.

handlemaster

I won't be doing alot of city driving alright. Do the diesels give trouble when doing shorter trips ?

MugMugs

handlemaster wrote: »

I won't be doing alot of city driving alright. Do the diesels give trouble when doing shorter trips ?

Yes.

Diesels cant heat up enough on short journeys. This can cause damage to the EGR Valve.

Generally Diesels now have DPF's which hate short journeys too.... Doubt a 4k motor would have one though.

In general, get yourself a nice small 1 litre petrol motor.

Mycroft H

MugMugs wrote: »

Really cant see the saving you'll make with a Diesel so.

I assume you do stop start traffic, short runs etc etc...

You'd pay more on maintenance costs than you would save.

I really love seeing this nugget wheeled out every time on boards when someone wants to buy a diesel.

10-12k miles is plenty for any diesel. As long as it has a long run every now and then it will be fine.


Go buy a diesel and enjoy the lower fuel price and far better fuel consumption

MugMugs wrote: »

Yes.

Diesels cant heat up enough on short journeys. This can cause damage to the EGR Valve.

Waffle.


I've two diesels at home. One xantia hdi 2.0 and a hdi 1.6 liter. Both are up to operating temp within 5-8 minutes (In or around 80 degrees for the xantia)

We've had a 2.2tid Saab 9-5, litre terrano, two 1.9tdi octavias, 1.9XUD Citroen BX and many more and we've never encountered any problem in them that wouldn't happen in the average petrol car

I've a 2.5TDi defender that does indeed take a while to come up to temperature, about 20 minutes but thats a 20 year old design,

colm_mcm

Very few €4k Diesels have a dpf anyway. This hearsay/hysteria is getting annoying.

MugMugs

landyman wrote: »

I really love seeing this nugget wheeled out every time on boards when someone wants to buy a diesel.

10-12k miles is plenty for any diesel. As long as it has a long run every now and then it will be fine.


Go buy a diesel and enjoy the lower fuel price and far better fuel consumption





Waffle.

You're talking through your backside.

The lad's talking about shifting a petrol car to change to diesel for low mileage runs ?

Short runs hurt Diesels. 05 TDI Fabia with 24K on the clock stands up to this. Nothing but problems with a relatively well respected engine.

Mother would have been better off with the 1.2 HTP engine but wouldnt listen.

kiddums

landyman wrote: »

As long as it has a long run every now and then it will be fine.

Just curious, what do you class as a long run? 30-40 mins at mostly 60MPH? More?
Whats a short run? 10 min round the town?

Mycroft H

MugMugs wrote: »

You're talking through your backside.

The lad's talking about shifting a petrol car to change to diesel for low mileage runs ?

Short runs hurt Diesels. 05 TDI Fabia with 24K on the clock stands up to this. Nothing but problems with a relatively well respected engine.

Mother would have been better off with the 1.2 HTP engine but wouldnt listen.

12k per year is hardly low mileage? I'd call that average. Thats 230ish miles per week. Yes I accept that very low mileage can be detrimental to diesels, but mileage more like 5-6k miles p.a


Yes this hysteria is getting bloody annoying.

colm_mcm

32 miles every day of the year isn't that small mileage.

Mycroft H

kiddums wrote: »

Just curious, what do you class as a long run? 30-40 mins at mostly 60MPH? More?
Whats a short run? 10 min round the town?

Anything that gets the car up to a sustained average temp while going at about 50mph is what I'd call a good run.

Short run? Down to the shops and back.

kiddums

landyman wrote: »

Anything that gets the car up to a sustained average temp while going at about 50mph is what I'd call a good run.

Short run? Down to the shops and back.

Thanks.
With all this talk of long and short runs I thought someone should clarify what is regarded as what.

peckerhead

MugMugs wrote: »

Short runs hurt Diesels. 05 TDI Fabia with 24K on the clock stands up to this. Nothing but problems with a relatively well respected engine.

If you want to swap anecdotal evidence, my missus does ABOUT a gazillion short hops (<5km) every week in our 06 1.9TDi Octavia (80k on the clock), and nary a problem in 3 years. I even do the oil service myself, and I'm not that handy around engines.

kermitpwee

MugMugs wrote: »

You're talking through your backside.

The lad's talking about shifting a petrol car to change to diesel for low mileage runs ?

Short runs hurt Diesels. 05 TDI Fabia with 24K on the clock stands up to this. Nothing but problems with a relatively well respected engine.

Mother would have been better off with the 1.2 HTP engine but wouldnt listen.

Short runs do not hurt a diesel unless it has a diesel particulate filter, the diesel on short runs is also quite economical and diesels are economical in traffic also.

Guy:Incognito

landyman wrote: »

One xantia hdi 2.0 ,

OT but should it come time to offload that ( not too soon though, I'm broke) , give me a shout. I doubled my Xantia collection recently (to 2 , with an Activa) and want to add another at some stage . Preferably a diesel estate but a diesel hatch or petrol estate will do :-)

cadaliac

As far as I can see, all the panic seems to be around modern diesel cars.
Old Skool diesel cars (and some modern) ones will have no problem with short journeys, once, as Landy says, they get up to operating temp.
DPF, EGR etc, will clog on a diesel if the operating temp is not reached. Like a cat converter, they operate based on heat.
DMF's seem to suffer in traffic also so the notion that diesels are not good on short runs is a true notion. However, there is a bit of miscommunication around these parts alright with regard to slagging off diesel cars.
32 miles a day isn't much really - espically if 12 of them are in traffic.

Mycroft H

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

OT but should it come time to offload that ( not too soon though, I'm broke) , give me a shout. I doubled my Xantia collection recently (to 2 , with an Activa) and want to add another at some stage . Preferably a diesel estate but a diesel hatch or petrol estate will do :-)

I'll let you know if I do, just taxed for it another year, so it wont be a while.


Its the rarer 110bhp Hdi not the boggo standard 90bhp irish poverty spec one :pac:

Leonard Hofstadter

landyman wrote: »

I've two diesels at home. One xantia hdi 2.0 and a hdi 1.6 liter. Both are up to operating temp within 5-8 minutes (In or around 80 degrees for the xantia)

We've had a 2.2tid Saab 9-5, litre terrano, two 1.9tdi octavias, 1.9XUD Citroen BX and many more and we've never encountered any problem in them that wouldn't happen in the average petrol car

I've a 2.5TDi defender that does indeed take a while to come up to temperature, about 20 minutes but thats a 20 year old design,

peckerhead wrote: »

If you want to swap anecdotal evidence, my missus does ABOUT a gazillion short hops (<5km) every week in our 06 1.9TDi Octavia (80k on the clock), and nary a problem in 3 years. I even do the oil service myself, and I'm not that handy around engines.

Don't you just love it when people say that those advising anyone interested in a diesel to thread carefully and that certain models are not at all suitable for particular types of driving are reputed to be lieing or telling BS etc and then those who say that diesels are grand have old school diesels which not even the most anti-diesel poster in the world would admit will give trouble on short journeys:rolleyes:?

OP, follow MugMugs advice - be careful with the diesel you are interested in - some may have DPFs and DPFs are a bad thing for anyone who does mostly urban driving (unlikely at €4k but you never know - Peugeots, Citroens and I believe some Mazdas have had DPFs for donkey's years).

Also regardless of what diesel you're looking at, the DMF (dual mass flywheel) may pack in and that is expensive to repair - there really is no way of knowing when it's going to give up until it starts rattling unfortunately:rolleyes:!

unkel

landyman wrote: »

Yes this hysteria is getting bloody annoying.

Hold on a sec. Never mind any truth / hysteria about maintenance cost of a diesel.

Fact is that the fuel savings on 10k miles per year by going diesel are minimal

Fact is that where a diesel car within budget is €4k, a same year same spec, same condition petrol would cost maybe €2k

You'll have to fork out the extra €2k for the diesel up front in full. It will take you 2 years to make that back (and for simplicity I'm ignoring interest costs, opportunity costs on this money but also not the slightly higher residual value of the diesel car)

galwaytt

handlemaster wrote: »

mid sized car .. althought a 308 or somthing similar would be alright. Just the price of petrol its a killer

petrol is cheaper than diesel, so I don't get your point.

What you need is a small, clean, simple, economical petrol car. The Fabia 1.2Hpi is but one example.

And, in your price range, you'll be looking at (big)cc-based tax on diesels, versus small on petrols.

Guy:Incognito

galwaytt wrote: »

petrol is cheaper than diesel, so I don't get your point.
.

What garages are you using?

johndaman66

I was just looking at the OP's scenario there and done some rough calculations in excel. I used VW Golf as an example as every second person here seems to think VW are the best thing since sliced bread. If the OP were to go for the likes of a 1.9 TDI Golf (I would imagine his budget will dictate that a lot of the cars he will be considering will fall in around this cubic capacity) I don't think his savings in fuel would realistically justify the diesel versus the likes of a 1.4 petrol Golf....No question about it but a 1.4 Golf is pretty slow but all the same for mostly town and city driving I feel it would be more than adequate really and do remember that most often when driving in Ireland you are only as fast as the tail lights in front of you.

Based on the figures on the autotrader.co.uk website I assumed a combined consumption figure of 53.3mpg for the 1.9 TDI 100bhp Golf and 41.5mpg for the 1.4 75bhp Golf. Based on the latest average fuel prices on pumps.ie I assumed 139.9c per litre of diesel and 149.9c per litre of petrol. I then considered the OP's suggested figure of 12,000 miles per annum which is approximately 230 miles per week. On the basis of these figures fuel cost in the diesel is €27.50 per week while it is €37.84 in the petrol. Yes a saving of over €10 per week on fuel costs alone.

However, next lets consider motor tax. €582 per annum to tax the 1.9 TDI Golf versus €333 to tax the 1.4 Golf. I work out that the difference of €249 between these two figures alone means that the OP will actually only save money on running cost based on these two figures combined after 24 weeks of driving per annum....I consider that very significant....2 weeks shy of six months.

Then consider higher maintenance costs and on balance the likelyhood of more costly repair bills with the diesel (sometimes very very likely with certain marques anyway). I feel that any savings the OP makes on fuel alone could be quite quickly wiped out and then some. There is also the possibilty that the insurance premium may be higher on the diesel. I appreciate that this will depend very much on the insurance company and the OP's individual circumstances. If his insurance won't be any higher is certainly wont be any lower on the diesel.

I appreciate that I have made certain assumptions in my calculations. There is no doubt some won't agree with my assumptions or considerations. My over-riding point is really that its shortsighted and even perhaps foolish to look at the price at the pumps alone in isolation in making this decision (as many would seem to do).

antomorro-sei

I've a 1.3 diesel, its a 2003 Corsa. Does the job. Cheap to tax and insure and the savings on fuel I make are pretty damn good.

Wanna buy it?