Latin for LC

Pherekydes

Hi all,

My son (15 now) just finished his JC and is interested in taking Latin for his LC. Does anyone have any idea where he could access a Latin course? While he's a beginner he has a high degree of interest. We're living in Lucan.

Thanks in advance.

IrishKnight

Try searching for LC Latin grinds, perhaps The Institute might offer them? Is your son doing transition year? If so that would be a great time to start learning it. Otherwise if he is going into 5th year, it might be a bit more difficult to do it seeing as he would have to cover about five years worth of info in two years.

I would advice you to perhaps buy one or two of the JC Latin books and let him have a look over them and study them over the summer. This will give him a taste of the language and what not. There is also lots of great online resources for those wanting to learn Latin.

Chuchoter

Most people would have done Latin from first year, so to be honest, while he could maybe pursue it as an interest, its not something I'd be attempting for leaving cert now. My cousin does latin (he's a second year) and I've seen his work and it is really, really difficult even at Junior cert. Its all very literary and its way harder than French or German.

In reality the leaving cert isn't about interest. Its about points. I wanted to do Japanese because I've a background in it, but between making it to extra classes it just wasn't practical. Theres no point going out of your way to do a subject for Leaving cert unless you desperately need another subject, in which case you pick something easy.

However, if you're really dead set on it, contact a Jesuit school (belvedere etc) they all teach Latin. But really, I wouldn't. Maybe try classical studies.

CdeP

crayolastereo wrote: »

Its all very literary and its way harder than French or German.

I may have gotten this wrong but apparently 14.5% of candidates who studied Latin got an A1 in the Leaving Cert last year compared to 6.2% and 6.9% in French and German respectively. Becoming fluent in the language may well be difficult but at Leaving Cert level the figures suggest it's a very accessible subject.

If it's something your son is passionate about, OP, I'd suggest you encourage him to give it a go.

LilMissCiara

CdeP wrote: »

I may have gotten this wrong but apparently 14.5% of candidates who studied Latin got an A1 in the Leaving Cert last year compared to 6.2% and 6.9% in French and German respectively. Becoming fluent in the language may well be difficult but at Leaving Cert level the figures suggest it's a very accessible subject.

If it's something your son is passionate about, OP, I'd suggest you encourage him to give it a go.

I'd also imagine that the students doing Latin are typically bright students who will have done it from first year.

Picking up a language from scratch and trying to get a 6 year standard covered in 2 years (3 with TY) will be difficult.

Maybe Japanese (just a Leaving Cert course) or Classical Studies would be a better route to go.

IrishKnight

CdeP wrote: »

I may have gotten this wrong but apparently 14.5% of candidates who studied Latin got an A1 in the Leaving Cert last year compared to 6.2% and 6.9% in French and German respectively. Becoming fluent in the language may well be difficult but at Leaving Cert level the figures suggest it's a very accessible subject.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The higher % A1 for Latin is likely to come from the fact that those schools that offer Latin and those students that study it tend to be more committed to gaining A1s. Where as I'd say every school offers French and German and with the third language requirement for most unis, this would drive the % A1s down. Take no stock from statistics.

I would have to agree with crayolastereo about the LC being about points rather than anything else. I had a great interest in history so I took it for the LC, ended up dropping it due to the sheer amount of information required to be learnt and I didn't need it for points...

CdeP

IrishKnight wrote: »

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The higher % A1 for Latin is likely to come from the fact that those schools that offer Latin and those students that study it tend to be more committed to gaining A1s. Where as I'd say every school offers French and German and with the third language requirement for most unis, this would drive the % A1s down. Take no stock from statistics.

You're probably right, IK, but ultimately what you're saying is just speculation. The explanation for the high percentage could be that those who do Latin are, like the OP's son, interested in the language so I wouldn't completely dismiss the stats.

I'd also agree with LilMissCiara about Classics. It's a very interesting and accessible subject with aspects of Latin culture incorporated which may interest your son.

Chuchoter

Most of the people who do Latin come from Private schools and do it because their father did it and hence know it all. Thats where the A1s are coming from. Any subject with a small pool of students is generally quite good (ie Applied Maths)

Most of Latin at JC is grammar and translations. This is out of my cousins copy that he's translated from Latin to English (in 2nd year remember!). Theres a full page and a half of this.

'At last he said, "Quintus I forsee a civil war' The citizens are running wild. The magistrates are not able to run the city. You Quintus must sail for Athens and study philosophy.In the morning Quintus was hurrying to the school of Helodonus. It was a different journey through which many bands of people wandered through'

Now if thats not difficult I don't know what is.

LilMissCiara

crayolastereo wrote: »

Most of the people who do Latin come from Private schools and do it because their father did it and hence know it all. Thats where the A1s are coming from. Any subject with a small pool of students is generally quite good (ie Applied Maths)

Most of Latin at JC is grammar and translations. This is out of my cousins copy that he's translated from Latin to English (in 2nd year remember!). Theres a full page and a half of this.

'At last he said, "Quintus I forsee a civil war' The citizens are running wild. The magistrates are not able to run the city. You Quintus must sail for Athens and study philosophy.In the morning Quintus was hurrying to the school of Helodonus. It was a different journey through which many bands of people wandered through'

Now if thats not difficult I don't know what is.

Wouldn't be able to translate it to French after 6 years of the language! :P

IrishKnight

CdeP wrote: »

...but ultimately what you're saying is just speculation.

Same the can be said for what you are saying! Trust me, I studied stats in uni and see them all the time in my line of work!

randylonghorn

LilMissCiara wrote: »

Wouldn't be able to translate it to French after 6 years of the language! :P

He's translating FROM Latin though ... and normally translations are in that direction, given that people are unlikely to ever meet someone who speaks Latin as their first language! >_>

And there is a finite number of translations as well ... no new books being written!

While Latin definitely needs hard work, it's quite a different matter from learning a living language. Plus the fact that English is a very latinate language helps ... vocab is easier to learn, as many Latin words have provided the roots for English words, and are easier to remember as a result.

Whether it's a good idea to take it up after JC, I have no idea ... it does sound like an uphill climb, I have to admit.


Anyway, as interesting as this discussion is ... can anyone help Pherekydes out with specific info. re: Latin courses etc?

Pherekydes

Thanks very much for all the replies. Some interesting ideas regarding JC course books. I'll look into that.

Regarding the LC being about points and only points, I can't disagree, but it doesn't have to be. It should still be possible to pursue a subject purely for the love of it.

I'd never tell my kids that something was intellectually beyond their reach. His 'plan' at this stage is to cover the JC course during TY. It may be an uphill struggle, but isn't that part of the fun of an intellectual pursuit. People take up brand new subjects in college and reach honours degree standard in 3 or 4 years through application and hard work. God knows he's laid back enough, so if he shows an interest in something I'm going to encourage him.

Regarding other courses, Latin (the language) is what he's interested in, not the Classics or Japanese (Japanese?).

IrishKnight

Pherekydes wrote: »

His 'plan' at this stage is to cover the JC course during TY.

That's good to hear as I did something similar with German...

Pherekydes wrote: »

It should still be possible to pursue a subject purely for the love of it'

It should be possible to do courses for the love of it, but more often than not it ends up being a case of "What will get me the most points!" Tho often those subjects you like will give you those higher points...

randylonghorn

Actually, Pherekydes, why not give a ring to the Classics Dept. in NUIM?

Obviously, they won't have courses at this level, but they may know of courses, possibly some of their own grads are running them for that matter?

Chuchoter

I guess if he has TY to play with then go ahead, just make sure that he's not devoting inordinate time to it in 5th year and its taking away from other subjects

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Superbus

I'm in 5th Year (well going into 6th) and do Latin. Out of the year of 200 odd, we have a class of 16 committed lads, while at JC there were 32 in one class, which was too many.

Anyway, personally it would be one of my favourite subjects, and that'd be the case for most of the 16. I have a genuine, strong interest in the history side of the course especially, and while it's not particularly prominent on the papers we spend alot of time on it so that's enjoyable for me.

Otherwise on the LC course there's 500+ lines of Virgil to know as good as off by heart in English, infinite grammatical complexities (well, to be able to translate an unfiltered unseen passage of Latin), and a decent chunk of Roman Art and Architecture.

All of the guys in the class have studied it since 1st Year, but for one who was self-taught at JC and joined in 5th Year, and those years have been pretty intensive (it was even the only subject where in TY we didn't take the foot off the pedal). It'd be a difficult subject to pick up at this stage and would require a huge amount of work, but if he is genuinely interested then I'd say he'd find it to be his most rewarding subject, from my own experience.

One thing to point out is that even with my years of work and capability to translate a piece of the Aeneid, I'm not able to say 'Hi, my name is Superbus, I'm 17 and from Dublin'. You don't learn it in the same way you do French or Irish, but for me that's undoubtedly a good thing.


Finally, after next June I'll have a hilarious amount of quality notes (the teacher claims that other Latin teachers ask for them and she staunchly refuses - I also know for a fact she works with college students). If he ends up doing the subject I'd happily donate them to use from 5th Year onwards, as it's the kind of subject where stuff like that really helps.

FerrisBueller

Hi OP,

I did Latin a few years ago and honestly it's no walk in the park, those 14% or whatever that get As at LC do so because they eat sleep and breathe the subject, honestly it is a very intense subject and all of my other subjects suffered immensely because of the amount of time I put into it, and that was only at JC!

The poetry can be memorised but like that it's 500 lines of sentences very similar to what another posted as a translation, it doesn't come easy.

The Roman history and life are very interesting elements alright, but then again you can do that in Classical Studies. If he's interested in taking up a language, maybe suggest Spanish or Italian? There are a lot of similarities in the language part but you can actually speak it, etc and there isn't the headache of complex sentence constructions and declensions.

Anyway, best of luck with your decision either way, I would actually recommend that he tries it over the summer instead of in TY even so that if he likes/hates it he'll be able to hit the ground running in Sept