wanted people to join a insurance club

browning 12 bore

hi all there lads if any one out there wants to join a insurance for all your peace of mind when your out and about covers from dogs to guns and all your other shooting equipment, its a lot cheaper to join in a group than a single member so if your interested let me know
pm me if you wish to know more

bunny shooter

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72896044&postcount=16

If it's as good as the last bit of advice you had :rolleyes: why not post it here?

Why doe we have to PM you

browning 12 bore

to get insurance for when your out shooting and its not advice:p it is actuall fact any one can see its cheaper in a group :eek: and you have to pm me if you want to join thats all bunny shooter just trying to save people few pound this day and age we cant all be sitting back smoking a cuban cigar and sitting in there library drinking a brandy :D:D:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

95% of Hunters have insurance, farmers have it anyway as part of their farm insurance/public liability.
Sports shooters have insurance as it is irresponsible to go without it.

Any newcomers to shooting I can't recommend IFA Countryside enough.

pedroeibar1

browning 12 bore wrote: »

hi all there lads if any one out there wants to join a insurance for all your peace of mind when your out and about covers from dogs to guns and all your other shooting equipment, its a lot cheaper to join in a group than a single member so if your interested let me know
pm me if you wish to know more

Health Warning - Fools and money are easily parted.


It is an offense for anyone to become involved in arranging insurance unless they have been approved under the Financial Regulatory system. European Communities (Insurance Mediation) Regulations 2005
In my opinion the above type of post is neither helpful nor appropriate.
P.

Sparks

I think he meant that if a group of shooters got together, they could get a group discount from CAI or some such insurance provider pedro; rather than providing the insurance themselves, which is (rightly) regulated, as you pointed out.

But why doing that by PM would be a good idea, I don't know; sure, some personal details you wouldn't want to post here in the clear, but why would PMing them to a stranger be any safer?

pedroeibar1

Sparks, I don’t want to prolong this but ........
legally, anyone who offers to arrange insurance is classed as an ‘intermediary’ and must be licensed by the Central Bank. There also are Data Protection issues that would need to be addressed. If the OP is not an authorised intermediary he is wasting everyone’s time because none of the insurers would touch him with a bargepole. I know nothing about him, but I certainly would not give a complete stranger all my personal details and some of my cash! If a club asks its secretary to obtain insurance, he/she collates data and the task is passed to an authorized intermediary who then contacts insurers.

There already are far too many ‘unknowns’ about liability insurance / indemnification and posts like the opening one on this thread do nothing but add to the confusion. CAI and NARGC both have shied away from giving a direct answer to clarify their positions on liability protection, as to what is covered, when and by whom - no doubt the old dictum of 'Navem non movere' on a nice little earner. For example see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72735721&postcount=9
and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72742811&postcount=11

Rs,
P.

Sparks

So where does a club availing of the group rate in CAI stand pedro?
I can't imagine that they're legally classed as an intermediary in the insurance business - otherwise every NARGC club and all the target shooting clubs that get that group rate would all need to be licenced by the central bank!

cavan shooter

We have the IFA, the CAI insurance and the NARGC compensation fund. How many more is needed. I have yet to hear real life hassel from people who have had cause to claim. I know two lads that both had claims through NARGC and these were in excess of 40 k and no issues. The CAI by all accounts is the same. Moneywise all around €50 for good cover. Do we want to go down the route of cheap insurance only to find that your not covered because

the moon wasnt aligned with neptune and your hunter wellies were seconds from a market stall in Clougher and not from Arnotts and the gun you were using was a russian gun and hadnt got a re proof certificate as requird by sub section 1.0001a of the 40 page clause booklet in your policy

Pay the €50 its cheaper than a nights drinking;)

pedroeibar1

You are missing the point. Firstly, insurance is a ‘grudge purchase’ and people buy it only because they need it, not because they want it. For that reason few actually read and understand what they have bought and what they are covered for. If they did, I believe that both CAI and NARGC would lose many members and that is why there is a lack of clarity from them.

Cavanshooter makes a very valid comment in quoting the moons of Jupiter– he actually proves my point by quoting claim denial. Multiple insurance policies are an easy way out for some insurers. For example, Joe Jnr. lives at home with his parents, and has NARGC membership. He fires through a hedge, shoots a friend who loses an eye. Clear case, NARGC pay out, as would CAI in same circumstances. Now, assume that Joe Senior, his Da, does the same thing. However, he is a member of the IFA, also has insurance on the farm & family home, and also is in NARGC. It is highly likely that NARGC will pass the buck to IFA who will pass the buck to the house insurer and the merry cycle begins. Common sense dictates that all insurers should share the cost of the claim, but common sense rarely prevails, and the friend has to sue Joe Senior who then joins NARGC & IFA & House insurer. There is an almost identical case dragging through the Courts at present.

The last example is compounded by a TOTAL LACK OF CLARITY from both NARGC and CAI as to what they actually cover. It has been rumoured that both provide ‘excess’ type cover when another insurance is in place. What I mean by that : assume I accidentally shoot and kill someone. My house policy covers me for liability up to €10 million as does my CAI policy. I am sued by the widow, who is awarded 12 million. I am supposed to claim first from my house insurer who are supposed to pay 10 million and the excess 2 million is paid by CAI’s insurance.

There are three issues raised by you and cavanshooter (a) CAI / NARGC (b) intermediary and (c) indemnity.
CAI has a group insurance scheme – members automatically obtain insurance and that policy is negotiated by an intermediary with an insurer.
NARGC does not provide insurance; it provides an indemnity from a fund. For that reason it is outside the insurance regulations for financial supervision, etc. so an intermediary is irrelevant. (NARGC appear to follow what is ‘best practice’ in insurance for the management of their fund, a lot to be said positively for what they have done.)

Intermediary – most insurers other than ‘direct’ insurers will deal with their customers only via an intermediary; that affords the insurer a level of protection, as it is the duty of the intermediary to explain policy terms, conditions, etc. An intermediary has to be licensed for the type of insurance sold, so a life guy probably is not licensed for household cover and vice-a-versa. The secretary of a club if asked by its members can offer business to an insurer on behalf of those members. Unless authorized by the Central Bank, he cannot advertise and ask for business and then go to an insurer for ‘a deal’. (This was proposed by the OP.)

Indemnity All policies have a clause forbidding ‘double indemnity’ i.e. the same risk cannot be fully indemnified by two separate insurers so you cannot profit from a claim. Your home policy covers you when shooting, as does your CAI or NARGC membership. Any one of those providing you with cover( - if you have several providers) – could use multiple insurance as a delaying factor in settling a claim.
Rs
P.

Tackleberrywho

IFA Countryside insure you with FBD.

Justashotgun

I been insured with SACS for the last two years, great cover and very reasonably priced for the all inclusive cover you get.

http://www.sacs.org.uk/

deeksofdoom

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

IFA Countryside insure you with FBD.

I've looked into this recently and although I'm far from a fan of the NARGC their compensation fund is probably the best of them all. There is a €250,000 payout for loss of a limb, etc.... whereas its only €30,000 approx with CAI and FAI.

Even though the NARGC is a compensation fund, its underwritten by an insurance company in case they get cleaned out, they have to be otherwise the govrnment wouldn't leave them operate.

The only thing wrong with the NARGC is the penny pinching and politics that goes on the county boards/federations.

You'ld be far better off talking to an NARGC affiliated club first before you decide to go out on your own with CAI or the FAI.

browning 12 bore

i not selling insurance there fella trying to get a group together if you read it instead of going on about insurance selling

Tackleberrywho

deeksofdoom wrote: »

I've looked into this recently and although I'm far from a fan of the NARGC their compensation fund is probably the best of them all. There is a €250,000 payout for loss of a limb, etc.... whereas its only €30,000 approx with CAI and FAI.

Even though the NARGC is a compensation fund, its underwritten by an insurance company in case they get cleaned out, they have to be otherwise the govrnment wouldn't leave them operate.

The only thing wrong with the NARGC is the penny pinching and politics that goes on the county boards/federations.

You'ld be far better off talking to an NARGC affiliated club first before you decide to go out on your own with CAI or the FAI.

As a MNSCI members we are covered by IFA Countryside Group scheme, several hundred members to date.

homerhop

The level of payment you recieve from the NARGC is subject to the amount of money in the compensation fund and also on what level they deem the claim is worth. Plus if you already have a personal accident policy through any other sport or your morgtage etc the NARGC will not pay out.
At the moment the IFA are looking into tailor making their cover to suit individual needs as well as providing better payments during the recovery time as this is often a lot longer than the time you spend in hospital. Their cover also spreads over into other sports and aspects of life, so even though you take it out as a shooter you have far greater cover than the NARGC compensation fund supplies. Take your time and look at what each policy has to offer, dont be fooled by offers of large sums as paper never refused ink.

Sparks

browning 12 bore wrote: »

i not selling insurance there fella trying to get a group together if you read it instead of going on about insurance selling

If you read what he wrote browning, what you're doing does count as insurance selling because you're soliciting people to join the group, rather than the group being together already and deciding to go seek insurance (as is the case with a club).

Antoennis

Justashotgun wrote: »

I been insured with SACS for the last two years, great cover and very reasonably priced for the all inclusive cover you get.

http://www.sacs.org.uk/

I came across this crowd at the Moira game fair waiting on a statement of benefits from them for the July issue of our e-zine. Will be interesting to compare all of them.