Copying and Pasting

PaulBrewer

What's the consensus on copying and pasting ?

Do you 'reuse' your recorded parts that were in the first verse, for example, again in the second etc. or do you record the second verse, even if it's the same part ?

Do you do that with all parts or with some, vocals perhaps ?

krd

Why do you have to ask such a question?

This is 2011 not 1971.

Find the best bits and loop them. What's the point in doing stuff to a click track if you're not going to do that.

If a drummer is only on the button for a bar - you loop that bar. What's the point in doing otherwise. Same with the bass. Or if it's a backing vocal.

You're trying to put the best thing together you can - not the most authentic. You should be comp'ing like crazy.

PaulBrewer

And what about dynamics then ? Isn't it natural for the bass player to be playing harder in chorus 4 than chorus one ? A few grace notes to make things more interesting perhaps ? C+P removes that possibility ...

spiderjazz

Does it come down to a time/money issue for people who working as audio engineers for a living?

Do you track and edit one perfect verse, and copy+paste for the other verses? Or do you alternatively (if you're working with people who aren't hitting everything on time) record every verse and end up with a product with more "character", but could be perceived as "sloppy"?

I've only started slip editing bass and guitar tracks for tightness, it's provided a great incentive to tighten up my playing!

PaulBrewer

Fair question Spider.

I think from my own perspective if it's taking 2 hours to nail a verse I'm Apple V-ing.

Ideally I'd at least like to have whole sections to copy, if I have to.

I don't like slop at all (that doesn't necessarily mean everything on the line either) and want my bands to sound like they can play together .... even if they can't!

Pocketing is a very valid approach to my mind - get the great take and slide the few loose notes back into the zone. While there's often some resistance to the notion (misplaced in my view) by some guys, the Metal lads have taken to it like a duck to water.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

And what about dynamics then ? Isn't it natural for the bass player to be playing harder in chorus 4 than chorus one ? A few grace notes to make things more interesting perhaps ? C+P removes that possibility ...

If it's worth it.


Ropey playing doesn't sound that ropey, if you find a good bar and loop it - it sounds like they've got a deliberate groove on.

Not all dynamics are good.


It can have a boxed in sound to it. But if people are playing to constant BPM click tracks they're already boxed in. That's why Kassabian went for clickless on their last album

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but they had the luxury of engineers building a timing track behind their playing for all their midi stuff.

Obi-Jim

I like to record almost everything, especially drums, bass and acoustic guitars.

If they are consistent enough, it'll get used. If they are struggling while recording, i'll try to work it so I've gotten enough to build sections.

Not so strict with extra persussion, bv's or little overdubs. If a particular part sounds good, I might use it at the next section.

Having had a couple of bad experiences having to build whole songs from little pickings of ok-ness because the musicians were shyt, I try to get everything down as strong as possible, when it's not possible it's not possible. Hopefully a bit of pocketing is all you will need.

drumdrum

I think only if you have to.

I prefer to try to nail the takes each time if I can. People dont have machine precision and as a result, I find that the little inconsistencies with the takes can really make a song feel more organic and real.

Over-quantising the beats and exact time matching can remove the human element of the song. And some times, the player does something slightly different but really cool in one take that just works with the doubled guitar part.

Heres how I do things:
Not to sound like an arrogant prick, but I'm very comfortable with click tracks when I'm drumming so once I have my drums down, most times they are near perfect to what I want (from a musical perspective). I might tighten things up slightly as sometimes a kick or s snare might be a tiny bit late, but other than that I try not to quantise the drum parts too much, if at all. Once they are tight, I play everything else to the drums and not the click, or I might leave the click in with the drums, but at a low level in my headphone mix. Makes things sound more musical IMHO.


Then again, I think that if you are being paid to engineer, and the musician is not doing their part right at all, you should do whatever you can to make the project sound better.

GTE

For me i haven't fully embraced the advantages of digital with copying and pasting. I have never wanted to. I prefer to do full takes rather then loop it. It can really help certain songs.

I do like to have a click track for the songs that can take it just incase something needs doing. Also in my experience the better drummers can help by keeping feel without sounding like they are following a click. Something i learned as a player was to have the click as a reference and not something to follow.

krd

Paul, I think your objections to cut and paste are purely philosophical. And do not serve the music you produce. Ideological intransigency.


The dark side of the force is more powerful than the light.

Here are the Jedi commands from the dark side CTRL-X, CTRL-C, CTRL-V


Paul...I am your father, Paul.