For everything that was done badly, what was done right?

Lustrum

Forgive my ignorance but my grasp of economics isn't good enough to understand all this.

The news this morning reported that the Greeks are going on a 2 day nationwide strike against planned reforms so that they don't go bankrupt. The closest thing we get is 300 angry parents complaining that they'll have to start paying for the school bus (something else I just presumed that had to be done).

So how come we aren't going on 2 day strikes? Is our economic situation not as bad as people are saying?

Nody

General attitude of people honestly.

Also keep in mind that while Ireland may be corrupt Greece has been beyond third world level of corruption since WW2 and hence people are more used to be out and complaining about it.

eco2live

Because apart from the housing and mortgage situation, Ireland's public sector has not had any real pain yet in comparison. Its coming and wait and see then. Our private sector is fragmented and does not have a real voice.

Its mainly the pubic sector in Greece. Don't get me wrong I am glad that people will stand up and I will stand with them. Its not the workers of Ireland who caused this mess but we have to pay for it. In years to come Ireland will be the benchmark on how not to handle a crisis.

RichardAnd

I don't think things here are as bad a Greece, though that's just my opinion. It seems the Greeks have done little to sort themselves out whilst we have at least tried to get our act together. Granted, this may not have been in the best way thus far but how and ever...

I think the reason there has been no real public action on cuts, taxes, bank bailouts or just the general state of things has more to do with Irish mind set than economic factors. You see before there can be action on anything, there has to be some sort of unity and that's what's lacking. On top of this, the government and their spin masters (the so called media) have been activley pitting one sector of society against the other by introducing policy that affects one and not the other. The recent pension levy was a fine example of this, it didn't hit public sector workers!

Here's an example of this at work:

Jimmy lives in Athlone. He has a mortgage, two kids and a fairly decent private sector job so he's doing ok. Now let's say it's the first pay day of the year and Jimmy sees how much of a hit his salary has taken. He's naturally upset by this and he has a good whinge about it and the government at lunch before heading home that evening. However, that evening on the 6:01, RTE cough up a report along the lines of "Civil Servants bank time costs the state X million a year". So Jimmy sees this and suddenly, he grasps why his taxes are up. The Civil Servants! And that is how the public and private sector are devided; no unity, no action.

But there's more to it than that. The mass of the private sector can be further slpit up into the unemployed, the min-wage group, "them rich bastards" and so on. The list is endless but the synopsis is that there is an "every man for himself" attitude in Ireland and so long as that holds true, you will never see protests here that are anything like those in Greece.

If you want proof of this, look at the threads this place throws up. Bashing civil servants for the hell of it. Suggestions to de-humanise the unemployed. Begrudgery against farmers, doctors and any other niche. The list really is endless.

IRish people are their own worst enemy.

The bypasses and new roads.

I know people are going to say but what about bla bla that wasn't done but the is a positive thread so I am only mentioning the good things.

danbohan

mariaalice wrote: »

The bypasses and new roads.

I know people are going to say but what about bla bla that wasn't done but the is a positive thread so I am only mentioning the good things.

except we spent more on our few motorways than built the entire motorway network in France, clever that .

Sleepy

So how come we aren't going on 2 day strikes? Is our economic situation not as bad as people are saying?

PS workers will be out on strike once the government really starts to get to grips with our spending. We've already seen some small scale protests by them. We can expect more of the same from the OAP's when their pensions are cut (as they have to be, tbh).

The private sector will just moan about it in the lunchroom / pub tbh. Without the unions or their politicians to protect them from the reality of the current climate, ordinary workers can't afford to lose the days pay or put their job at risk by being seen to rock the boat.

eco2live

Bertie and FF got found out. That was good

Cookie_Monster

eco2live wrote: »

Bertie and FF got found out. That was good

but nothing was done about it and their still living free and easy so not good in my book

eco2live

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but nothing was done about it and their still living free and easy so not good in my book

Tribunal findings yet to be published. Fingers crossed

Zubeneschamali

Lustrum wrote: »

So how come we aren't going on 2 day strikes?

Maybe we just have more sense? What is a two day strike supposed to achieve?

Cannibal Ox

Lustrum wrote:

So how come we aren't going on 2 day strikes? Is our economic situation not as bad as people are saying?

I don't think its to do with apathy. I think it has to do with what people want from the future. As far as I can see, the Greek people are disgusted with their political establishment. They want rid of it, they want a new start and they want a different kind of politics and society.

I think we want to go back to the mid-2000s, minus Fianna Fail. We think we can get there through pulling our belts up and getting on with it. So we'll take the austerity, in the hope that we'll get back to a rough equivalent of where we were. Minus Fianna Fail.

Basically, you will only get strikes if there is a massive disconnect between what the politicians want and what the people want. That doesn't exist here, and even if it does in some small pockets, it is still not in any way comparable to Greece.

Lustrum

eco2live wrote: »

Tribunal findings yet to be published. Fingers crossed

Sure won't these just cost us more money but with no accountability or responsibility for the goings on.

It seems some think things will get worse rather than better.

From my own (very) lay-mans point of view, should we not just completely stop wasting money on un-necessary projects (fly-overs on the Cork south link, all ministerial junkets) and when our health and social welfare systems are sorted out, then we can start thinking about where we could spend the money that might be there to spare

ei.sdraob

mariaalice wrote: »

The bypasses and new roads.

I know people are going to say but what about bla bla that wasn't done but the is a positive thread so I am only mentioning the good things.

while the Athlone <> Galway motorway is very nice, the road network is nothing compared to the US (im after clocking up 4k miles) for example where there is huge investment going into the road network now with roadworks everywhere

dont get me started on secondary and local roads in Ireland, how hard is it to build wider roads with less turns and less blind corners? might actually save some lives

dan_d

RichardAnd wrote: »

IRish people are their own worst enemy.

It could also be said that right now the Greeks are their own worst enemy too.

They're not doing us any favours btw....their behaviour is making our eventual return to the markets a very rocky road - probably moreso than it needs to be - and we keep getting lumped in with them when statements are being made about the Eurozone.I'm with Noonan on the "WE ARE NOT GREECE" statement by now.

It's beginning to border on the deeply unfair, given what we've done to try and solve our problems compared to them....

irishh_bob

Sleepy wrote: »

PS workers will be out on strike once the government really starts to get to grips with our spending. We've already seen some small scale protests by them. We can expect more of the same from the OAP's when their pensions are cut (as they have to be, tbh).

The private sector will just moan about it in the lunchroom / pub tbh. Without the unions or their politicians to protect them from the reality of the current climate, ordinary workers can't afford to lose the days pay or put their job at risk by being seen to rock the boat.

agree about everything except cuts to pensioners , that is the one area which wont be touched as the goverment has absoulte public support for shielding pensioners from the rescession , its about the only thing that irish people completley agree on , spoiling the elderly

TommyTippee

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Maybe we just have more sense? What is a two day strike supposed to achieve?

This is the reason Ireland is 'donald-ducked'

murphaph

You see more national strikes in Greece for a couple of reasons:

1) Half the working populace works in some shape or form for the state!

2) The government there has made more serious cuts to state employees wages than in Ireland.

In Ireland we need to keep the recruitment ban in place in the PS and see GENUINE flexibility among the remaining PS staff so that they work where they are needed.

Greece has massive problems that we don't have. They don't really have a private sector of any importance. They have nothing really to build on to get out of the mess. Ireland's private sector meanwhile is recovering competitiveness and is large in proportion to the state. We can work our way out of the mess.

Zubeneschamali

TommyTippee wrote: »

This is the reason Ireland is 'donald-ducked'

I still don't get it. What specific result will this two day strike in Greece have that you'd like to see repeated here? The only rationale I've seen is that the strike will force politicians to reject the EU/IMF austerity plan. Is that what you'd like to see Ireland do?

coolbeans

danbohan wrote: »

except we spent more on our few motorways than built the entire motorway network in France, clever that .

Big claim to make without backing it up...:rolleyes:

funnyname

danbohan wrote: »

except we spent more on our few motorways than built the entire motorway network in France, clever that .

Not really a like for like comparison.

coolbeans

funnyname wrote: »

Not really a like for like comparison.

It's total bull that's what it is. How can you compare networks between two countries that are incomparable in size and in terms of the time frame and period over which their motorways were built? I hate these random BS comments so readily found all over the internet.

rumour

dan_d wrote: »

It's beginning to border on the deeply unfair, given what we've done to try and solve our problems compared to them....

Dan d,
I think that is more a perception trick than reality. We have managed to control our public spending to the extent that it not out of control, this is being marketed to us by the media as austerity, it comes nowhere close to any definition I can find. We have yet to bring the deficit in order.

Until we do that it seems our plan is to continue borrowing circa 20bn a year forever. This to me is not solving our problem when we can only earn circa 30bn a year. Austerity starts when we spend less than we earn, we haven't even got close to that and the political route to solving it has taken 3 years only to provide a modicum of control at senior levels. For example look at the hospital last week (or was it this week?) that declared I'll be out of money by November!!!! No control here...

We may not be Greece but we are in deep trouble. The problem is compounded by Europe knowing that in 2003 we balanced our books with 30bn in earnings. In the following 5 years we embarked on a completely irresponsible spending spree, practically doubling public spending. As an outsider looking, it hardly rings true that the country will collapse if public spending is not rolled back to 2003 levels?

Only when we have made significant in roads into this issue will we be judged as having made an effort. To date what can we really say we have achieved?