Do the crime face the ???

cyrusdvirus

Stemming on from the 4 burglars thread.

Capital punishment.

In 1990 Ireland abolished the Death Penalty, and in 2002 it was removed from the Stature Books by a referendum.

I asked the question should we have done that, given that we are sending the Gardai out with radios (that according to some members i know are not the greatest or most reliable) and nightsticks. Once upon a time a Garda had the relative comfort of knowing that if someone DID manage to murder/kill him in the line of duty, then the Death Penalty was an option for the state.

That has been taken away, so now how should we punish people who ARE guilty of a capital crime, ie murder of a foreign diplomat, murder or a TD, Murder of a Garda or Soldier in the course of their duties, Treason.

Someone suggested exile on an Oil rig.

DaveDaRave

Why does someones job effect how their murderer will be punished.
All lives are equally important.

pragmatic1

The US still has the death penalty in many states and it doesnt seem to be much of a deterrent. Personally I'd rather get the death penalty than spend my life in prison.

Naikon

DaveDaRave wrote: »

All lives are equally important.

Tell that to our arabian friends.

Sorry, but I can't agree with killing people to show that killing people is wrong.

Time & rehab - and I do mean actual time, not suspended sentences or a year here and there. Particularly if there are previous convictions.

cyrusdvirus

That's what I'm asking, Bluewolf.

The Death penalty is gone, and as part of the EU we cannot bring it back, it's as simple as that.

What do we use instead?

Look at that lad who killed the Garda in Donegal last year, he drove at him, in a stolen car. What sort of punishment should he get?

As for the poster who asked why should a servant of the state get a higher level of protection, it's because as part of their duties they have a higher level of exposure to possibly disgruntled citizens who MIGHT be crazy enough to think that murder of a State figure is a statement of some sort.

gatecrash

gatecrash wrote: »

That's what I'm asking, Bluewolf.

The Death penalty is gone, and as part of the EU we cannot bring it back, it's as simple as that.

What do we use instead?

I said that in the 2nd half of my post?

Phill Ewinn

Certain crimes and criminals are suitable for capital punishment IMO. Very, very few. I wonder if like US there'd be no effect on the reduction in serious crime. The greatest impact would be the devaluation of human life and so a breakdown in societies standards.

The King of Moo

I don't believe in the death penalty. It doesn't exactly leave much room for appeal, and it's too close to the idea of "two wrongs make a right." I also believe an effective life sentence that is just that: a sentence for life is much worse punishment, especially if it involves lots of restrictions and maybe stretches of solitary confinement for particularly heinous. It means that the criminal suffers for and regrets his crime for their whole life. Killing them seems too much like letting them get away with not suffering for their crime.
And deep down, I just don't like the idea of deliberately killing a human being, whether it's officially state-sanctioned or otherwise.

tightropetom

DaveDaRave wrote: »

Why does someones job effect how their murderer will be punished.
All lives are equally important.

All lives are equally important but the Gardai face injury and death quite frequently while trying to protect the citizens of this country. Ask Robbie McCallion, Gerry McCabe, Henry Byrne, Gda Morley.

Daroxtar

Rehab?
Rockall

the groutch

tightropetom wrote: »

All lives are equally important but the Gardai face injury and death quite frequently while trying to protect the citizens of this country. Ask Robbie McCallion, Gerry McCabe, Henry Byrne, Gda Morley.

someone anti-Shinner always has to bring up Gerry McCabe

cyrusdvirus

the groutch wrote: »

someone anti-Shinner always has to bring up Gerry McCabe

you can shag right off with that attitude

Misticles

do the crime..... have sexy time with the female prison garda...

win win imo :P

cyrusdvirus

Misticles wrote: »

do the crime..... have sexy time with the female prison garda...

win win imo :P

Misty, i love you more and more each day!! :pac:

Run_to_da_hills

gatecrash wrote: »

Stemming on from the 4 burglars thread.

Capital punishment.

In 1990 Ireland abolished the Death Penalty, and in 2002 it was removed from the Stature Books by a referendum.

I asked the question should we have done that, given that we are sending the Gardai out with radios (that according to some members i know are not the greatest or most reliable) and nightsticks. Once upon a time a Garda had the relative comfort of knowing that if someone DID manage to murder/kill him in the line of duty, then the Death Penalty was an option for the state.

That has been taken away, so now how should we punish people who ARE guilty of a capital crime, ie murder of a foreign diplomat, murder or a TD, Murder of a Garda or Soldier in the course of their duties, Treason.

Someone suggested exile on an Oil rig.

Hasn't the Lisbon Treaty reintroduced the death penalty?

http://wiseupjournal.com/?p=285

Misticles

gatecrash wrote: »

Misty, i love you more and more each day!! :pac:

well you gotta commit a crime......

cyrusdvirus

Misticles wrote: »

well you gotta commit a crime......

motor boating at excessive speed??

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Hasn't the Lisbon Treaty reintroduced the death penalty?

http://wiseupjournal.com/?p=285

No.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Had a case in 1985 in ireland where the garda killer faced the death penalty which was commuted to 40 years- http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0415/callann.html

El Weirdo

If there's one thing stopping me from committing a crime, it's the fact that I might have to face the Question Mark Triplets.

Da Shins Kelly

There's far to much room for error with the death penalty. If one person is wrongfully executed, then that pretty much invalidates the entire practice, in my opinion.

Naikon

If you are facing life, you should be given a handgun along with a single bullet. Decide your own remaining fate.

Richard Hillman

DaveDaRave wrote: »

Why does someones job effect how their murderer will be punished.
All lives are equally important.

The lives of the emergency services are far more important than the average Joe on the street. A doctor/nurse/garda/paramedic/firemans life is far more important than mine or yours.

Naikon

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The lives of the emergency services are far more important than the average Joe on the street. A doctor/nurse/garda/paramedic/firemans life is far more important than mine or yours.

Actually, this is a subjective observation. "Importance" isn't something our universe is too concerned with. We can only ascribe meaning based on our own perceptions. It's nothing to do with reality.

CatFromHue

bluewolf wrote: »

Sorry, but I can't agree with killing people to show that killing people is wrong.

Time & rehab - and I do mean actual time, not suspended sentences or a year here and there. Particularly if there are previous convictions.

i partially agree with this. the thing that stops me fully is what to do with people who are pure evil. there are very few if them in existence in ireland but they do exist.

we are into the what if's here but what if a couple of girls are found raped and murdered and it is found that larry murphy did it. what if during his trial for these crimes it is also proven that he murdered and raped the girls that went missing around the time he commited the crime that he has just been released for. we are now faced with the situation of a serial rapist and killer. he would have shown that if in the future he is ever released/escaped he would commit the same crime again if given the chance.

what do we do here?

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

i partially agree with this. the thing that stops me fully is what to do with people who are pure evil. there are very few if them in existence in ireland but they do exist.

we are into the what if's here but what if a couple of girls are found raped and murdered and it is found that larry murphy did it. what if during his trial for these crimes it is also proven that he murdered and raped the girls that went missing around the time he commited the crime that he has just been released for. we are now faced with the situation of a serial rapist and killer. he would have shown that if in the future he is ever released/escaped he would commit the same crime again if given the chance.

what do we do here?

Was any genuine attempt made at rehab? I mean I am not saying everyone can be, but it would be nice if people did not come out of prisons with new addictions and if rehab attempts were made.
Failing that, lock them up for life. I just cannot condone their killing.

Wicklowrider

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The lives of the emergency services are far more important than the average Joe on the street. A doctor/nurse/garda/paramedic/firemans life is far more important than mine or yours.

As an ex Firefighter and an ex soldier I respectfully disagree. My life wasn't worth any more or any less than most peoples. No one made me join either service - I honestly think it was a privilige ( oh, and the pay was handy )

Dyr

gatecrash wrote: »

Stemming on from the 4 burglars thread.

Capital punishment.

In 1990 Ireland abolished the Death Penalty, and in 2002 it was removed from the Stature Books by a referendum.

I asked the question should we have done that, given that we are sending the Gardai out with radios (that according to some members i know are not the greatest or most reliable) and nightsticks. Once upon a time a Garda had the relative comfort of knowing that if someone DID manage to murder/kill him in the line of duty, then the Death Penalty was an option for the state.

That has been taken away, so now how should we punish people who ARE guilty of a capital crime, ie murder of a foreign diplomat, murder or a TD, Murder of a Garda or Soldier in the course of their duties, Treason.

Someone suggested exile on an Oil rig.

We send gardai out with collapsible ASP batons, pepper spray, stab vest and usually with one or more of their colleagues.

Oh, and the certainty that assaulting a copper is a major mistake if you value your physical wellbeing. Don't see why we need the death penalty, especially for murdering TD's :pac:

7sr2z3fely84g5

i think,if someone is convicted of crime of a sex nature,the stigma will always stay with them despite serving the sentence,who's gonna hire them,might aswell go back to crime of a different nature?...

My name is URL

Alberto Pitiful Technology wrote: »

i think,if someone is convicted of crime of a sex nature,the stigmata will always stay with them despite serving the sentence,who's gonna hire them,might aswell go back to crime?...

:eek:

ScumLord

gatecrash wrote: »

. Once upon a time a Garda had the relative comfort of knowing that if someone DID manage to murder/kill him in the line of duty, then the Death Penalty was an option for the state.

Plus he'd live just long enough to make his partner promise to avenge his death.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Your not considered for parole if convicted for murder of a guard.

CatFromHue

bluewolf wrote: »

Was any genuine attempt made at rehab? I mean I am not saying everyone can be, but it would be nice if people did not come out of prisons with new addictions and if rehab attempts were made.
Failing that, lock them up for life. I just cannot condone their killing.

i dont know. its a hypothetical situation really and i hope it never becomes true.

i dont know enough about what happens to people who are told they will never leave prison in their lifetime to give an accurate answere.

i do believe in america the death penalty is too widely used, butthere are evil people who given the chance will do awful acts on others no matter what. i also believe this isnt a perfect world and that our justice system is far from perfect. this on one hand wants the death penalty to never come (the chance that an innocent may be put to death) and for it to be brought in (the chance that an innocent person will be raped and killed by a person the justice system incorrectly freed/paroled).

id love to get a judge's personal opinion on the hypothetical case about larry murphy. not their lawful opinion, their personal opinion. they would know the law and would see how it actually works or doesnt work. if asked what should be done in this situation their answer would be very interesting.

tightropetom

the groutch wrote: »

someone anti-Shinner always has to bring up Gerry McCabe

anti-Shinner? I listed a number of Gardai who have been killed on duty, nothing to do with my political leanings.

Gda McCallion was killed by a joyrider. Byrne & Morley were killed by INLA members. Jeez, can't mention McCabe without offending the 'pro-Shinners'.

As someone above said - ya can feck right off with that attitude

:mad:

evercloserunion

You get more than a life sentence if you murder a guard, it's like 40 years or something IIRC.

I disagree with the death penalty because in a lot of cases you cannot be certain that the right person is being punished. And, if you try to get around that by putting in legal safeguards such as extensive rights of appeal, sending a criminal through the death penalty system eventually starts to cost as much as or more than imprisonment (as I think is the case in the US).

One argument I commonly hear against the death penalty is that it's hypocritical, because the State is undertaking exactly that act which it is trying to punish/deter. I don't understand this argument, never have. Surely by that logic, arresting and imprisoning someone because they abducted and imprisoned someone else is also hypocritical?

Naikon

Why the harsher sentance for killing a guard? Arbitrary sh4t like that riles me.

Mike 1972

Naikon wrote: »

Why the harsher sentance for killing a guard?

The theory goes that it represents an attack on the state and is therfore a more serious offence.

steddyeddy

tightropetom wrote: »

All lives are equally important but the Gardai face injury and death quite frequently while trying to protect the citizens of this country. Ask Robbie McCallion, Gerry McCabe, Henry Byrne, Gda Morley.

All lives are equal full stop. Theres enough lunacy regarding class in this country to think that a member of the garda siochchana has a more important life than other person.

Greentopia

gatecrash wrote: »

That has been taken away, so now how should we punish people who ARE guilty of a capital crime, ie murder of a foreign diplomat, murder or a TD, Murder of a Garda or Soldier in the course of their duties, Treason.

Same way we punish anyone who commits murder, or should at least-mandatory life sentence in prison.
I don't agree with the death penalty for the reasons others have given-wrong person can be convicted of a crime and executed, don't believe in state sanctioned murder which is effectively what it is, it's not proven to be a deterrent in countries that have it like the U.S.
If it did the U.S. would have a lower murder rate than Canada or Europe, but it doesn't.

Gandhi said it best- 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

Anyway, as I said in the 4 burglars thread, it's academic because the E.U. would never allow us to re-introduce it.

tightropetom

steddyeddy wrote: »

All lives are equal full stop. Theres enough lunacy regarding class in this country to think that a member of the garda siochchana has a more important life than other person.

It's not about class, and it's not about them being more important than anyone else - it's about your job requiring to put your life in danger. It's also about being an attack on the state (by attacking a representative of the state). If you read my post I've stated that all lives are equal. I didn't suggest anyone has a more important life than anyone else... Sheesh

MagicSean

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The lives of the emergency services are far more important than the average Joe on the street. A doctor/nurse/garda/paramedic/firemans life is far more important than mine or yours.

It's not about a person being important. It's about the effect of the death. Murdering a Garda or soldier or member of government is an attack on the state and our way of living. The individual isn't important, the position he has been placed in by the citizens of the country is.

Personally I don't see the point of the death penalty. I think there should be more serious jail time and proper life sentences for the truly evil. I'd rather they introduce castration for multiple sex offendors to be honest.

strobe

gatecrash wrote: »

Do the crime face the...

You call that a crime face!? This is a crime face :eek:. Now let me see your real crime face!!

ciano1

Blast the criminal with p*ss and leave it at that!

steddyeddy

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The lives of the emergency services are far more important than the average Joe on the street. A doctor/nurse/garda/paramedic/firemans life is far more important than mine or yours.

I dont subscirbe to the idea that one persons life is worth more than the other. Its dangerous tripe.

steddyeddy

tightropetom wrote: »

It's not about class, and it's not about them being more important than anyone else - it's about your job requiring to put your life in danger. It's also about being an attack on the state (by attacking a representative of the state).

Fair enough but that would depend on wheter a person is putting their life in danger. Some gaurds put there lives in danger more than others.

tightropetom

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fair enough but that would depend on wheter a person is putting their life in danger. Some gaurds put there lives in danger more than others.

Yes, but you only get killed once

up for anything

Naikon wrote: »

Tell that to our arabian friends.

A near record in trying to derail a topic. :rolleyes:

steddyeddy

tightropetom wrote: »

Yes, but you only get killed once

Yes everyone can only get killed once.

karma_

I'd only ever support the death peno reinstated for the crime of creating stupid fcukin threads... like this one.