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ATH Knockout QF4: CMPunked vs Waltersobchek
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25-06-2011 6:05pm#1
Comments
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For me this is is an extermely hard question to answer because, Personally i HATE gimmick PPV's.. The reasoning behind them is completly unorginal and frankly lazy booking on both TNA and WWE's parts.. In my opinion the use of a big gimmick match should be the culmination of a fued, logically used and not just for the sake of it.. So Why have 3 HIAC matches on one card for fu*ks sake?? So for me i would use a gimmick PPV somewhat differently..
WWE is definitely going through a transition, and is trying (trying being the operative word) to get younger talent over and moving to the future.. Some might agree its working but the majority of fans probably wouldn't.. IMHO the majority of the big "Attitude Era" WWE talent never passed the torch to the current "PG era" talent, and because they never did that the (longtime) fans probably never completely bought into certain superstars.. As they wheren't properly placed in their positions by being put over by the previous generation..
So the basis of my PPV is a simple one, Modern Wrestlers vs Old School.. Passing the torch.. Moving towards the future..
My PPV would be based around an angle started by Mick Foley, who returns to WWE and basically shoots on the entire WWE lockerroom, for being boring, bland, "superstars" who all have more interest in becoming moviestars than WRESTLERS, and how in the last 10 years, all the fans who he and all the rest of the Attitude era stars, had watching Raw have gone, and been replaced by a WWE Universe of 5 and 6 year old children..
This obviously offends the entire WWE lockerroom, and on the following Weeks Raw, differant superstars, hit back at Mick Foley and his comments, saying that the current generation do more for WWE, than Foley or anyone ever did.. They work hard every single week of the year to enertain the WWE universe, after all the Attitude era guys just dissappered for Hollywood or got too old and injured from beating each other with barbed wire..
This would then set up the PPV.. Were each match would be part of the greater overall Theme, but would have a reasoning for the fued..
My first Match is a simple one, fast paced opener with plenty of spots,, and it's a pretty easy one for the crowd to get into...
REY MYSTERIO VS EVAN BOURNE VS SIN CARA
For me is the perfect opening match, Rey Mysterio is easily the most successful high flyer in WWE history, and a former World Champion.. And Cara is obviously Mysterio's logical successor for WWE, and imo Bourne is the best Highflyer in the world, so this match is a logical one for all men.. And this could help both Cara and Bourne get over even more with the WWE Universe..
Reason for the fued..
Mysterio is the top dog, Highflyer in WWE and both Sin Cara and Evan Bourne think they're better than him, and want to be seen by the WWE Universe as better than him
The second Match on my card is going to be a controversial one..
DANIEL BRYAN VS HHH
HHH is quite possibly the most hated man in the History of the IWC and Bryan Danielson is definitely the polar opposite, the most loved man with all smarks everywhere.. But other than that these two men could have an epic fued and the chance to work with HHH could be great for Bryan, as he already puts on the best matches on whatever show he's on, a match with HHH would be fantastic..
Reason for the Fued..
HHH see's Bryan has nothing but an overrated internet sensation.. Bryan sets out to earn HHH's respect, by beating him..
THE MIZ VS MICK FOLEY
This match would come about because Miz is everything Foley hates about The Modern WWE. Miz is nothing but a guy looking for 15 minutes of Fame, First from MTV, Then Tough Enough, now WWE.. He's has never earned anything, he never paid his dues like Foiley did for years before making to the main event..
Obviously this fued would be all about the promo's..
Reason for Fued..
Mick Foley think's Miz is using WWE for fame only, and doesnt respect the Wrestling business, whilst Miz thinks Foley was an overrated wrestler and glorifed Stuntman
Randy Orton vs The Undertaker
Orton and Undertaker have fueded in the past, but Orton was never successful in beating the Deadman, now that Orton is a little older, and a little wiser he thinks he could win..
Reason for the fued..
Ortons ego.. He's never beaten Taker, and now thinks he can
Steve Austin vs CM Punk..
This is a pretty obvious fued, Stone is the Beer drinking SOB, and Punk is the Straight Edge Superstar, than dichotomy alone just writes itself.. And a match with Austin could be whats finally needed to Put CM Punk in the upper echelon of the WWE
Reason for the Fued..
Personality and Idealogical differences..
The Rock vs John Cena
Obviously this is already happening at Wrestlemania, but this match could happen again!
Reason for the Fued..
Cena vs Rock Part II
Would the concept of this PPV work?? Personally, i think so, because even as a one off PPV, its better than seeing 3 HIAC matches or 3 TLC matches on the one card.. And with PPV buys constantly taking a battering, i think this PPV would get enough fans, including older semi-fans interested in the PPV.. I would call the PPV.. "WWE.. This is NOW.." Because thats what it is, guys from the past, guys who will be around long into WWE's future completing against each other now..0 -
I too, much like Walter, quite despise the gimmick ppv idea.
With some exceptions, like the Royal Rumble, Survivor series style match and KOTR. But maybe this is due to the fact that all of these are engrained in my psyche as when some of the big money moments happened, today it seems all a little too mundane.
So also, like walter i propose more of a one off event that could resinate through the years as being one of those big moments that goes down in history.
A little backstory first into the progression of this idea:
one of my favorite angles growing up was the invasion style angle. And this was first shown to me back in 2001 in the infamous wcw/ecw vs wwf. But over time i have learnt that many of these invasions happened throughout wrestling history.
When you consider that wwe buyrates are down so much at the moment, and one of the biggest (non big 4) ppvs ever was the aforementioned invasion ppv, it could be an idea to tap into this kind of angle once again.
But the question is, what company could possibly have a rivalry with the wwe?
Well the answer is obvious:(and ROH, but they will fall under the TNA heading)
I will address firstly what are sure to be some looks of
when the image above appears on your computer screen-
Firstly i do understand that a large majority of people would never consider tna to be anywhere near wwe viewings wise, but below i will try and explain how this is a win situation for the wwe, tna and most importantly, the fans.MAJOR WWE RAW 27th June SPOILERS AHEAD, Read at your own discretion.
Back in the 90s the thing that drove business was competition, vince mcmahon has no problem saying that these days. The wwe needs the competition it had to garner interest in its product from fans who
I first thought up this concept before i seen last nights raw, had hammered out what i thought was a pretty good concept, it made some amount of sense. I was going to watch raw to get some last minute inspiration and maybe tweek my ideas in the process. What followed was a complete overhaul of my original plan based on last nights proceedings.
So to understand this ppv plan lets get into the mindset that it is a ppv that could happen in the very near future. Lets say around Summerslam time.
On last nights Raw CM Punk spoke openly and freely about some of the things holding him down in the wwe. He teased that he might just win the wwe title at the MITB ppv, leave and defend it in other companies and there would be nothing that the wwe could do about it.
Well lets say that is exactly what happens.
CM Punk pins cena at MITB and is handed his belt. The wwe universe is in shock.
The next day he tweets a photo of a TNA contract sitting ontop of the wwe championship with a pen in hand signing the contract. which gives shades to the time when he signed the wwe contract ontop of the roh championship.
The following impact he arrives and speaks about how in tna, wrestling matters and he is the greatest wrestler in the world so maybe thats where he should belong.
Hogan and bishoff welcome him to tna and start putting him in matches that really showcase wrestling, submission matches, ironaman etc.
Back in wwe land and all the heels are fuming and being led by the Miz. They approach vince and miz speaks about how he was the most must see wwe champ in history and how is he ever going to be again if he cant even get near the title.
Vince agrees but says that there is nothing that can be done as cm punk left as the champion. but he can proceed legal action.
John cena cuts a promo in the ring before a match with r truth saying how even though raw is title-less for the time being, when a new title is created how he will also win that title. Truth continues the conspiracy gimmick as he is saying that cena let punk win because he was scared that truth was going to take it from him.
Cena wins the match and his music plays but is interrupted by the miz and the heels. Miz says truth is kinda right, the fact that the wwe doesnt have a title is because of john cena, if he hadve been strong enough, he could have beaten punk and none of this would be happening. The heels hit the ring and beat down cena and saying he doesnt deserve to be part of the wwe.
a week or two passes and vince makes a statement that the legalities of creating a new wwe title is going to take longer than what they thought as punk has that title and would need to relinquish it but says that he has set the wheels in motion to have it taken from punk.
The next impact sees Punks match getting interfered by some of the raw heels (miz, swagger, mason ryan, truth), Punk tells them they shouldnt be there as they arent wrestlers. Universal studios security runs in and removes the heels.
A face to face meeting is held on raw between punk and vince.
Punk is accompanied by some of the bigger tna names such as Styles, beer money, samoa joe. etc.
Vince tells punk that he sent him a limo and the private jet to remind him and show his friends how greener the grass was on the otherside.
Punk jokes about how some of the wwe superstars abilities are green.
Back and forth until Punk asks vince what is it he wants. Vince tells punk if he is that "sure of being the best in the world and with the best athletes in the world how about they settle it in a night of competition, the wwe vs tna?
Some matches purely for bragging rights, and then the main event..
An opponent of your (punk) choosing to face you for our" Punk: "My" Vince:"... your.. title, you win we drop legal proceedings and admit defeat."
I get to choose the opponent? Well then i think its simple, i want cena."
Vince: "Fine.."
Punk: "Oh and also, if i win, cena is no longer a wwe employee, and he signs a 2 year tna contract." (Punk also points out how it would be funny from his view to see wrestlemania come along and see dwayne pull out because of no opponent.)
Vince starts to lose it.
Punk: "Its all or nothing vinny."
Vince: "Your on!"
The event is set, the main event is set and the background is set.
WWE and tna both produce their own advertisements, the tna ones would be in the same vain as the "Why wrestling matters" campaign at the moment.
WWE produces videos looking back at the lineage of the wwe, how they have always faced adversary and won. 27 wrestlemanias, millions of fans etc.
Down to the event:
Sin Cara & Evan Bourne vs AJ & Alex Shelly
Fast paced opener which showcases all of the respected teams abilities.
Samoa Joe vs Big Show
A total brawl and displays of strength all round.
The Miz vs Mr Anderson
Kane vs Abyss
Kurt angle vs Danielson
Undertaker Vs Sting
A match people have wanted to see for years. Could be the only possible way it could happen without sting actually going to wwe.
Sheamus Vs Kazarian
The Main event:
Cm punk vs John Cena
Cena would obviously win the title back and the wwe would be on top again.
Punk goes back to tna and instead of playing the "fearless leader" face character like he would have been playing pre ppv, he could then turn heel towards his tna counterparts after his loss.
Why does my concept work?
It brings in some one off matches between wrestlers who will probably never face each other for one reason or another (sting being prime example). It guarantees that these are the one time you will ever get to see the matches happen either. Wwe wont be able to continue the feuds on for months. If wwe were to hammer home this point it could lead to a lot of buys.
Another reason the concept works is that it doesnt lead to a storyline where one company will cease to exist when the dust settles.
If you thought thats where i was going when you first started reading, thats understandable, but as i said, this leaves both companies in a win/win situation.
WWE will be the one hosting the event, so their production values will make tna wrestlers look as best they can.
This will also lead to wwe taking a major cut in the profits from the event, so no real loss monetary wise.
TNA will get some increased international exposure and over time could possibly become the competition to wwe that would be needed.
Tna wrestlers also get showcased and the abilities are seen by some who do not know of them other than their appearances.
Also, TNA does not compete with wwe for ratings as their shows arent really on at the same time, so vince would not have to worry about viewer loss as he probably would have during the monday night wars.
IN CONCLUSION:
As a wrestling fan i long to see a ppv event where i can say in a few years time "Oh man, do you remember when
(i).Edge spear's off the ladder
(ii).the ring collapsing on smackdown.
(iii). The rocks return to the wwe."
One event many people will do this with is the wcw/wwf invasion angle from 2001, but many of the negatives people have are that the mega stars of wcw werent involved, and the outcome seemed lazy and cheap.
My event doesnt have such problems.
Oh and also, did i mention that a Zack Ryder v Robbie E match would be the dark match/dvd bonus feature? :P0 -
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waltersobchak wrote: »Punk like you i was a massive fan around the WWF/ECW/WCW invasion period.. And if one thing that should be learned from that period is unfortunately.. Invasions dont work in Wrestling.
Ok this wouldnt be an all out invasion type angle as such, as tna wrestlers arent trying to take over the wwe or try and ruin it or anything, they are just out to prove they are better.
I also would say that invasion angles when orchestrated correctly, can work pretty well. In the sense that it has to make sense, will prove to be somewhat positive for each companies involved and have the major stars of each promotion involved.
Now if you consider not all of these elements were met with the 2001 invasion of the wwf, you would be right when you look back, but my angle works where that one did not.and i'd bet if you asked casual WWE fans, who are AJ Styles? Samoa Joe?? or Beer Money? the majority wouldn't be able to answer that question. Or Whatever happened to Kurt Angle? "I dunno, did he retire?"
I should have mentioned, the fact that i havent got ex wwe wrestlers on the card isnt coincidence, i would have them working in the backgrounds of the angle but certainly not anywhere near the card.
Also, there would be a good four weeks of build up to the event, ample time for run ins and ways for the more casual wwe fan to get to know who each tna wrestler is and why they are against whoever.
I think a lot of more casual fans nowadays actually do know who tna is moreso than the fans (like you and me) did about say, wcw wrestlers. Kids and casual fans would know about tna because the likes of jeff, matt, rvd, anderson have all jumped ship over the years, if you were fans of them, your going to know where they are now, even if you dont care to watch it.Like Vince's well known distaste for Jeff Jarrett, Bar Hogan, Angle, Sting, Van Dam and possibly Hardy, the majority of the TNA roster wouldnt be good enough for WWE. And if they eventually do go out of business i'd imagine Vince would buy the TNA library just for the sake of having it, rather than actually doing something worthwhile with the brand. I couldnt see WWE having TNA DVD releases like they've done with ECW and WCW, TBH i'd very much doubt WWE would ever want to put their name to a "BEST OF IMPACT!" DVD set..
A valid point, but again i reiterate, i do not wish to have the same angle from 2001 play out in my angle. Tna wrestlers go back to tna and try to use some of the exposure to heighten their level. wwe goes back to wwe and reap the rewards of having a ppv do well and have a basis to set up new fresh rivalries.I REALLY do like your angle and idea's Punked, but because of TNA's own mediocrity and inability to ever get themselves beyond what they always been which is the number 2 promotion in America by default rather than success, means that no-one would really care if TNA invaded WWE, and more importantly no-one would but into TNA beating WWE in an Invasion..
This is less a tna invading wwe and more wwe invading tna to try and get their championship back. I understand the thought that not many would care if tna wrestlers were randomly to appear on some raw for no other reason than just to prove themselves better.
And that is exactly why i wrote it as such. WWE marks and/or cena marks would get behind how cena has lost his title and it could be potentially irretrievable.
No one would have to believe tna could beat wwe as again, there is nothing other to gain other than bragging rights for the undercard and then the big angle going into the main event, which really has, everything to play for.
For wwe to win this would mean they recover not only the title, but also that they dont lose cena, which would be huge.
But for tna the loss of having the wwe championship on their show doesnt have the same dramatic consequences as they never really fought for it, CM Punk just brought it to them.Also where would WWE jobbers go when they get released? Main Eventing in TNA is their one shot at that spot:pac:
I hope ive explained clear enough that in my angle its not a ppv like the one in 2001, where one company will reign supreme come the end of the 3 hour show, tna would still continue to be tna (hoping that rubbing shoulders with vince creatively rubs off on dixie and starts to understand why her company isnt excelling as it should.
WWE gets a chance to have a very succesful ppv that showcases something for all walks of the wwe fan spectrum.
The wwe/cena mark: where they will buy the ppv to see what happens with cena in the main event,
The casual fan who enjoys the whole package: they would enjoy the wrestling on the card, as it would be pretty stellar match ups,
The internet smark: who, even though they will be completely un-relentless about saying how obvious it would be that cena isnt joining TNA, would love it because its one of those one off ppvs which would be a talking point for years. (just like the current punk angle or the rocks involvement at last and next years mania)waltersobchak wrote: »WWE is definitely going through a transition, and is trying to get younger talent over and moving to the future.. Some might agree its working but the majority of fans probably wouldn't.. IMHO the majority of the big "Attitude Era" WWE talent never passed the torch to the current "PG era" talent, and because they never did that the (longtime) fans probably never completely bought into certain superstars.. As they wheren't properly placed in their positions by being put over by the previous generation..
So the basis of my PPV is a simple one, Modern Wrestlers vs Old School.. Passing the torch.. Moving towards the future..
Interesting concept, but i think we have heard this one before..My PPV would be based around an angle started by Mick Foley, who returns to WWE and basically shoots on the entire WWE lockerroom, for being boring, bland, "superstars" who all have more interest in becoming moviestars than WRESTLERS, and how in the last 10 years, all the fans who he and all the rest of the Attitude era stars, had watching Raw have gone, and been replaced by a WWE Universe of 5 and 6 year old children..
Seems quite heelish of foley as he is basically ripping into the wwe's core audience at the mo.This obviously offends the entire WWE lockerroom,
The entire lockerroom? Even the heels? i cant see the likes of R truth or the miz disagreeing with foleys comments.
Especially as The Miz gave out about the rock in the same sense as cena did in the run up to mania this year.This would then set up the PPV.. Were each match would be part of the greater overall Theme, but would have a reasoning for the fued..
My first Match is a simple one, fast paced opener with plenty of spots,, and it's a pretty easy one for the crowd to get into...
REY MYSTERIO VS EVAN BOURNE VS SIN CARA
For me is the perfect opening match, Rey Mysterio is easily the most successful high flyer in WWE history, and a former World Champion.. And Cara is obviously Mysterio's logical successor for WWE, and imo Bourne is the best Highflyer in the world, so this match is a logical one for all men.. And this could help both Cara and Bourne get over even more with the WWE Universe..
Reason for the fued..
Mysterio is the top dog, Highflyer in WWE and both Sin Cara and Evan Bourne think they're better than him, and want to be seen by the WWE Universe as better than him
Good opener, but i dont get why this would be a "passing of the torch" idea, surely a rey/sin cara feud is going to happen soon enough anyway and will probably go on for a while.
This match would be golden if rey had retired before Sin Cara's debut imo.The second Match on my card is going to be a controversial one..[/B]
DANIEL BRYAN VS HHH
HHH is quite possibly the most hated man in the History of the IWC and Bryan Danielson is definitely the polar opposite, the most loved man with all smarks everywhere.. But other than that these two men could have an epic fued and the chance to work with HHH could be great for Bryan, as he already puts on the best matches on whatever show he's on, a match with HHH would be fantastic..
Reason for the Fued..
HHH see's Bryan has nothing but an overrated internet sensation.. Bryan sets out to earn HHH's respect, by beating him..
could be a viably great match, but HHH would have to be in full heel mode?
So the likelyhood of bryan going over would be pretty slim. Meaning he would have to go back down the card and the match would mean as much as jeff hardys championship match from raw in 2002 against triple h.
Randy Orton vs The Undertaker
Orton and Undertaker have fueded in the past, but Orton was never successful in beating the Deadman, now that Orton is a little older, and a little wiser he thinks he could win..
Reason for the fued..
Ortons ego.. He's never beaten Taker, and now thinks he can
Really? Never?
Steve Austin vs CM Punk..
This is a pretty obvious fued, Stone is the Beer drinking SOB, and Punk is the Straight Edge Superstar, than dichotomy alone just writes itself.. And a match with Austin could be whats finally needed to Put CM Punk in the upper echelon of the WWE
This seems to be only match on your card that has a passing of the torch feel to it. And without question would be epic.
But why? Sh!ts and giggles?
The Rock vs John Cena
Obviously this is already happening at Wrestlemania, but this match could happen again! (Would the concept of this PPV work?? Personally, i think so, because even as a one off PPV, its better than seeing 3 HIAC matches or 3 TLC matches on the one card.. And with PPV buys constantly taking a battering, i think this PPV would get enough fans, including older semi-fans interested in the PPV.. I would call the PPV.. "WWE.. This is NOW.." Because thats what it is, guys from the past, guys who will be around long into WWE's future completing against each other now..
I said at the top of my response that this concept is very familiar.
For example:
and:
These are examples that wwe have done a "passing of the torch" style event in the past on numerous raws and countless ppv throwaway matches like the above at wm 25.
The concept is good but it is dated at this stage.
Another example how wwe have already used this concept is that they released the game;
"WWE All Stars" with this exact kind of idea.
I suppose you could have called it "WWE ALL STARS PPV", if they hadnt have already had it on free television only a few months ago:
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Ok this wouldnt be an all out invasion type angle as such, as tna wrestlers arent trying to take over the wwe or try and ruin it or anything, they are just out to prove they are better.
Why would WWE let TNA talent on WWE televison? Why would Vince McMahon let his biggest competiton, appear on his TV show's? especially to just "prove they are better"???I also would say that invasion angles when orchestrated correctly, can work pretty well. In the sense that it has to make sense, will prove to be somewhat positive for each companies involved and have the major stars of each promotion involved.
Honestly they're very few examples of invasion angles working, because at the end of the day one side wins, and looks great and the other losing therefore look like sh*t, do you honestly think WWE and TNA would engage in that??Now if you consider not all of these elements were met with the 2001 invasion of the wwf, you would be right when you look back, but my angle works where that one did not.
Personally i think it doesnt, its a glorified Bragging Rights PPV, except without any chance of realistically happeningI should have mentioned, the fact that i havent got ex wwe wrestlers on the card isnt coincidence, i would have them working in the backgrounds of the angle but certainly not anywhere near the card.
Also, there would be a good four weeks of build up to the event, ample time for run ins and ways for the more casual wwe fan to get to know who each tna wrestler is and why they are against whoever.
I think a lot of more casual fans nowadays actually do know who tna is moreso than the fans (like you and me) did about say, wcw wrestlers. Kids and casual fans would know about tna because the likes of jeff, matt, rvd, anderson have all jumped ship over the years, if you were fans of them, your going to know where they are now, even if you dont care to watch it.
But the WWE casual fans would have only ever heard of the ex WWE talent, the rest of the TNA talent would mean fu*k all to them, at least with the WCW/ECW talent where all on similar levels exposure wise back in the 90's and early 00's.. Nowadays not so much.A valid point, but again i reiterate, i do not wish to have the same angle from 2001 play out in my angle. Tna wrestlers go back to tna and try to use some of the exposure to heighten their level. wwe goes back to wwe and reap the rewards of having a ppv do well and have a basis to set up new fresh rivalries.
But it would never happen, so what the point?? If your angle had of been something realistic like TNA vs ROH or TNA vs AAA in an invasion style angle i would have found it very hard to counter your originality, but WWE vs TNA is unlikely to happen until TNA ineviatably goes out of business. And by then what's really the point for WWE? TNA isnt in their league, its like Barcelona buying St Patricks Athletic, and fans wanting the St Pats players in the Barca team... Its pointless as they arent anywhere NEAR their league...This is less a tna invading wwe and more wwe invading tna to try and get their championship back. I understand the thought that not many would care if tna wrestlers were randomly to appear on some raw for no other reason than just to prove themselves better.
And that is exactly why i wrote it as such. WWE marks and/or cena marks would get behind how cena has lost his title and it could be potentially irretrievable.
Why would WWE lower themselves by allowing their title go near TNA? if anything Cena appearing in DGUSA or Evolve or ROH is likely, because noone would see it on TV, BUT at least the publicity would be good for the WWE because the smarks would cream themselves, and the casuals would be exposed to the indies.. Whereas why would WWE give their main competition( who have tried going head to head with WWE in the past) any exposure or ratings??No one would have to believe tna could beat wwe as again, there is nothing other to gain other than bragging rights for the undercard and then the big angle going into the main event, which really has, everything to play for.
For wwe to win this would mean they recover not only the title, but also that they dont lose cena, which would be huge.
But for tna the loss of having the wwe championship on their show doesnt have the same dramatic consequences as they never really fought for it, CM Punk just brought it to them.
But its unrealistic, and frankly bordering on science fictionI hope ive explained clear enough that in my angle its not a ppv like the one in 2001, where one company will reign supreme come the end of the 3 hour show, tna would still continue to be tna (hoping that rubbing shoulders with vince creatively rubs off on dixie and starts to understand why her company isnt excelling as it should.
WWE gets a chance to have a very succesful ppv that showcases something for all walks of the wwe fan spectrum.
Honestly WWE is the top PROMOTION IN THE WORLD... Why would it need to associate itself with TNA? Who barely have the forsight to book shows with a weeks worth of continuity.. And who because of Vince Russo still think its 1997The wwe/cena mark: where they will buy the ppv to see what happens with cena in the main event
No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPENThe casual fan who enjoys the whole package: they would enjoy the wrestling on the card, as it would be pretty stellar match ups.
No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPENThe internet smark: who, even though they will be completely un-relentless about saying how obvious it would be that cena isnt joining TNA, would love it because its one of those one off ppvs which would be a talking point for years. (just like the current punk angle or the rocks involvement at last and next years mania)
No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPENInteresting concept, but i think we have heard this one before..
It may not be original but i was going for an angle that has a realistic chance of actually happening, i could have booked some ridiculous OTT Russo wankfest, but whats the point if its not grounded in reality, which mine is... And not only that fans might actually enjoy itSeems quite heelish of foley as he is basically ripping into the wwe's core audience at the mo.
Not really
1) The PG era fans aka women and children will see it as heelish and boo Foley..
but that means
2) The male demographic will see Foley as the total face, saying thing's about WWE they and we(as fans) have all felt for a long time..
I feel this promo would be considerably apt considering what happened Monday night with CM Punks shoot promo, and i had actually invisioned Foleys promo being somewhat similar in tone..The entire lockerroom? Even the heels? i cant see the likes of R truth or the miz disagreeing with foleys comments.
Especially as The Miz gave out about the rock in the same sense as cena did in the run up to mania this year.
Foley ran down EVERYONE in the WWE, not just the faces, the point of my angle is that the Modern Era guys are now all on the same page.. And that the older guys would then be similarly unitedGood opener, but i dont get why this would be a "passing of the torch" idea, surely a rey/sin cara feud is going to happen soon enough anyway and will probably go on for a while.
This match would be golden if rey had retired before Sin Cara's debut imo.
Well Mysterio is literally on his last legs, his knee's could go at any moment, so the sooner they fued the better imo, and Rey shoild put people over before the sun sets on his career, so who better than Bourne and Mistico?could be a viably great match, but HHH would have to be in full heel mode?
So the likelyhood of bryan going over would be pretty slim. Meaning he would have to go back down the card and the match would mean as much as jeff hardys championship match from raw in 2002 against triple h.
HHH wouldnt neccesarily have to be full heel.. He would just have to underestimate Danielson.. And in doing so Bryan coul hav a flukey win, and then have HHH tap out in another match..
I'm getting old Punk.. My memories not quite what it used to be:pac:This seems to be only match on your card that has a passing of the torch feel to it. And without question would be epic.
Well i could have been unrealistic and booked Kurt Angle. Hulk Hogan, Sting, Andre the Giant, The Ultimate Warrior, Doink.... But honestly what would the point be?? I rather use what realistic tools are available and make the most out of what there is..But why? Sh!ts and giggles?
Again realism, Cena/Rock is boooked for Mania, and unless WWE but TNA by then, i cant change that match up from happening..I said at the top of my response that this concept is very familiar.
For example:
and:
These are examples that wwe have done a "passing of the torch" style event in the past on numerous raws and countless ppv throwaway matches like the above at wm 25.
The concept is good but it is dated at this stage.
Not really AUSTIN, ROCK, HHH, TAKER.. Havnt put many of the current superstars over, its about time the did.. Especially since all their careers have ether ended or are winding down, NOW IS THE TIME..Another example how wwe have already used this concept is that they released the game;
"WWE All Stars" with this exact kind of idea.
I suppose you could have called it "WWE ALL STARS PPV", if they hadnt have already had it on free television only a few months ago:
I much prefer real life than Videogames to be honest with you bud..
And with that i must say thanks to CM Punked for the great debate and everyone for reading:cool::)0 -
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waltersobchak wrote: »Why would WWE let TNA talent on WWE televison? Why would Vince McMahon let his biggest competiton, appear on his TV show's? especially to just "prove they are better"???
Why did he let ECW, a very very small time company run around his monday night raw arenas back in 1997?
You seem to be going backward on your earlier point that "TNA are the number 2 company more so by default than success" and now your saying that they are big competition?
McMahon has said in interviews and on dvds that the success of the business relies on their being a hungry competition. Its also one of the reasons why he was depositing money into paul heymans bank account, so he could keep ecw afloat when it was on its last legs. I would believe that vince, being who he is, would want tna to become the number 2 company by success rather than default.Honestly they're very few examples of invasion angles working, because at the end of the day one side wins, and looks great and the other losing therefore look like sh*t, do you honestly think WWE and TNA would engage in that??
Not exactly, my above example of the 1997 ecw angle shows how it can pay off for both companies. ECW got some exposure and it didnt hurt wwf at all in the slightest.Personally i think it doesnt, its a glorified Bragging Rights PPV, except without any chance of realistically happening
Of course it could happen. And i think calling it a glorified bragging rights ppv might, from your point, sound like an insult, but i wouldnt take it as such, quite the opposite, the bragging rights concept was one that wwe writers found sufficient enough to run as an annual ppv.
But thats going a little off course; My angle works as it has the back bone talent which tna was built on, it has a sound structure and the outcome would make both companies look good.
WWE got back the gold and TNA were strong in the process.But the WWE casual fans would have only ever heard of the ex WWE talent, the rest of the TNA talent would mean fu*k all to them, at least with the WCW/ECW talent where all on similar levels exposure wise back in the 90's and early 00's.. Nowadays not so much.
The casual wwe fans are being given a chance to get to know the tna talent, unlike the fans back in the early 00s who couldnt get behind wcw talent as there was no wcw at the time.
Ive said it already, vince always wants competition, so he gives them a bit of a talent that hopefully, one day, will be big enough that they can really compete against each other.
If tna dont, fail miserably and vince does end up buying the library just for the hell of it in 5+ years, then theres no loss on his part.Why would WWE lower themselves by allowing their title go near TNA? if anything Cena appearing in DGUSA or Evolve or ROH is likely, because noone would see it on TV, BUT at least the publicity would be good for the WWE because the smarks would cream themselves, and the casuals would be exposed to the indies.. Whereas why would WWE give their main competition( who have tried going head to head with WWE in the past) any exposure or ratings??
WWE are teasing the punk might, if he wins at MITB, bring the title to some other company. And with that being teased, it isnt completely unrealistic that theres the possibility that it could happen.
Kinda like when RVD won the title from cena and brought it to the ecw brand, sure it was only for a few weeks, but vince made it work.Honestly WWE is the top PROMOTION IN THE WORLD... Why would it need to associate itself with TNA? Who barely have the forsight to book shows with a weeks worth of continuity.. And who because of Vince Russo still think its 1997
It doesnt need to associate itself with TNA, but (again) it isnt going to hurt the wwe image if it did.No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
No they wont because... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
I would have thought you could have constructed a valid argument as to why you would disagree with my points rather than just copy and paste the same thing for each idea.
But regardless i will respond, it could happen, and it could be something special. It could be one of the biggest things that has happened in recent memory. Imagine the shockwaves if vince was to give the go ahead for my ppv to happen, it would be HUGE for everyone involved. And whos to say he wouldnt, the man has surprised fans in the past. (like when it was revealed that he partly funded ecw, as i mentioned before.)
Its interesting as this is the last thing you said about my concept was that ^^, it seems you ran out of any real counter arguments to put forward. :PIt may not be original but i was going for an angle that has a realistic chance of actually happening, but whats the point if its not grounded in reality, which mine is... And not only that fans might actually enjoy it
Your right, it would have a chance of happening, had it not happened repeatedly already. If the wwe were ever looking for a throwaway ppv which really would probably mean nothing in a few months time, i suppose they could use that idea.
My angle is grounded in reality, Punks promo on raw happened, Mick Foleys shoot on the wwe lockerroom, has not.Not really
1) The PG era fans aka women and children will see it as heelish and boo Foley..
but that means
2) The male demographic will see Foley as the total face, saying thing's about WWE they and we(as fans) have all felt for a long time..
So when all is said and done, and all the younger talent goes over as you said(later on), the older fans once again feel shafted in favour of the younger fans.Foley ran down EVERYONE in the WWE, not just the faces, the point of my angle is that the Modern Era guys are now all on the same page.. And that the older guys would then be similarly united
So what your saying is... Its team new, vs team old?
And they are wrestling for.. bragging rights? :P:PHHH wouldnt neccesarily have to be full heel.. He would just have to underestimate Danielson.. And in doing so Bryan coul hav a flukey win, and then have HHH tap out in another match..
This is HHH we're talking about, i wouldnt expect him to let DB win clean, if win at all. He let Taker make him tap out of respect at WM, does he respect DB enough to let him submit him?I'm getting old Punk.. My memories not quite what it used to be:pac:
No comment. :pac:Well i could have been unrealistic and booked Kurt Angle. Hulk Hogan, Sting, Andre the Giant, The Ultimate Warrior, Doink.... But honestly what would the point be?? I rather use what realistic tools are available and make the most out of what there is..
I would hope that the idea of pitting andre vs big show in a tlc match never crossed your mind.
But i think you could have been somewhat a little bit more adventurous with your match making.Not really AUSTIN, ROCK, HHH, TAKER.. Havnt put many of the current superstars over, its about time the did.. Especially since all their careers have ether ended or are winding down, NOW IS THE TIME..
Austin and Rock put over jericho in the same night, granted you could argue that was a few years ago at this stage, but putting someone over would only really matter if the wrestler is about to, or has just recently stepped away from the ring.
Also rock will already have put cena over at wm next year, so having the ppv with the idea that younger stars are going to get to go toe to toe with the older guys, would it not make more sense if it was someone else against the rock?
Say, the miz? :pac:And with that i must say thanks to CM Punked for the great debate and everyone for reading:cool::)
I thoroughly enjoyed this round of ATH and spent a long time going over ideas in my head about what would be a scenario i would like to see be played out in a ppv.
At this stage i will admit that having a younger stars vs older stars had crossed my mind and when i put down the pros and cons it was obvious had i presented my argument to walter, he would have ripped me to pieces.
The main counter argument being that it has been done many times before, repetitiveness plus predictability being probably the number one reason ppvs are failing these days, walters concept is "wwe bragging rights all stars this is now.. again".
In closing i will end with this:
Remember raw 15th anniversary? yeah it was pretty cool, seeing old guys with the new guys.
Remember the 2001 invasion? Of course you do, it was awesome.
Still undecided? Remember, i have Zack Ryder on my card.. :cool::cool:
WWWYKI!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQek6NHdezE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbITTTdrAc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWOO0M9YSAw
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