Is saorview going to drop the Regular EPG in favor of an MHEG5 ONLY one?

liamtech

Its been touched on before but i think it warrants discussion - Several of my friends have gone for the Ariva 120 combo - Several others are using various combo & terrestrial units including:

Ariva 200
Technisat Digyboxx T4
Ariva T50
Ariva T60
Triax ST-HD527 (The working triax combi!)
Sigmatek DVB-T HD

Obviously what im getting at is the current Standard DVB EPG - Is this likely to be discontinued over time? Obviously if it is then several MAJOR features of the above units (Which are all Splendid i might add) will be non functional:

Users will no longer be able to schedule recordings for one thing - Thats going to seriously hamper these boxes, would you agree?

desaparecidos

They should aim to keep standards as open as possible.

If they do intend to use an MHEG5 EPG, then the "standard" EPG should still be carried, with MHEG5 merely overlaying a common EPG interface for certified hardware.

liamtech

desaparecidos wrote: »

They should aim to keep standards as open as possible.

If they do intend to use an MHEG5 EPG, then the "standard" EPG should still be carried, with MHEG5 merely overlaying a common EPG interface for certified hardware.

THey should do that i agree - But will they?
Their obvious aim is to encourage certified boxes - an MHEG5 ONLY epg would obviously further these goals - IM just concerned - May of these IRISH DTT compatible boxes are VERY good - I especially like a friends Technisat DigyBoxx T4 - IT gives stacks of info on stream type, bit rate, etc - People like myself with Freeview HD boxes will obviously be fine - but i reckon a large majority are using NON MHEG5 boxes

byte

desaparecidos wrote: »

They should aim to keep standards as open as possible.

If they do intend to use an MHEG5 EPG, then the "standard" EPG should still be carried, with MHEG5 merely overlaying a common EPG interface for certified hardware.

Yeah, I agree.

watty

Any MHEG5 EPG will likely use the existing EPG (DVB-EIT) as the data source. Unlike Freesat which is proprietary.

but i reckon a large majority are using NON MHEG5 boxes

May not be true. Certainly won't be true by ASO. Also more and more TVs are directly compatible.

People were however told here before Oct 2010 and on RTE website before launch that MHEG5 is a mandatory part of minimum spec. Even if EPG is on DVB-EIT forever people are advised to only get Saorview certified, or at least Nordig 2.0 + MHEG5 compatible.

liamtech

watty wrote: »

Any MHEG5 EPG will likely use the existing EPG (DVB-EIT) as the data source. Unlike Freesat which is proprietary.


May not be true. Certainly won't be true by ASO. Also more and more TVs are directly compatible.

People were however told here before Oct 2010 and on RTE website before launch that MHEG5 is a mandatory part of minimum spec. Even if EPG is on DVB-EIT forever people are advised to only get Saorview certified, or at least Nordig 2.0 + MHEG5 compatible.

I agree with everything you have said - BUT!

Many people are going for combo boxes which are 99% NON MHEG5 - Aside from the old ST-HD537, they are ALL NON_MHEG5 compatible - I dont use one, im fully MHEG5 on both fronts (FREESAT and DTT). But those Irish DTT ready Combi's and Terrestrial only boxes are massively popular especially the new kid on the block the 120 Ariva -

watty

No, they are not "massively popular".

liamtech

watty wrote: »

No, they are not "massively popular".

Really - So you would maintain that most of the users are using certified or fully compatible gear then -

With all due respect watty i disagree..

• many users are not content with having two separate boxes -(satellite and DTT) - Their preference will ALWAYS be a combi box - all but one of the combi boxes available are not MHEG5 compatible -
• There are currently only a few certified set top boxes available - NONE OF WHICH ARE PARTICULARLY GOOD! YOu only have to look on boards to see people having issues - there is a MASSIVE amount of tried and tested, high quality NON-MHEG5 gear out there - whats more its cheaper, and in some cases better branded - i mean lets face it most of the "Saorview certified gear" are the same VESTEL box rebranded and being sold by different stores

Obviously when it comes to iDTV's thats another matter -

But for anyone with an interest in recording, time shifting or scheduling, its gotta be an Set top box - And at the moment non of them are particularly good

bk

watty wrote: »

No, they are not "massively popular".

They are certainly more popular then Saorview certified boxes at the moment.

And I think even as ASO approaches, combi boxes will continue to make up a very large percentage of boxes out there, perhaps as high as 50%.

As liamtech says, people will prefer to have the UK channels in addition to the Irish channels and people will prefer to have it all in one box.

The only thing that will change this will be a well integrated Freesat + Saorview or Freesat + Saorsat box.

That is the holy grail.

watty

bk wrote: »

They are certainly more popular then Saorview certified boxes at the moment.

And I think even as ASO approaches, combi boxes will continue to make up a very large percentage of boxes out there, perhaps as high as 50%.

Obviously this might be the perception from this forum. But are there any reliable figures to back this up?

bk wrote: »

As liamtech says, people will prefer to have the UK channels in addition to the Irish channels and people will prefer to have it all in one box.

The only thing that will change this will be a well integrated Freesat + Saorview or Freesat + Saorsat box.

That is the holy grail.

Yes.

If someone doesn't produce it soon, I will If I do, it will be

• Internal disc PVR only, but available without disc, and disk slot in like a laptop or blade server SATA.
• 1Gbps Ethernet (no WiFi) for LAN (buy your own Gbps Switch)
• 100Mbps Ethernet (Option with Firewall/Router SW for direct Cable modem or Bridged DSL etc..)
• USB 2.0 host for USB stick or SD card playback (USB SD card adapter supplied)
• HDMI 1920x1080p 50Hz only. Sorry no SCART, so can't get Saorview / Freesat approval.
• MHEG5 and BBC Interactive Video (but sadly not Freesat auto Tuning)
• Freesat EPG as long as they don't encrypt it (if they do, then Internet + Digiguide sub needed, but integrated).
• Included remote not as good as Sky for TV control, but will do a lot of TVs. (An IR LED plugged into Set box controls TV or other gear via OSD selection, Remote is not reprogrammed).
• Option to use some other remotes and control home automation via OSD.
• User profiles for Favourites, video & audio settings, Browser bookmarks/History and email accounts.
• Internet Browser with Flash, Java and Javascript.
• Pop3 /SMTP Email clients
• Media player.
• Video Streaming Server and Client.
• Works with Wireless QWERTY
• Dual DVB-S2 tuner with Diseqc (but not GoToX or USALs)
• Dual DVB-T2 (works DVB-T) Tuners.
• Built in Sat/TV diplexer option.
• FM Radio with memories, OSD, scheduling (If there is demand LW/MW/SW AM/SSB could be option module).
• RTE and BBC players if possible. If not a OSD/GUI that uses the web links as if there is.
• Option slot at front for DVD/CD recorder/BD player or BD/DVD/CD recorder/player. (SATA maybe IDE too). Standard PC 5.25" mount.

MACHEAD

A receiver with that kind of spec would some piece of kit Watty. I guess it would take a 'brave dragon' to front up the kind of investment required to tool up an assembly plant for that. I like the idea of 'slotting in' a standard 5.25" optical drive, leaving the user to choose what spec they need/want. If something like that was available to buy, I'd certainty be interested.

John mac

that would do me fine.

maybe usb 3 instead of usb 2 though,

MACHEAD

USB 2 is usually fast enough for most video transfer needs. If data transfer is a major issue, Firewire is the the better option, as over a period of time USB speed drops, the longer it runs for, the more the speed tails off. Firewire has no such problem. Of course technically this is somewhat academical now, as both USB & Firewire have been surpassed by Thunderbolt.

liamtech

watty wrote: »

Obviously this might be the perception from this forum. But are there any reliable figures to back this up?




Yes.

If someone doesn't produce it soon, I will If I do, it will be

• Internal disc PVR only, but available without disc, and disk slot in like a laptop or blade server SATA.
• 1Gbps Ethernet (no WiFi) for LAN (buy your own Gbps Switch)
• 100Mbps Ethernet (Option with Firewall/Router SW for direct Cable modem or Bridged DSL etc..)
• USB 2.0 host for USB stick or SD card playback (USB SD card adapter supplied)
• HDMI 1920x1080p 50Hz only. Sorry no SCART, so can't get Saorview / Freesat approval.
• MHEG5 and BBC Interactive Video (but sadly not Freesat auto Tuning)
• Freesat EPG as long as they don't encrypt it (if they do, then Internet + Digiguide sub needed, but integrated).
• Included remote not as good as Sky for TV control, but will do a lot of TVs. (An IR LED plugged into Set box controls TV or other gear via OSD selection, Remote is not reprogrammed).
• Option to use some other remotes and control home automation via OSD.
• User profiles for Favourites, video & audio settings, Browser bookmarks/History and email accounts.
• Internet Browser with Flash, Java and Javascript.
• Pop3 /SMTP Email clients
• Media player.
• Video Streaming Server and Client.
• Works with Wireless QWERTY
• Dual DVB-S2 tuner with Diseqc (but not GoToX or USALs)
• Dual DVB-T2 (works DVB-T) Tuners.
• Built in Sat/TV diplexer option.
• FM Radio with memories, OSD, scheduling (If there is demand LW/MW/SW AM/SSB could be option module).
• RTE and BBC players if possible. If not a OSD/GUI that uses the web links as if there is.
• Option slot at front for DVD/CD recorder/BD player or BD/DVD/CD recorder/player. (SATA maybe IDE too). Standard PC 5.25" mount.

GIMME GIMME GIMME, i want it! in fact I WANT TWO!!!

What we are obviously screaming out for is a FreeviewHD/FreesatHD + set top box -
Combos are fairly popular in england (NOT AS POPULAR AS ELSEWHERE OBVIOUSLY) - a product like that would certainly sell, and WOULD BE ... AS FAR AS IRELAND IS CONCERNED - THE ONE!

"ONE SET-TOP-BOX, TO RULE THEM ALL"

Dumdum McCarthy

liamtech wrote: »

GIMME GIMME GIMME, i want it! in fact I WANT TWO!!!

What we are obviously screaming out for is a FreeviewHD/FreesatHD + set top box -
Combos are fairly popular in england (NOT AS POPULAR AS ELSEWHERE OBVIOUSLY) - a product like that would certainly sell, and WOULD BE ... AS FAR AS IRELAND IS CONCERNED - THE ONE!

"ONE SET-TOP-BOX, TO RULE THEM ALL"

Is it possible to buy a freesat hd box with saorview at the moment? Will the likes of aldi bring it out next year?
Or are ye saying somebody out there is producing them at the moment somewhere?
Will rte ever allow there stations to be shown on the freeview hd sat network?

liamtech

Dumdum McCarthy wrote: »

Is it possible to buy a freesat hd box with saorview at the moment? Will the likes of aldi bring it out next year?
Or are ye saying somebody out there is producing them at the moment somewhere?
Will rte ever allow there stations to be shown on the freeview hd sat network?

RTE will more than likely NEVER be on freesat - The only possibility is the RTE international channel which was supposed to be on the drawing board ages ago - no sign yet - I must add that this would only have shown certain RTE stuff - News, Frontline, primetime, certain other home grown items etc

As to a Truely Saorview Freesat box - Unlikely to be a Saorview/Freesat box, as Freesat is a British License payer package -

The only possibility of true compatible system, would be a Freeview+HD/Freesat+HD - This would be 99.999% Compatible with Saorview, and 100% Freesat -

Freesat and Freeview are to separate entities in the UK - But i suppose its a possibility - One thing is for certain if this hypothetical box ever came out it would be a fairly popular in the UK... but LITERALLY THE HOLY GRAIL IN IRELAND

Antenna

watty wrote: »

[*]HDMI 1920x1080p 50Hz only. Sorry no SCART, so can't get Saorview / Freesat approval.[/LIST]

Watty, why do you say 50Hz only, we may have 60Hz video to play from USB stick!
also why explicitly would there be no SCART? The percentage of TVs in use with no HDMI is very high. Even if the TV has HDMI, some may wish to connect a SCART to other existing equipment (recorders)

You probably don't agree but - if the STB also had a modulator and compatibility with Sky Eyes it would be very useful to many people, for bedroom TVs etc

watty

SD & Scart & Modulator is a LOT Extra cost.
Yes it will do 60FPS too. But Broadcast is all 25fps 50Hz, hence the comment.

For bedroom TV get a media player (PS3, XBox, PC, other) on your LAN and stream from it.

bk

Watty, please build this now

My only concern is cost, sounds like an expensive box and therefore would fall just a little short of the holy grail.

I thought the Freesat EPG was encrypted, our at least "scrambled" and that is why non of the cheap sat and combi boxes have it?

Really if we could jsut get the full 7 day Freesat EPG working on cheap combi boxes like the Eddison, it would probably satisfy most peoples needs.

Personally I'm still waiting for the perfect, idiot proof solution for my parents. Watty please create it

watty

No, Freesat EPG is obfusticated and compressed using Huffman encoding to reduce bitrate (lossless compression like PNG or TIF or ZIP in a way). It's not yet actually encrypted. They need ofcom permission to encrypt as it's FTA system.

Only licence holders get the proper spec and authorisation to officially claim they support it. Any non-Freesat approved thing is breaking Trademark to claim "Freesat compatible EPG".

In basic config a bit more than 1/2 cost of VU Duo. In full config similar cost to Freesat or Freeview HD PVR with BD recorder, maybe less.

None of the cheap or expensive combi have MHEG5 either and that is open and free to use. Except the "ill-fated" basic but over priced buggy Triax ST-537.

What I have does EPG, crashes currently on BBC interactive video but works on all other RTE & BBC Interactive, has full EPG info of both Freesat and Saorview, records, has remote web control, Full IR Remote, Universal Remote via IR emitter plugged in (the box rather than remote is programmed for other devices ), ethernet, dual DVB-S2 and dual DTT, record scheduling, nice OSD, picture, audio and video playback, streaming server or client. Even Card reader (via serial port at the mo!). The card reader can in theory be used with a Softcam (phoenix compatible), but I have only ever read phone SIM on it (tape sim into regular card sized carrier, same interface basically). The card reader might not be fast enough for real life pay TV sub, and IMO waste for Sky, better to use Sky HD box if you have sky.

But it's not ready for Joe Public. I'll wait and see what the Autumn brings and what the issues are with Saorsat.

Maybe a Humax Freesat HD PVR with Diseqc and firmware upgrade for Freesat + Saorsat is a better route.

I'm recommend nothing other than don't rush into spending much and regard Combos with no MHEG5 as dumb disposable boxes.