Car clamped in the designated car space

Jarren

Hi folks

Was just wondering if you tell me who is responsible to reinburse my GF for declamping fee.Basically She moved into apt last Friday and her car got clamped
this morning.In her Residential Tenancy Agreement states that she has designated car space allocated to her.Before signing the Tenancy Agreement,it was said to her that the parking is for free without mentioning anything about
the permit required for parking.She already lodged the appeal with NCPS but I
don't think they will actually give her money back based on the fact they clamped the car in the first place!:(

The car is still clamped ,she was on the phone with NCPS who told her that despite having a Tenancy Agreement and that she is the resident ,she still would have to pay 120 euros clamp releasing fee

or should she just purchase an axle grinder ?

Any advice much appreciated:)

Paulw

She should contact her landlord, who should have provided any parking permit.

robbie_998

jarecki1976 wrote: »

Hi folks

Was just wondering if you tell me who is responsible to reinburse my GF for declamping fee.Basically She moved into apt last Friday and her car got clamped
this morning.In her Residential Tenancy Agreement states that she has designated car space allocated to her.Before signing the Tenancy Agreement,it was said to her that the parking is for free without mentioning anything about
the permit required for parking.She already lodged the appeal with NCPS but I
don't think they will actually give her money back based on the fact they clamped the car in the first place!:(

The car is still clamped ,she was on the phone with NCPS who told her that despite having a Tenancy Agreement and that she is the resident ,she still would have to pay 120 euros clamp releasing fee

or should she just purchase an axle grinder ?

Any advice much appreciated:)

clamping a car is illegal .... threaten them with legal action


if that doesn't work then yes... down to the local B&Q and a nice angle grinder will do the trick

Jarren

Thanks folks for all the info on this matter

Basically she paid 120 euros/car got declamped/She has one week of parking without any risk of being clamped again.
All she needs to do is to ring NCPS office tomorrow and wait for her permit parking disc.
As for Declamping fee...

Let's wait and see ....:)

Mods...feel free to close this thread now

Paulw

robbie_998 wrote: »

clamping a car is illegal .... threaten them with legal action


if that doesn't work then yes... down to the local B&Q and a nice angle grinder will do the trick

Clamping is not illegal. Hate to break it to you.

If you cut off the clamp, you can be charged with criminal damage.

Bens

Paulw wrote: »

Clamping is not illegal. Hate to break it to you.

If you cut off the clamp, you can be charged with criminal damage.

Cut it off. I know heaps and heaps of people who did. None of them have ever suffered any charges from it.

robbie_998

Paulw wrote: »

Clamping is not illegal. Hate to break it to you.

If you cut off the clamp, you can be charged with criminal damage.

actually is illegal though.

look into it.

there are threads about it on here about damage to personal property and so on.

private companies are not allowed to do it.

the council do it but thats a gray area

you will not get charged with anything.

they'll takes reg's and all sorts but nothing from companies like these

the council is a lil different.. i think they try to make you pay for damages or something

Paulw

robbie_998 wrote: »

actually is illegal though.

private companies are not allowed to do it.

the council do it but thats a gray area

Can you quote me the law that makes it illegal?

As for the council doing it, it's not gray at all, it's fully legal, as passed in a by-law.

Either way, the OP has resolved their issue for now.

aN.Droid

Clamping is just as legal as removing a clamp. If you are clamped in the future don't think twice and cut that sucker off. Then get in touch with the clamping company and tell them they have x amount of days to collect there clamp before you dispose of it. Just don't do this if it's a council clamp :P

markpb

robbie_998 wrote: »

actually is illegal though.

The law you're thinking of is section 113 of the 1961 Road Traffic Act:

A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place.

Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

A lot of apartment complexes (particularly gated estates) are not public places as defined by the Road Traffic Acts so clamping there is not illegal.

Apartment complexes that are public places would be covered by this law (making private clamping illegal) but the clampers could try to claim that they were hired by the owner of the road (the management company) to enforce the provisions of the lease agreement which *might* give them lawful authority.

the council do it but thats a gray area. the council is a lil different.. i think they try to make you pay for damages or something

The council pass a by-law which makes it an offence to park in contravention with the RTAs. If you remove a council clamp, you'll be prosecuted for criminal damage.

jd

Limericks wrote: »

Clamping is just as legal as removing a clamp. If you are clamped in the future don't think twice and cut that sucker off. Then get in touch with the clamping company and tell them they have x amount of days to collect there clamp before you dispose of it. Just don't do this if it's a council clamp :P

Just one thing on this, if the management company know what apartment you are in a charge may be added to the service charge for the apartment.

jd

OP- perhaps your gf should deduct the clamping fee from here next rent payment....(or more realistically make a good case with him/her for a reduction)

Riskymove

tbh the problem here was not the clampers but the communication, they were not told about this new car and therefore clamped it

whatever about legality, the clampers are operating through invitation of the managment company as a way of managing parking there, this deters others from parking in her designated space

I think she has a claim on the management comapny to cover the fee if they failed to tell her how to inform clampers correctly.

jd

Riskymove wrote: »

tbh the problem here was not the clampers but the communication, they were not told about this new car and therefore clamped it

..

I think she has a claim on the management comapny to cover the fee if they failed to tell her how to inform clampers correctly.

The management company wouldn't have known about a new tenant-the onus is on the landlord to communicate these kind of details.

markpb

jd wrote: »

The management company wouldn't have known about a new tenant-the onus is on the landlord to communicate these kind of details.

Although you're right - this is entirely the landlords fault - under the Multi Unit Development Act passed earlier this year, landlords are required to tell the management company about their tenants:

Section 8(3) says

A unit owner (whether the owner of a residential unit or a commercial unit) shall be under an obligation to furnish to the relevant owners’ management company—
(a) particulars of his or her name,
(b) particulars of his or her address,
(c) particulars of the names of the tenants in the unit,
(d) particulars of any habitual occupiers of the unit other than tenants, and
(e) such other contact particulars as the owners’ management company may reasonably request, and shall promptly notify the owners’ management company of any change in such particulars.

Riskymove

jd wrote: »

The management company wouldn't have known about a new tenant-the onus is on the landlord to communicate these kind of details.

sorry, yes

I mis-interpreted 'tenancy agreement' as an agreement with a Management company

Sky King

markpb wrote: »

A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place.

A clamp is not part of the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle is it?

aN.Droid

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

A clamp is not part of the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle is it?

But a wheel is.

ravendude

Clamping is "probably" legal in private car car parks under Law of Contract where a sign clearly indicates that acceptance of the terms is a condition of parking in the car park. ie. Your parking there is an acceptance of the terms displayed.

I say "probably" because as far as I know, its never been tested in court.

I heard anecdotally, that even if you remove a clamp they will generally not take any action against you as they are afraid that if the issue was tested in court, and a judge was to find against them, that their entire business model might be out the window.

Ray Palmer

It may have been the responsibility of the landlord to give you the permit on time but it did not exempt you from not obeying the rules in the car park. If they are clearly displayed the one and only person at fault was the OP.

The landlord didn't park against the rules and the car park operators followed the rules. Harsh but true

Jarren

Hi folks

I just want to update the thread

My Girlfriend received an email from NCPS today


01/07/2011

Re: Parking Appeal for Serial No. - ........... - ..........

Dear .............

We acknowledge receipt of your correspondence regarding your vehicle being immobilised and these are our findings;

Whilst we sympathise with the circumstances surrounding the vehicle being immobilised our enforcement officers would be unaware of them and would carry out their instructions accordingly.

The ......... car park is private property and we are contracted to enforce the parking regulations on this site.

All vehicles parked at this location must display a valid parking permit at all times. There are public display signs erected throughout the car park informing you that parking is for permit holders only and that immobilisation is in operation.

A permit is only valid when it is displayed visibly and clearly on the dashboard/windscreen of the vehicle. The permit must be displayed in such a way that it can be read for verification purposes by our operatives on patrol. The onus is on you the driver of the vehicle to ensure that your permit is displayed correctly before you leave your vehicle unattended.
Due to the vehicle being parked in contravention to the sites rules, we are unable to grant your appeal. If you would like to appeal our decision further please submit your 2nd appeal to the Independent Parking Appeals Services (IPAS) under The Second Appeal -Independent Process section available on www.webappeals.ie

Thank you for your correspondence and NCPS now consider this matter to be closed.


Yours sincerely

Appeals Officer
For and on behalf of The Appeals Department
Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems Ltd.



It looks like the second appeal will be appropriate...


Thanks Boardies:)


Ps I will update this thread in a few days

ravendude

Who the heck are "Independent Parking Appeals Services (IPAS)"?
They don't seem like a public body to me

Looks like a pile of horsesh**t to me to make it look like some independent body is reviewing your appeal.

Who are they? Who is behind them? Who gives them authority?

Maybe I'm a cynic, but i smell a big dirty rat here

Jarren

http://www.ncps.ie/ipas.pdf

Terri26

NCPS are not at fault here, the op/ landlord is. This happens my friend in her estate as her llord is behind in paying management fees so they don't issue my friend with permit so she gets clamped. She takes the prices of the declamping from her rent (told the llord she was going this). She got her permit after this happening 2/3 times.
I assume on the contract it says she is entitled to a parking on it?

Faolchu

Paulw wrote: »

Can you quote me the law that makes it illegal?

under the road traffic act, interfering with the mechanical operation of a veichle. I believe only the gardai, traffic wardens or the local authority can do it by law in public places, private property is slighty different. there's an interesting article in the law society gazette about clamping

i'd be deducting all cost from the rent, part of yoru rental agreement presumably includes the exclusive us of a parking space so the onus is on the landlord to know there is a requirement to provide a permit to you and to advise you of the need to display it.

astrofool

Faolchu wrote: »

i'd be deducting all cost from the rent, part of yoru rental agreement presumably includes the exclusive us of a parking space so the onus is on the landlord to know there is a requirement to provide a permit to you and to advise you of the need to display it.

Would the signs in the car park detailing this information not satisfy the need?

Faolchu

astrofool wrote: »

Would the signs in the car park detailing this information not satisfy the need?

depends on the content of the sign. if it simply said "residents parking clamping in operation" then there is no indication of a permit being required. of course it could also saw "permit parking only, clamping in operation" either way teh landlord still has an obligation to provide teh permit if a parking space is part of teh rental agreement.

you could find the MC is using permits to force owners to pay their SC, no SC no permit + you get clamped so you have to pay up more. Or depending on the location of the estate the landlord could be holding on to teh permit for him/herself so they can use it as a park and ride.

eitherway if its private property unless carried out by the Gardai, a traffic warden or teh locak council isnt clampinp an offence under the road traffic act? a recent article in the law society gazzette (march 2011) seems to suggest it is because it interfers with the mechanical operation of the veichle. also something to do with clamping being related to trespass laws so IMO if that is true as the tenant isnt trespassing then they cant be clamped, not sure if that would hold water in front of a judge though

Victor

Faolchu wrote: »

eitherway if its private property unless carried out by the Gardai, a traffic warden or teh locak council isnt clampinp an offence under the road traffic act? a recent article in the law society gazzette (march 2011) seems to suggest it is because it interfers with the mechanical operation of the veichle. also something to do with clamping being related to trespass laws so IMO if that is true as the tenant isnt trespassing then they cant be clamped, not sure if that would hold water in front of a judge though

Its complicated. Forcing someone's hand either way exposes you to legal problems, even if you win.

Solair

I wonder if you could take legal proceedings in the small claims court?

While I can understand them clamping the car without the permit, I cannot understand why they feel they should not refund the money the charged to remove it again as the clamp was put on due to a communications mix up i.e. you were entitled to park there, you simply did not have the sticker or whatever it is you needed.

Anyone who was being remotely reasonable would refund the fee.