Coral-Eclipse Stakes

Harry Angstrom

I'm surprised to see that So You Think has gone odds-on for this. I'd have thought that there wouldn't be much in the betting between Workforce and So You Think. Does anyone else reckon that Workforce could be a bit of value at 2/1? I think he's achieved more on paper than SYT and there was plenty to like about his comeback win in the Brigadier Gerard considering he was conceding 6Ibs and he was expected to need the run. SYT had a tough race at Royal Ascot only 2 weeks ago whereas Workforce should be tuned up perfectly for this and on a slightly tenuous line of form through Rewilding he could be the equal if not better than So You Think on the day.
I still can't help thinking that SYT has done little yet to justify the hype surrounding him, apart from winning a terrible Group One at the Curragh.

gscully

So You Think wasn't quite fit enough at Ascot, but that race will have brought him on a lot. Word from AOB's yard is that he is the best horse they've ever had. That's a good enough endorsement for me.

UrbanSea

It is value,but can't say I'd bet on it,it looks like a match bet at the minute.
There be some very very long faces around Ballydoyle if he were to get beaten two runs in a row.

TheMilkyPirate

gscully wrote: »

So You Think wasn't quite fit enough at Ascot, but that race will have brought him on a lot. Word from AOB's yard is that he is the best horse they've ever had. That's a good enough endorsement for me.

Yeah just like every other horse he's trained at top level, I like AOB but ll that is just breeding talk.

Cape blanco e/w for me anyway top class 10f form.

Harry Angstrom

baraca wrote: »

Yeah just like every other horse he's trained at top level, I like AOB but ll that is just breeding talk.

Agree 100%. I'm a big fan of O'Brien as well but I'm getting tired of all this "best we've ever trained" stuff which regularly comes out from them. They said it about Galileo, George Washington, Rip Van Winkle etc. We all know it's to talk up these horses for their stud careers. So You Think might very well be the best the've ever trained but seeing as they've said it so many times in the past, it's starting to wear thin now.

UrbanSea

baraca wrote: »

Yeah just like every other horse he's trained at top level, I like AOB but ll that is just breeding talk.

Cape blanco e/w for me anyway top class 10f form.

Cape Blanco has been nowhere near good enough this season and running it over a mile last time looked like a last resort to get back to good form.

I wouldn't go near it after it sold so much of it's ownership

gscully

UrbanSea wrote: »

Cape Blanco has been nowhere near good enough this season and running it over a mile last time looked like a last resort to get back to good form.

I wouldn't go near it after it sold so much of it's ownership

Plus, he's no longer entered in this race...

UrbanSea

That's reason enough so

TheMilkyPirate

UrbanSea wrote: »

Cape Blanco has been nowhere near good enough this season and running it over a mile last time looked like a last resort to get back to good form.

I wouldn't go near it after it sold so much of it's ownership

He's had two runs this year over suitable distances finishing 1l behind the winner in the DWC and a 4th in the prix ganay beaten 2 1/2 lengths. 10f and 11f respectively. There good runs and he's a beautiful colt who's top class on his day was worth seeing if this was going to be that day at 14's or whatever he was.

I don't know what running him over a mile was all about, So i won't comment.

UrbanSea

2 and a half lengths doesn't sound like a lot but it is when it's a top gr.1,he was well beaten that day. And the World Cup form is hard to determine,it's well known the top flat horses aren't out that time of year.
I think Cape Blanco gets found out against proper gr.1 horses e.g in the Arc,French Derby,first run this season

aidan24326

gscully wrote: »

So You Think wasn't quite fit enough at Ascot, but that race will have brought him on a lot. Word from AOB's yard is that he is the best horse they've ever had. That's a good enough endorsement for me.

There's no way So You Think is the best they've had. This is a yard that has had Galileo, High Chapparal*, Dylan Thomas, Hawk Wing and Rick Of Gibraltar. So You Think has a bit to go before he joins that class, at least in this part of the world anyway. If he's really as good as all that he should win tomorrow by about 6 or 7 lengths. We'll see.

*For me High Chapparal is probably the best they've had.

tryfix

aidan24326 wrote: »

There's no way So You Think is the best they've had. This is a yard that has had Galileo, High Chapparal*, Dylan Thomas, Hawk Wing and Rick Of Gibraltar. So You Think has a bit to go before he joins that class, at least in this part of the world anyway. If he's really as good as all that he should win tomorrow by about 6 or 7 lengths. We'll see.

*For me High Chapparal is probably the best they've had.

Loved that horse , tough as nails like his dad , underrated because he wasn't as flash in his wins as others . Take out Hawk Wing and he would have beaten Moon Ballad a future Dubai World Cup winner by 14 lengths at Epsom , that would have seen him proclaimed as one of the great Derby winners .

aidan24326

tryfix wrote: »

Loved that horse , tough as nails like his dad , underrated because he wasn't as flash in his wins as others . Take out Hawk Wing and he would have beaten Moon Ballad a future Dubai World Cup winner by 14 lengths at Epsom , that would have seen him proclaimed as one of the great Derby winners .

I was there that day (and backed him aswell ) He beat Hawk Wing fair and square in that one. Having Murtagh the supersub on board didn't do any harm either.

Two Breeders Cup wins aswell. Like you say he wasn't flash but a horse you could always depend on to give everything he had. A good mixture of class and toughness.

bellybuster12

I'm not one for backing odds on prices, but "so you think" is will not be beaten in this imo. I think its buying money.

I'd imagine ballydoyle were sick after not winning the last day and i dont think they will leave anything to chance, this horse has a big rep to live up to.

hucklebuck

UrbanSea wrote: »

It is value,but can't say I'd bet on it,it looks like a match bet at the minute.
There be some very very long faces around Ballydoyle if he were to get beaten two runs in a row.

There are already some long faces in Ballydoyle:D - Thats my **** joke out of the way.

hucklebuck

Agree on the AOB comments, he is the Frankie Dettori of training, {insert name here} is the best I have ever ridden/ trained.

I have to say whoever said So You Think is like buying money should be locked up for insanity, if Workforce runs anywhere near his Derby or Arc form he should win doing handstands and looks the best bet in a long time @ 7/4.

Anyone else think it is shocking for O Brien to say he got beaten because he was not fit enough and not get some sort of citing for it, he is always at it.:mad:

TheMilkyPirate

"So you think is like buying money" lol!

Workforce for me 7/4 about a derby and arc winner? I feel like a criminal.

tryfix

baraca wrote: »

"So you think is like buying money" lol!

Workforce for me 7/4 about a derby and arc winner? I feel like a criminal.

Well if want to buy money william hill are offering evens SYT and 13/8 Workforce . Have an even bet on each and you collect a small dividend if Workforce wins and get your money back if SYT wins or stake adjust your bet to even the win out on either horse . Then proceed to put your foot through the telly if Snow Fairy or one of the others wins .

hucklebuck

tryfix wrote: »

Well if want to buy money william hill are offering evens SYT and 13/8 Workforce . Have an even bet on each and you collect a small dividend if Workforce wins and get your money back if SYT wins or stake adjust your bet to even the win out on either horse . Then proceed to put your foot through the telly if Snow Fairy or one of the others wins .

You should do evens on SYT and take the 7/4 with another bookie, or you could just do two straight forecasts the pair, Snow Fairy is a lovely filly but she is not in their league in my opinion.

tryfix

hucklebuck wrote: »

You should do evens on SYT and take the 7/4 with another bookie, or you could just do two straight forecasts the pair, Snow Fairy is a lovely filly but she is not in their league in my opinion.

I can't warm to this race as a betting proposition , it's one to be enjoyed and if pushed i'd think SYT is more favoured by the conditions of the race even though Workforce has the Class .

Goldcupfav

Machine that is all !!

bellybuster12

bellybuster12 wrote: »

I'm not one for backing odds on prices, but "so you think" is will not be beaten in this imo. I think its buying money.

I'd imagine ballydoyle were sick after not winning the last day and i dont think they will leave anything to chance, this horse has a big rep to live up to.

This.

just for the lol ers:rolleyes:

UrbanSea

Delighted he won.
That'll shut up the clowns over on the racing post forums saying this horse is hyped to the max. Suppose theyll say some sort of excuse for Workforce.

I didn't see the race,did he beat him comfortably?

Johner

UrbanSea wrote: »

Delighted he won.
That'll shut up the clowns over on the racing post forums saying this horse is hyped to the max. Suppose theyll say some sort of excuse for Workforce.

I didn't see the race,did he beat him comfortably?

Picked him up really well in the end.

Goldcupfav

Johner wrote: »

Picked him up really well in the end.

http://horses.sportinglife.com/Video/Racing/0,27770,430460_3,00.html

Race in full!

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

Delighted he won.
That'll shut up the clowns over on the racing post forums saying this horse is hyped to the max. Suppose theyll say some sort of excuse for Workforce.

I didn't see the race,did he beat him comfortably?

It was only half a length but i'd say he'd beat him again even at a mile and a half
. Looked to me like he like he had him covered and just found it hard to get out to challenge

UrbanSea

Alas,people blaming Jimmy Fortune.
Others blaming Moore for taking it up too soon.
They can't acknowledge an Irish trained winner.

hucklebuck

He did it ok, not breathtakingly won less than a length, thought Workforce went a bit early.

As for Bellybuster with his rolleyes :rolleyes:. Given how little was in, the form of Stoute yard, O Briens being in good form and the ground being a touch too quick for Workforce I would not be surprised if it's not reversed next time.

hucklebuck

Abdullah's racing manager said he thought the ground was just on the quick side and they would be going back up to 1m4.

hucklebuck

Goldcupfav wrote: »

http://horses.sportinglife.com/Video/Racing/0,27770,430460_3,00.html

Race in full!

Cheers mate, I did not realise you could do this, the quality is better than the Bet365 replays.

UrbanSea

hucklebuck wrote: »

He did it ok, not breathtakingly won less than a length, thought Workforce went a bit early.

As for Bellybuster with his rolleyes :rolleyes:. Given how little was in, the form of Stoute yard, O Briens being in good form and the ground being a touch too quick for Workforce I would not be surprised if it's not reversed next time.

Hucklebuck look at the form of Stoute's stable for the last two years. If he didn't have Workforce last season we would have heard no end aout how poor he was. It's the same this season,lay the life out of his horses who are favourites in handicaps.

Lads go to the article on the Eclipse on racingpost.com read the comments by a Michael Green,I have never seen a bigger clown in my life. He seems to deny Ballydoyle any time they win.
Was on all week saying Workforce would piss it. Now he says it's a terrible group 1 and So You Think won't win another group 1 in Europe. What a ****ing dope

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

Hucklebuck look at the form of Stoute's stable for the last two years. If he didn't have Workforce last season we would have heard no end aout how poor he was. It's the same this season,lay the life out of his horses who are favourites in handicaps.

Lads go to the article on the Eclipse on racingpost.com read the comments by a Michael Green,I have never seen a bigger clown in my life. He seems to deny Ballydoyle any time they win.
Was on all week saying Workforce would piss it. Now he says it's a terrible group 1 and So You Think won't win another group 1 in Europe. What a ****ing dope

Don't mind those dopes the best horse won and it was a great race between two top class horses . Workforce ran his race look at the speed he was travelling at towards the end of the race , he didn't tie up like SYT did at Ascot . Had to laugh at Heffernans comment " It was a nice pace and it was just like a piece of work with a good horse leading me ".

UrbanSea

Haha I was about to say the same thing. Making workforce sound like a decent horse back home that he would just pick off on the gallops

Harry Angstrom

No quibbles. Best horse won on the day but I thought Workforce ran a cracker. I expected Moore to commit early to try to draw the sting out of So You Think and that's exactly what he tried to do. Anybody who criticises the tactics used with Confront/Workforce is talking through their pocket in my opinion. Workforce is probably a better horse over 12 furlongs on softish ground but fair dues to So You Think today.

smartaform

You gotta love the way SYT knuckled down, moved up to Workforce and eyeballed him, then clicked another gear...
Personanlly, I think he'd be Aidans best bet at winning the Breeders Cup Classic.

mr.jingle

hucklebuck wrote: »

He did it ok, not breathtakingly won less than a length, thought Workforce went a bit early.

As for Bellybuster with his rolleyes :rolleyes:. Given how little was in, the form of Stoute yard, O Briens being in good form and the ground being a touch too quick for Workforce I would not be surprised if it's not reversed next time.

Should them excuses not have been used in backing SYT at that price? You say Stoute's bad form, AOB's good form yet you go against that and laugh at someone elses opinion just like Baraca whereas all the options pointed at a SYT win! The race today was set up for SYT he didn't have to make his own running like last time and was well ridden by Seamie and really picked up well. Maybe next time Workforce might get by So You Think but today he was a siting duck and i think SYT will be even better over over 12 furlongs the way he finished today but IMO Workforce will have to come from behind like Rewilding did if he's to beat SYT

UrbanSea

I hope Seamie keeps the ride on So You Think btw. I hate to see Moore riding Coolmore horses.

Harry Angstrom

UrbanSea wrote: »

I hope Seamie keeps the ride on So You Think btw. I hate to see Moore riding Coolmore horses.

I'm not quite sure what to make of Aidan O'Brien's comments after the race about future plans for So You Think. He was talking about quarantine issues regarding the possibility of sending SYT back to Australia for the Cox Plate later in the year. I find it puzzling that they want to go back there seeing as he's already proven himself in Oz. I would've thought that the Juddmonte International and/or Leopardstown Champion Stakes followed by the Arc and a possible trip to the Breeders Cup would be the logical progression for him?

Or maybe now that he's got a proper European 10f Group 1 race in the bag, Coolmore might want to retire him as quickly as possible like they did with Haradasun after he won the Queen Anne?

UrbanSea

Im not sure,I was surprised about him mentioning the Cox plate too. One things for certain,his fee in Australia is going to be far higher than here. For example,high chaparral stands for 25000 euro or 99000 dollars in Oz,maybe they want as many big wins as possible for him there

Harry Angstrom

Maybe. I've just been checking his price for the Arc and he's a best priced 9/2 shot, which seems pretty skinny seeing as Aidan's been talking about sending him back to Australia. Considering the Coolmore team also have Pour Moi for the Arc, it might make more sense to keep the two of them apart.

UrbanSea

They often have a few good shots for the Arc though. Soldier of Fortune and Duke of Marmalade running in the same one comes to mind

Harry Angstrom

They'll have St Nicholas Abbey as well though, and possibly Treasure Beach and even Await The Dawn, and if you're to believe them, they're also going to run Fame And Glory although if he was my horse I'd be sending him to the Irish St Leger and then calling it a day for this season.

UrbanSea

Ah didn't think of St Nic. DouvtnTB or Await the Dawn will go,I think there below top group 1 level,I'd fancy them for America

hucklebuck

mr.jingle wrote: »

Should them excuses not have been used in backing SYT at that price? You say Stoute's bad form, AOB's good form yet you go against that and laugh at someone elses opinion just like Baraca whereas all the options pointed at a SYT win! The race today was set up for SYT he didn't have to make his own running like last time and was well ridden by Seamie and really picked up well. Maybe next time Workforce might get by So You Think but today he was a siting duck and i think SYT will be even better over over 12 furlongs the way he finished today but IMO Workforce will have to come from behind like Rewilding did if he's to beat SYT

Dunno if you read my post I said "He did it ok, not breathtakingly won less than a length, thought Workforce went a bit early"

At no point did I laugh at Bellybusters opinion, I thought it was not as resounding as he made it out to be and I gave my reasons why I would not be surprised if Workforce turned the tables.

For my money Workforce would beat him over 1m4.

rounding tattenham Corner

UrbanSea wrote: »

Hucklebuck look at the form of Stoute's stable for the last two years. If he didn't have Workforce last season we would have heard no end aout how poor he was. It's the same this season,lay the life out of his horses who are favourites in handicaps.

Lads go to the article on the Eclipse on racingpost.com read the comments by a Michael Green,I have never seen a bigger clown in my life. He seems to deny Ballydoyle any time they win.
Was on all week saying Workforce would piss it. Now he says it's a terrible group 1 and So You Think won't win another group 1 in Europe. What a ****ing dope

you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about British reporters, as i read loads of British articles on the Eclipse and most said it was on of the great races. But you found one article to suit your "they are all anti coolmore\ballydoyle agenda" keep politics out of Horse racing thanks.

I though workforce ran a perfect race, but over 10f you can run that race anyway you like and so you think will win, over 12f i think workforce would need a little give in the ground so he still has a chance of keeping the Arc with October ground.

TheMilkyPirate

UrbanSea wrote: »

Lads go to the article on the Eclipse on racingpost.com read the comments by a Michael Green,I have never seen a bigger clown in my life. He seems to deny Ballydoyle any time they win.
Was on all week saying Workforce would piss it. Now he says it's a terrible group 1 and So You Think won't win another group 1 in Europe. What a ****ing dope

Michael green is a troll, He's always at it and racing post is full of them.

mr.jingle wrote: »

Should them excuses not have been used in backing SYT at that price? You say Stoute's bad form, AOB's good form yet you go against that and laugh at someone elses opinion just like Baraca whereas all the options pointed at a SYT win! The race today was set up for SYT he didn't have to make his own running like last time and was well ridden by Seamie and really picked up well. Maybe next time Workforce might get by So You Think but today he was a siting duck and i think SYT will be even better over over 12 furlongs the way he finished today but IMO Workforce will have to come from behind like Rewilding did if he's to beat SYT

I didn't laugh at someone elses opinion i laughed cause he said it was like buying money which it ain't. Easy to say that it is now after the race so don't try that one.

kfallon

As an aside to the race itself I was disgusted to see Seamie Heffernan decline an autograph to a young racegoer as they were coming out for the Eclipse. Now the kid needs a good slap too for wanting his autograph but it made my blood boil. Ryan Moore had no problems signing one for the lad. Seamie should be thinking his lucky stars every day of his life, nothing but an average jockey (at best) but yet has a CV that other jockeys with twice his ability can only dream about. Yet he always looks like a narky little shit and the whole 'Drumbeat' affair last year shows exactly how much of a prick he is.

And for the record I backed SYT (and Misty For Me the previous week and Irish Guineas) but because these horses are high quality and any half decent jockey would have won on them.

UrbanSea

rounding tattenham Corner wrote: »

you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about British reporters, as i read loads of British articles on the Eclipse and most said it was on of the great races. But you found one article to suit your "they are all anti coolmore\ballydoyle agenda" keep politics out of Horse racing thanks.

I though workforce ran a perfect race, but over 10f you can run that race anyway you like and so you think will win, over 12f i think workforce would need a little give in the ground so he still has a chance of keeping the Arc with October ground.

What are you on about? I never once mentioned anything about any British reporters.