magical digital aerials

channelsurfer2

http://www.newrossstandard.ie/news/if-you-get-a-signal-now-youll-be-fine-2807631.html

saw this online today and made me chuckle the part about the digital aerial installer......no wonder there is so much confusion when people spout muck like that...

Randyleprechaun

Unbelievable.....what a load of ****e talk!!!!!

PressTheButton

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

http://www.newrossstandard.ie/news/if-you-get-a-signal-now-youll-be-fine-2807631.html

saw this online today and made me chuckle the part about the digital aerial installer......no wonder there is so much confusion when people spout muck like that...

Ray Corcoran from Wexford electronics retailers Joyces Expert:

'We've a lot of people coming in to us and asking questions about Saorview. They seem to be confused..'

They'll certainly be confused if they heed the advice of the

local firm that installs aerials

kevmol88

The digital aerial myth is alive and well here in Kerry-conmen

Vince Cable

PressTheButton wrote: »

They'll certainly be confused going out of the shop.

Believe the 'muck' was spouted by an (unnamed, pity) 'local firm who install aerials', not the guy in the shop.

PressTheButton

Vince Cable wrote: »

Believe the 'muck' was spouted by an (unnamed, pity) 'local firm who install aerials', not the guy in the shop.

So far Ray is aware of only one brand of set-top box that is officially approved by Saorview.

Who spouted that? :rolleyes:

channelsurfer2

"
The arrival of Saorview will see an end to ' big high BBC aerials' which pepper the skyscapes throughout the county.
' There won't be any need for them any more. Digital aerials are about 3 feet high and weigh less than a pound.'"

now bet you all didnt know that.....lol

Vince Cable

PressTheButton wrote: »

So far Ray is aware of only one brand of set-top box that is officially approved for Saorview

Who spouted that? :rolleyes:

Poor Ray just needs to make himself more aware, he's (probably) not trying to mislead anyone. . .

PressTheButton

Vince Cable wrote: »

Poor Ray just needs to make himself more aware, he's (probably) not trying to mislead anyone. . .

probably Fair comment.

PressTheButton

Also fair to say that non-expert DTT readers of the New Ross Standard article will be more confused after reading it. Author/'journalist' unattributed. 'News' or advertising? Hmmmm...

The Cush

From the article - terrestrial aerials vs. digital aerials :rolleyes:

He said terrestrial aerials will suffice for many for another year. 'But RTÉ will pull the plug on that in October 2012. After that you will need a digital aerial.'

No wonder the people of Wexford are confused. Are they trying to scare people into installing a new aerial?

' There won't be any need for them any more. Digital aerials are about 3 feet high and weigh less than a pound.'

Digital Aerial BMI

The complete article

'If you get a signal now, you'll be fine'
Tuesday June 28 2011

PEOPLE WHO already have a 'fairly strong' TV3 signal on their televisions should have no problem picking up Saorview without any adjustment to their roof aerials.

That's the feeling of Ray Corcoran from Wexford electronics retailers Joyces Expert, who have been inundated with queries about the new service.

'We've a lot of people coming in to us and asking questions about Saorview. They seem to be confused, some seem to think it comes on satellite,' he said.

A Saorview decoder hooked up to a television in an area where RTÉ and TV3 channels are already picked up on a terrestrial aerial should 'work perfectly'.

So far Ray is aware of only one brand of set-top box that is officially approved by Saorview. That box is a ' Walker' and retails for €99.99.

He notes that there are other combination satellite receivers and freeview receivers in stock which are not Saorview approved.

Of course, new televisions are nearly all Saorview compatible and have decoders built in.

'All of the new Sony and Samsung televisions are compatible. In fact, 99.9 per cent of all new televisions will receive the Saorview signal,' said Ray.

While existing aerials will likely pick up the Saorview channels, other may need some slight realignment.

However, one local firm that installs aerials recommends that people should really erect a digital aerial to ensure that they are getting the best reception.

'I would tell people that they need a proper digital aerial. People will tell you they don't, and they can get a good signal, but I think down the road they will get trouble,' said a spokesman for the company, who added that a brand new digital aerial fully fitted should cost about €90.

'Signals can be funny. Some people will say that they are getting a good enough picture, but it's not optimum unless they have the digital aerial. What's the point in spending €600 on a new television if you aren't going to get the full benefit from it?' he said.

He said terrestrial aerials will suffice for many for another year. 'But RTÉ will pull the plug on that in October 2012. After that you will need a digital aerial.'

The arrival of Saorview will see an end to ' big high BBC aerials' which pepper the skyscapes throughout the county.

' There won't be any need for them any more. Digital aerials are about 3 feet high and weigh less than a pound.'

http://www.newrossstandard.ie/news/if-you-get-a-signal-now-youll-be-fine-2807631.html

PressTheButton

That last bit's a classic. Made me laugh too!

St Senan

The Cush wrote: »

From the article - terrestrial aerials vs. digital aerials :rolleyes:



No wonder the people of Wexford are confused. Are they trying to scare people into installing a new aerial?

I along with a few other local installers were contacted by the same newspaper to put in an add in the same section as this Saorview article I was quoted €85+vat. I told the sales man that all he is going to get is a few guys some of them we never heard of before down here in Wexford spouting **** and undercutting each other. It was the same last year with the Echo Newspaper doing an article on the DSO.

Johnboy1951

However, one local firm that installs aerials recommends that people should really erect a digital aerial to ensure that they are getting the best reception.

It really is a pity that this 'local firm' was not named ...... and shamed!

Try telling friends the truth after they read that tripe!
You will not be believed ..... unless in the business.

Mike 1972

Digital aerials are about 3 feet high and weigh less than a pound

What are these strange units you speak of ?

Machinehead

Came across this much better informed article form the Enniscorthy Guardian:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html

Digifriendly

Machinehead wrote: »

Came across this much better informed article form the Enniscorthy Guardian:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html

Excellent article. No mention yet of Saorview PVRs on the market - only idtvs and set top boxes. Anyone any info. on any impending PVRs?

STB

Machinehead wrote: »

Came across this much better informed article form the Enniscorthy Guardian:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html

Hang on a sec, was that somebody who wrote a coherent piece about Saorview and Combo boxes......

Couldnt possibly be. Okay hands up who wrote that article unde pen names.

They should reprint that in one of O'Reilly's national rags.

Machinehead

Enniscorthy Guardian = INM

St Senan

Machinehead wrote: »

Came across this much better informed article form the Enniscorthy Guardian:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html

The Enniscorthy Guardian, The Gorey Guardian, The Wexford people and the NewRoss Standard are all the same paper the exact same 4 page write up/Article on Saorview is in the Four papers. There is a Installers advertising among the Article a couple of them we never heard of before. So there will be a lot of Price comparisons and under cutting going on. €90 one of them said to install an Aerial. I can only imagine where he puts Aerials.

STB

Machinehead wrote: »

Enniscorthy Guardian = INM

Oh I know, The Wexford People too - you dont know how difficult it is to get The Irish Times in the town! Media plurality, nah we dont need that!!!

NewHillel

STB wrote: »

Hang on a sec, was that somebody who wrote a coherent piece about Saorview and Combo boxes......

Couldnt possibly be. Okay hands up who wrote that article unde pen names.

They should reprint that in one of O'Reilly's national rags.

It was spot on, the type of information that the regular punter needs. It nails the advantage of Compo boxes - one remote for all stations! In many cases that single fact outweighs the disadvantages.

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

Came across this much better informed article form the Enniscorthy Guardian:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html

Well researched and written article, accurate information. The second last paragraph is the best summary I've read on an assistance scheme. They get the aerial info spot-on

In some cases a new aerial is also needed; in most an existing TV aerial will do the trick but may need to be realigned.

Well done and thanks to the 2 journalists - Anne Marie O'Connor and Finan Lambe. I'm not surprised there wasn't a name attached to the first article.

GOING DIGITAL

Saorview will replace the standard TV service by the end of next year. Anne Marie O'connor and Finan Lambe look at what this means.

Switch to Saorview... and what it means for you ALMOST 600,000 Irish households still receive some TV service through an aerial – indoors or on the roof. More than half of these rely exclusively on an aerial, and 28 per cent of that total are in the over-55s category.

The statistics paint a picture of an Irish TV landscape that, in the digital age, still leans heavily on the old analogue service. All will have to change, however, when, as EU policy dictates, Ireland's analogue signal is switched off by the end of next year. In a nutshell, this means that if you currently receive your RTÉ and TV3 channels via an aerial, and have no Sky, UPC or equivalent service, you will no longer be able to view Irish channels after 2012 without buying a set top box or special TV.

Ireland's digital replacement for the analogue service in place since 1961 is called Saorview. While the switchover isn't necessary until the end of next year, most of the population can receive Saorview at the moment, as the service has gone live.

Saor means 'free', but unfortunately there is a cost involved in moving from analogue to digital. To get Saorview you need to either buy a TV with a Saorview decoder built in, or buy a Saorview settop box to use with your existing TV. In some cases a new aerial is also needed; in most an existing TV aerial will do the trick but may need to be realigned. Once you purchase your set-top Saorview box or special Saorview TV the service is subscription-free, although you will continue to pay your TV licence.

At the moment Saorview set-top boxes can cost up to €100, but this price is likely to fall as the limited range available grows. In the UK, where Freeview has been running for a number of years, settop boxes have tumbled in price and can now be had for less than stg£20.

Saorview will not work with Freeview boxes but some generic Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) boxes will do the job. These are usually cheaper than the official Saorview receivers but lack some of the functions. If you go down this route, consult an expert for advice.

Saorview will offer crystal clear reception of all the usual Irish channels: RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, and TG4, plus RTÉ Two in high definition (HD); RTÉ Plus 1 (RTÉ One with one hour's delay); a kids' TV channel called RTÉjr; a rolling news channel called RTÉ News Now; a fancier version of Aertel called RTÉ Digital Aertel; and all 10 RTÉ radio channels, including the digital ones. Other channels are provided for, but will only be added according to demand.

Saorview will not give access to non-Irish TV services such as the BBC and ITV channels. If you don't have Sky, UPC or any of the other pay TV services, and you want the UK free-to-air channels, you will need Freesat (requiring a satellite dish and box) or Freeview, the UK equivalent of Saorview, requiring a separate set-top box or TV with built-in Freeview decoder, and available in some border and east coast areas via bigger aerials taking advantage of digital 'spillover' from Wales or the North, much like the analogue spillover that for many years gave Irish viewers free access to UK channels through aerials on the roof. There are 'combo' set-top boxes available which will enable viewers to see the Irish channels through Saorview and UK channels through Freesat. They require a feed from both a satellite dish and a TV aerial but give the advantage of just one remote, and one box, for the two different services.

It is estimated that between 75 and 80 per cent of households in Ireland have a pay-TV subscription, which, on the surface, would suggest that the digital switchover will have limited impact. However, the statistics don't take account of the large proportion of the population who have two, three or more TV sets, in kitchens and bedrooms. Unless these users have Sky multiroom or an equivalent pay-TV service, they will need to either change their sets to Saorview approved TVs or get a Saorview set-top box for each TV, if they want to view Irish channels everwhere in the house. Alternatively, they can split the output from the Saorview box to multiple TV sets, although this will mean only a single channel can be viewed on all sets at any given time.

Cost, then, could be a significant hurdle in many households. And, for some, it could be a hurdle too difficult to overcome in the current economic climate. The Government is looking into subsidising digital decoders for people who cannot afford a digital decoder, are on the dole or receiving social welfare payments, but this is by no means a done deal and it's not certain that funding will be found.

By the time the analogue signal is shut down next year, most viewers will be able to tune into Irish channels with a Saorview box. However, there will be small pockets with low coverage, or none at all. Residents of these areas will be able to access Ireland's digital channels only through Saorsat, a new free-to-air digital satellite system which RTÉ is rolling out to before the 2012 analogue switch off.

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2807855.html
http://www.newrossstandard.ie/news/going-digital-2807549.html
http://www.goreyguardian.ie/news/going-digital-2808012.html

lucernarian

NewHillel wrote: »

It was spot on, the type of information that the regular punter needs. It nails the advantage of Compo boxes - one remote for all stations! In many cases that single fact outweighs the disadvantages.

Unfortunately many of the people who would appreciate the convenience and simplicity of a one remote also face the significant problem with nearly all combo boxes - when say the BBC change transponders, what does Granny Smith do to retune the channels? It can mean lots of running around for installers. At least someone could get used to using two remotes. Though for a non-saorview compatible TV, a Freesat receiver, a Saorview STB and the tv remote would all be needed. I think the occasional retune would be worth it over 3 remotes anyway!

NewHillel

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

At least someone could get used to using two remotes. Though for a non-saorview compatible TV, a Freesat receiver, a Saorview STB and the tv remote would all be needed. I think the occasional retune would be worth it over 3 remotes anyway!

Absolutely, for many people. The granny in our family, now sady deceased, never could manage multiple remotes. In our house I use a Harmony Remote to control Sky, Freesat and Saorview. The "others" still think this is too complex so I'm thinking about a Combo Box for the other rooms. (I refuse to pay Sky for multiroom!)

I think the issue of channels changing frequencies is talked up too much. Firstly, it happens infrequently. Secondly, it only takes a (very) small amount of technical savvy to retune, should it be necessary.

lucernarian

If the grannies can't manage two remotes, they wouldn't be able to manage the retuning either. And you'd have to tell them the details over the phone and possibly how to access the menu for their particular FTA box. Be it a lidl box or an old sky box (for the ITV channels). Or else arrange a call-out. Not very good for customers who won't have some channels for a day or two nor for installers who have to drive around retuning channels. There are replacement satellites on the way for 28.2 east and Astra 1N will be filling in before then with spot beam capacity over the next few months. I'd expect there will be some changes to the Freesat transponders or other FTA channels when 1N arrives and then when 2E, 2F and 2G all arrive over the next 3 years.

So if we say there will be some sort of retuning for the SD and HD variants of the core UK PSBs only every couple of years, it could be very inconvenient for people even then.

NewHillel

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If the grannies can't manage two remotes, they wouldn't be able to manage the retuning either.

Of course they couldn't, and the same applies to many of their younger descendants.

However, it is a rare family where there is no one around without even a small amount of technical savvy who could do the retuning for them. Its not difficult and the retuning details are always available from multiple sites. Also, as you point out, its only a small number of stations that wouldn't be available until they were sorted.

Gerry Wicklow

NewHillel wrote: »

I think the issue of channels changing frequencies is talked up too much. Firstly, it happens infrequently. Secondly, it only takes a (very) small amount of technical savvy to retune, should it be necessary.

I'd beg to differ. I've lost count of how many retunes I've done on the folks box this year already.
You just have to look around these fora to see how many people aren't "savvy" enough to perform such basic tasks.

NewHillel

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I'd beg to differ. I've lost count of how many retunes I've done on the folks box this year already.

The last year, or so, was a bit hectic, all right.

To my recollection there were two changes that meant some of the main UK Channels actually went blank on boxes other than Sky and Freesat. These were the BBC Frequency Changes in Oct 2010 and the BBC1 HD/BBC HD Frequency Changes in June 2011.
In over eight years using generic satellite boxes these are the only instances I recall that any of the main UK channels were lost until a manual retune.

Of course, new channels always have to be added manually if you use a Combo box. In the last year I had to manually add ITV HD 1 (April 2010), BBC 1 HD (November 2010) and C4 HD (April 2011)

Gerry Wicklow

There was several changes to the lesser channels too. The folks are really into "Crossing over" and such like on CBS. If only Astra would leave things alone for a while :rolleyes:

St Senan

About 2 year ago the CH4 family of channels moved TP's about 3 or 4 times in 6 months a bloody nightmare it was for installers. Most of us don't supply and install generic FTA boxes any more.

lawhec

Re: several remotes. I really do wonder sometimes how some of us coped in the 1990's with a separate remote for Sky (analogue) and also one for a VCR?

watty

TVs had remotes then too. Even in 1950s some TVs had remotes (cabled usually).

There was even a 1930s US radio with motor driven tuning for pre set channels and a wireless remote (using a low power radio transmitter!).

I know PLENTY of older people inc pensioners that cope with multiple remotes. They do different things, so its not different to each box having its own buttons. What people don't like is going from Sky or Freesat Interactive to manually tuning streams and scanning /adding channels at all. Most people of any age (a) can't do it or (b) Don't want to have to re-delete all the junk channels that reappear.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

What people don't like is going from Sky or Freesat Interactive ...

Indeed. What most non-Sky consumers want is to have all their channels, UK or Irish, on a single EPG with a single remote. For all practical purposes that means either:

• Sky
• Cable
• Combo box.

watty wrote: »

...manually tuning streams and scanning /adding channels at all.

Of course they don't - but this is required very infrequently for the main UK channels, when using a generic FTA or Combo box.

watty wrote: »

Most people of any age (a) can't do it.

All it takes is a few simple steps that anyone with a modicum of knowledge can do.
Why all the attempts to make it appear difficult?
What you should be promoting is customer education - i.e. insisting that ISAA members provide their customer with a written set of steps so that they can re-tune their equipment, should they need to. Its not like there are that many steps involved!

watty wrote: »

(b) Don't want to have to re-delete all the junk channels that reappear.

Where is the "all" coming from. When channels are added properly only a small number of unwanted channels, which can easily be deleted, might reappear.

To the non-initiated reading this thread...

If you can set up a new TV, i.e. tune in the channels for your area, you'll have no problem re-tuning a Combi Box, when this is necessary. Or, if you're with Sky and you've added additional channels, such as UTV, to "Oher Channels".




Practically, you can expect to have to do small changes to your Combi (or generic FTA Aldi/LIDL/B&Q) Box a couple of times of year to:

• restore (a small number of) channels that have 'gone missing',
• or to add new channels.

When you do this you may see some additional channels (on the same satellite transponder), that you may have deleted previously.

You may consider this effort not worthwhile. (We all agree its a pain in the ar$e.) If so you're better off sticking with Sky or cable if you want a single remote and EPG. Otherwise you should consider Saorview and Freesat with two diferent remotes and two different boxes for recording Irish and UK channels.

If money is not an issue, I would go with Sky every time. If you are on a very tight budget I'd go for the Combi box - provided someone in your circle has a small level of technical knowledge, for when that infamous retune is required. Unless I was very confident in what I was doing, I am, I would go with an Irish supplier who understood the Irish situation.

I have no connection with Tony who posts here often, but I am very impressed with his knowledge and willingness to share this. I would be very inclined to purchase from him.

NewHillel

lawhec wrote: »

Re: several remotes. I really do wonder sometimes how some of us coped in the 1990's with a separate remote for Sky (analogue) and also one for a VCR?

Personally, I wouldn't mind - I'm looking at a chair with six remotes(TV/SKY/Freesat/DVD Recorder/BluRAy/Amplifier), right now. However, Sky upped the game in this area, and rightly so. People now expect a more user friendly setup, and expectations can only continue to grow.

In any case, many users are not comfortable with technology and want something that 'just works'. It's a real shame that RTE didn't work with Freesat to provide a FTV solution for Ireland. It could have been a win win all round and provided a real counterweight to the two dominant players.

lawhec

NewHillel wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't mind - I'm looking at a chair with six remotes(TV/SKY/Freesat/DVD Recorder/BluRAy/Amplifier), right now. However, Sky upped the game in this area, and rightly so. People now expect a more user friendly setup, and expectations can only continue to grow.

Sky's remote integration is good, though it doesn't cover all TV's (not mine I'm afraid) and most Freeview STB remote controls in the UK don't have such integration. I've found that One-For-All remote controls beyond the very basic are very good for day to day use if you just need the one remote.

NewHillel wrote: »

In any case, many users are not comfortable with technology and want something that 'just works'. It's a real shame that RTE didn't work with Freesat to provide a FTV solution for Ireland. It could have been a win win all round and provided a real counterweight to the two dominant players.

This argument has been done to death here - the main problems off the top of my head are (a) RTÉ NL would have to pay their own transponder costs, (b) Freesat has never been officially promoted outside of the UK, nor is it intended to be, (c) Freesat from its inception been a FTA platform, not a FTV one - the Humax STBs have CI slots but no other Freesat STBs AFAIK have one (d) FTV is not a very effective way of geographical control, which was easily learned by the UK terrestrials when they were involved in the Solus card scheme.

There's nothing to stop a manufacturer designing a combined DVB-T(2) & DVB-S(2) receiver specifically for the Irish market, but would need to be subject to licencing from both Saorview & Freesat to at least avail of the latter's compressed EPG. The only receiver I know off the top of my head which has combined twin DTT & twin satellite tuners is the MyStar receiver for the Austar pay tv service in Australia.