450 EURO / BUILD / HELP

kahf1_01

hey sorry to invade this. I built a PC about 2-3 years ago. So I'm really out of touch with stuff, since the tech is evolving so rapidly. And I've nearly forgotten everything.

with a 450 EURO budget (im a student) could you guys piece together something handy for me to order. I hope to game quiet a bit this summer. and Im an ati lad, not nvidia ;p but if you feel nividia are better feel free to add it in.

cheers,

deconduo

Do you need Windows, a monitor, mouse/keyboard? Any other special requirements apart from gaming?

Assuming just a basic build, something like this would work:

Total build cost: €406.46 + €30 shipping
4GB GEIL Value Plus PC3-10660 DDR3-1333 CL9 €29.57
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Box, Sockel AM3 €94.38
ASUS M4A78LT LE, Sockel AM3, ATX €52.39
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €17.78
Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB, SATA II (HD502HJ) €33.59
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W €41.46
Xigmatek Asgard, ATX, ohne Netzteil, schwarz €31.61
XFX RADEON HD 5770 1GB DDR5 DP HDMI DUAL DVI €89.69
Cooler Master Hyper TX3, alle Sockel €15.99

kahf1_01

got a monitor, keyboard/mouse as for the OS, I'll be experimenting with ubuntu, and I've got a few old copies of xp, and vista around the place.


taking price out of the equation, would you reckon the amd cpu is stronger than the corei5. and does that cpu ship with a standard cooler

kahf1_01

how does this look, recommend it? or any problems

deconduo

-The i5-650 is not worth the money, it has the same perforance as the X4 955 for €50 more
-The RAM I linked is cheaper for the same performance
-If you only need 250GB thats fine, but its only €4 more for twice as much space
-Bad case, the Xigmatek Asgard is infinitely better for €8 more
-As I said, you should be looking at an AM3 build for that pricerange
-DVD burner is fine
-The 5770 is a much better card for €3 more.
-You don't have any PSU

The i5-2400 and the i5-2500k are better chips than the Phenom II X4, but on a budget build they are way out of your pricerange. The build I linked above is the best price/performance I think you will get for €450.

merc.ie

Here's another with a better graphics card and a motherboard capable of using the upcoming Bulldozer chips (4-8 cores). Comes to €464 excluding delivery.

kahf1_01

is the single 4GB stick, less effective than 2x2GB's. if the sticks run in parallel in the same DIMM slots I heard you get better performance, or is that just a myth

Fluffy88

Having 2x2Gb is better when you are using Dual Channel Memory as it's made to work over two channels, not one

kahf1_01

btw decondo what are the specs of ur PC
and can the 5770 really handle new games well, I've got a 1440x900 monitor if that helps. what's the equalivent of the 5770 in nivida standards. would 450W's really be enough to power to stabalise that system. Also, I've never worked with an AMD socket, so it's new ground, so bear with me ;p the SDRAM, is that only new to AMD? does the ram have to be compatible with the board for amd. or could you just purchase any old ram.

Finally decondo, I noticed you threw in a CPU cooler there, I haven't a CLUE about over clocking, so would it be worth leaving that out, saving 15 quid.

deconduo

Oh I missed that it was a single stick, sorry about that nice catch. This would be better then:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28039&agid=1192

The Nvidia equivalent would be between a 450 and a 460 786MB. Just read up on tech websites etc. to learn about stuff.

kahf1_01

Ah. so how long would you reckon these germans' could get out here to Ireland. they use DHL? so 1-2 weeks?

deconduo

Last build I ordered on the 15th and it got here on the 20th. I think it takes longer for your first order however.

Daniel S

kahf1_01 wrote: »

would 450W's really be enough to power to stabalise that system.

I'm running a few fans, AMD Athlon II 240 @ 3.4ghz (Stock cooler too, temps around 33c normally ) and a ATi 5830 (More power hungry than a 5770) on a Corsair 400 watt.

Also there's two hard drives and a dvd burner.

kahf1_01

I once ordered with eBuyer, it took a near 2 weeks to order a few parts. horrible service, plus they called our country, "EIRE" what a joke. Hopefully these Germans will treat us a bit better.

I read somewhere that the actaul amount of watt's don't "really" matter, it's more about the rails and volts and stuff, so you reckon that german PSU could handle the above system?

Usally when I turn on my PC, it's on the whole day, with about 2-3 hours of gameply (max) that's pretty intensive for a 450W PSU. in my opinion:pac:

deconduo

You won't get anywhere near the 450W on that system that I specced. It probably won't even hit 250-300W. The problem is that there are no good PSUs cheaper than that 450W.

kahf1_01

deconduo wrote: »

You won't get anywhere near the 450W on that system that I specced. It probably won't even hit 250-300W. The problem is that there are no good PSUs cheaper than that 450W.

would you recommend overclocking it, ( i.e the GPU, CPU) if I got some technician in to do it?

deconduo

With the Phenom 955 you can overclock using the multiplier so its pretty easy and not very dangerous. You can get 3.6-3.8GHz clocks without doing anything like messing with the voltages.

kahf1_01

deconduo wrote: »

With the Phenom 955 you can overclock using the multiplier so its pretty easy and not very dangerous. You can get 3.6-3.8GHz clocks without doing anything like messing with the voltages.

can that overclock be done on the stock cooler? or would I need to dish out the 15 quid on the better external cooler (freezer pro I think it's called)

Fluffy88

Who ever said it doesn't matter is lying :P

The most common form of PSU's used in computers today use Rails to deliver power to the different wires(sorry I am not very good with explaining). A single rail could supply both the +5V and +3V lines. Say that rail had an output of 150W and your PSU says it's a 450W then that leave 300W to supply all the other rails. So no single wire on a PSU is capable of supplying 450W of power, in fact it will probably never be able to supply 450W of power at all, when it's in your computer.

And a PSU is most efficient when it's operating at around 50% capacity, so getting a 500W PSU for a system that pulls 250W on average will save on ESB costs

Sorry for not making sense, just read this article if you want to understand
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-Power-Supplies/181/

kahf1_01

Yeah I see your point. I occasionally pick up a copy of the "custom-pc" magazine in tesco. They explained in detail, that, if you buy say a 750W PSU, your very likey not going to get the the full pallet of 750W, thus . . . my concern with that system that decondo spec'ed - would that 450W PSU, be able to cough up enough power for that system. A 5770 and a over'clocked CPU.

Furthermore, guys, is that memory compatible with that AMD mobo. I think it has to be SDRAM (or something) which I think it is, but the memory speeds aren't compatible with the mobo, I think. could anyone confirm that.

Lastly, fluffy, should I throw in the CPU cooler for the extra 15 quid, if I dare to do some overclocking in the future? or should I leave it out

deconduo

Even if you don't plan on overclocking, get a proper heatsink means a quieter machine. That memory is perfectly fine, any DDR3 kit is compatible with an AM3 motherboard.

The 450W is overkill for that setup, even with insane overclocking, dont worry

Fluffy88

Yup I agree with deconduo. If your gonna do any oc'ing get the heatsink, it will be worth it. And the PSU should be fine, not that I would know anyway :P

kahf1_01

would there be any benefit to having a AMD combo, that being the GPU paired with the GPU? does that increase performance.

In relation to the GPU, I was looking a few vids on youtube with the 5770 performance, it's decent, but when it comes to good games on high res's it struggles a bit, so seeing as I'm a few cuid under budget, what would be the next best card, after the 5770?

Lu Tze

Unless you are planning on getting a new monitor i wouldnt worry about the graphics card. I had one for a while - was pretty decent, managed minimum of 25-30 fps in just cause 2 at 1080p on high details. For your monitor you should be able to set everything on highest and still get a decent fps

Monotype

kahf1_01 wrote: »

they called our country, "EIRE" what a joke. Hopefully these Germans will treat us a bit better.

What's wrong with that? It says Éire on all the stamps, so I'd assume that's pretty normal.

kahf1_01 wrote: »

would there be any benefit to having a AMD combo, that being the GPU paired with the GPU? does that increase performance.

GPU with CPU? The only advantage is that AMD boards with AMD chipsets up to now (the 900 series) don't support nVidia SLI but do support crossfire of multiple cards. The board here only has one slot so you won't be having multiple cards.

In relation to the GPU, I was looking a few vids on youtube with the 5770 performance, it's decent, but when it comes to good games on high res's it struggles a bit, so seeing as I'm a few cuid under budget, what would be the next best card, after the 5770?

You won't have much problems with the 5770 at 1440x900. The next card up is the 6850, but it's €35 dearer. The Sparkle GTX460 768MB looks like a good deal to me. I haven't seen sparkle around as a brand for a while. I've seen pretty mixed comments about them in the past, so you might need to dig around and weigh the odds.

kahf1_01

Not to keen on cross-fire anyway tbh. Worked with it in the past, doesn't deliver a huge amount of performace in comparsion to a single card slot. It requires alot of tweaking with the set-up.

would that GTX card work on that AMD mobo?
I recently got a new monitor, 1900x1080 (or something) you think the 5770 could handle that, or should I opt for the 6850? if it's worth the price/performance difference

kahf1_01

k, sorry for double post, but I've got quiet a difficult question: would that a 450W PSU, be able to handle the 6850 (if I did upgrade from the 5770) or is the 6850 overkill, would I require maybe 500-550W? And, do you reckon the AMD Phenmon II X4, would " bottle-neck " with that powerful graphic card?

Tough questions, sorry

deconduo

The Super Flower Amazon 450W will run an overclocked 955 + any single GPU up to a GTX 470. A 6850 is absolutely no problem for it.

The Phenom won't be bottlenecked in most games by a 6850, it would be the other way around if anything.

Monotype

For HD resolution, a 6850 or 460 1GB would be advisable. You would be ok with the 5770 still, but would need to turn down the details a bit.

kahf1_01

I read up on the Phenomon II X4 it seems pretty weak in todays world, would I be better off going for a Core i3 with a cheap LGA 1156 mobo, so I would have some good future proof for upgrading.

Thinking about the AMD mobo, there's hardly any good CPU I could upgrade in the future with

deconduo

LGA 1156 is just bad now, you shouldn't be looking at it at all. The only other thing you should be looking at is LGA 1155. You could get an i3-2100, but an overclocked 955 beats it in pretty much everything. At stock speeds the i3 is better for gaming, but it can't really be overclocked.

If you are worried about upgradability you can simply get an AM3+ motherboard which will allow you to get a bulldozer CPU down the line.

kahf1_01

deconduo wrote: »

LGA 1156 is just bad now, you shouldn't be looking at it at all. The only other thing you should be looking at is LGA 1155. You could get an i3-2100, but an overclocked 955 beats it in pretty much everything. At stock speeds the i3 is better for gaming, but it can't really be overclocked.

If you are worried about upgradability you can simply get an AM3+ motherboard which will allow you to get a bulldozer CPU down the line.

The LGA 1155 Core i3 looks tempting (as it's the same price) but I'm having difficulty picking out a mobo. [ link http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articlesearch.jsp?agid=1601&search.reset=1&search.sKey= /link ]

I feel the intel combo would be great for upgradability - as I'm clueless about this "bulldozer" thing, I take it that is some kinda CPU, the codename perhaps?

kahf1_01

Basically it's a choice between this:

- The intel combo or
- The AMD combo

deconduo

kahf1_01 wrote: »

The LGA 1155 Core i3 looks tempting (as it's the same price) but I'm having difficulty picking out a mobo. [ link http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articlesearch.jsp?agid=1601&search.reset=1&search.sKey= /link ]

I feel the intel combo would be great for upgradability - as I'm clueless about this "bulldozer" thing, I take it that is some kinda CPU, the codename perhaps?

As far as I know, and I could be wrong about this, the only upgrade path for current LGA 1155 motherboards would be the higher end Sandy Bridge chips (i5-2500k or i7-2600k) While Ivy Bridge will use both LGA 1155 and 2011, I don't think it will support the current motherboards.

If you are looking to upgrade, I would still recommend the Phenom + an AM3+ motherboard.

Edit: Upon further research, they should support Ivy Bridge with a BIOS update

Monotype

If you're getting a 1155 board, get a decent P67 or Z68 board. I agree that AM3+ would seem to be the best path on that budget.

kahf1_01

Thanks for all the help guys, especially deconduo and fluffy. I'll order and build it, when back from hol's. I'll let ye all know how I got on.

Slim Shady

deconduo wrote: »

You won't get anywhere near the 450W on that system that I specced. It probably won't even hit 250-300W. The problem is that there are no good PSUs cheaper than that 450W.

Its always nice to have extra power. Say in a few months he upgrades to a GTX 580 or another high power card.

deconduo

Slim Shady wrote: »

Its always nice to have extra power. Say in a few months he upgrades to a GTX 580 or another high power card.

He's speccing out a €450 budget machine and you think in a few months time he can afford to spash out €400 for a single card?

Slim Shady

deconduo wrote: »

He's speccing out a €450 budget machine and you think in a few months time he can afford to spash out €400 for a single card?

Who knows money might come his way, a gift etc.
All I'm saying is that it is always nicer to have that extra bit of power to allow upgrading in the future.

deconduo

Slim Shady wrote: »

Who knows money might come his way, a gift etc.
All I'm saying is that it is always nicer to have that extra bit of power to allow upgrading in the future.

If you have €1000+ to spend maybe. On a budget you want to squeeze out every last drop of performance possible. Wasting 15% of your budget on a better PSU for a theoretical future upgrade is not what you want to do.

Either way, CPU or an SSD would be a better upgrade instead of a 580. A 580 would be completely unbalanced compared to the other parts.

merc.ie

See post #6 :P

Phenom 2 x4 955, AM3+ motherboard, 6850, 550W PSU. €465 excluding delivery.

Monotype

^That's a very solid system. Plenty of room in the PSU for upgrades, good GPU and decent board with SATA 6Gbps (good for SSD upgrades), USB 3 and next generation AMD CPU compatibility. This is a much better solution than an i3 and some cut down board.
It's over budget, coming to €495 delivered, but I think it's worthwhile.