SAAB: Is this the final nail in the coffin

johnos1984

Seems they have 2 weeks to pay wages.....or else

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13885267

Its MGR all over again with a Chinese saviour dragging things out long enough to bankrupt the company and then they will swoop in and pick up the pieces at knock down prices

Owen

There was a brand new 95 in my estate yesterday. God it's ugly. Guy driving it was old, and kept parking close and closer to the kerb until there was a long scrape noise from both his alloys. Must be an older generation thing, my Mother does the same.

Fiesta

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Must be an older generation thing, my Mother does the same.

Yes, but your mother knows where to get it fixed, for free

Vicxas

Saab used to look awesome, now they're the rover of sweden... shame really. always wanted a 95 when i was younger.

godtabh

wonder what impact this will have on saab parts. I could probably do with a few in awhile!

Cookie_Monster

PaintDoctor wrote: »

There was a brand new 95 in my estate yesterday. God it's ugly.

I thought that at first but it's grown on me quite a lot the more I see them

manatoo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I thought that at first but it's grown on me quite a lot the more I see them

I think they're the best looking car in that range. I was hoping they'd sell a few more before they go pop so that I can buy one when they're a ripe 10-12 years old

R.O.R

I do think the newe 9-5 is an epic looking car!

Certainly got a lot of attention when we had one in earlier this year.

Shame is doesn't go as well as it looks.

JimmyCrackCorn

PaintDoctor wrote: »

There was a brand new 95 in my estate yesterday. God it's ugly. Guy driving it was old, and kept parking close and closer to the kerb until there was a long scrape noise from both his alloys. Must be an older generation thing, my Mother does the same.

I saw one yesterday in citywest and said it to someone beside me.

They used to look so nice now they have a huge grill chrome bits and is just plain ugly.

Ugly cars killed saab and I loved the 9000 and the old aero

ofcork

They seemed to have poor reliability esp under gm ownership,i was looking at previous model 93s but reading reviews on honestjohn and other sites with new cars breaking down put me right off.

Drummerboy08

Let's face it - what have Saab got to offer you? If you walked into a Saab showroom, is there anything that would tickle your fancy, or tempt your wallet out of your pocket?

The 93 - based on a car that no longer exists, and it's main selling point seems to be the "Night Panel" button on the dash, that's purpose is to make it even harder to drive at night, and to give the owner a great conversation starter "You know, I've a button from a 40 year old fighter jet, in my brand new, yet ancient Saab"

The 95 - Beaten well by the 5 Series, A6, Volvo S80, 3 Series, A4, Volvo S60, Ford Mondeo, Opel Insignia, Skoda Superb, the list is endless.......

The........oh, that's it.

Looking at it from the above point of view, why does it come as a surprise to anyone that the end of Saab is nigh?

In saying all that, it's sad to see any car manufacturer go to the wall, especially for the 4,000-odd employees working there. Just as well they offer nothing to miss.

-Corkie-

R.O.R wrote: »

I do think the newe 9-5 is an epic looking car!

Certainly got a lot of attention when we had one in earlier this year.

Shame is doesn't go as well as it looks.

I think they look brilliant on the exterior anyway. I havent seen the inside of the new one. Do they give any problems??

ofcork

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Let's face it - what have Saab got to offer you? If you walked into a Saab showroom, is there anything that would tickle your fancy, or tempt your wallet out of your pocket?

The 93 - based on a car that no longer exists, and it's main selling point seems to be the "Night Panel" button on the dash, that's purpose is to make it even harder to drive at night, and to give the owner a great conversation starter "You know, I've a button from a 40 year old fighter jet, in my brand new, yet ancient Saab"

The 95 - Beaten well by the 5 Series, A6, Volvo S80, 3 Series, A4, Volvo S60, Ford Mondeo, Opel Insignia, Skoda Superb, the list is endless.......

The........oh, that's it.

Looking at it from the above point of view, why does it come as a surprise to anyone that the end of Saab is nigh?

In saying all that, it's sad to see any car manufacturer go to the wall, especially for the 4,000-odd employees working there. Just as well they offer nothing to miss.

Thats the thing if they got their act together at the time you could have had a good alternative to the three germans esp,lexus have proved that.

VolvoMan

I'm really starting to think Victor Muller was full of waffle all along. He doesn't seem to have any idea how to run a business.

I very much hope the company survives though.

johnos1984

-Corkie- wrote: »

I think they look brilliant on the exterior anyway. I havent seen the inside of the new one. Do they give any problems??

I have always found the interior to be a huge letdown.

Lots of cheap plastic and poor finish on the plastics.

Nice seats though

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

wonder what impact this will have on saab parts. I could probably do with a few in awhile!

None at all, not for a decade or so anyway

rabbitinlights

They have not made a profit for 20 years......

galwaytt

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Let's face it - what have Saab got to offer you? If you walked into a Saab showroom, is there anything that would tickle your fancy, or tempt your wallet out of your pocket?

The 93 - based on a car that no longer exists, and it's main selling point seems to be the "Night Panel" button on the dash, that's purpose is to make it even harder to drive at night, and to give the owner a great conversation starter "You know, I've a button from a 40 year old fighter jet, in my brand new, yet ancient Saab"

The 95 - Beaten well by the 5 Series, A6, Volvo S80, 3 Series, A4, Volvo S60, Ford Mondeo, Opel Insignia, Skoda Superb, the list is endless.......

The........oh, that's it.

Looking at it from the above point of view, why does it come as a surprise to anyone that the end of Saab is nigh?

In saying all that, it's sad to see any car manufacturer go to the wall, especially for the 4,000-odd employees working there. Just as well they offer nothing to miss.

Hate to rain on your parade, but........all imho, that is........

The 9-3 1.9 diesel is a fine motor, and something a Passat could only dream of, smoothness & reliability-wise.
Saab's generally are a higher spec than the equivalent German...a lot come with leather and full climate for instance.....and were cheaper than German, new......and so, used, are better value too.
Sure being a GM can be a downside sometimes. But when it comes to need a part, you'll be glad.........'cos it'll easy to get, and they're everywhere.

Me, I think the 9-3SS is a good looking car, esp in estate form.

As said, all imho.

madison2011

I loooove my saab 9-3. Never lets me down. I would kill for one of those new ones.Hope the chinese will float SAAB fast.
Would a dandy cup holder count as a 'feature'?

Arthur Daley

GM's ownership seems to have killed SAAB. There has been underinvestment over the years, and basing high end cars on below standard Vectras was never fooling anyone.

When was the last 'proper' SAAB before GM's ownership? The old 9000 developed with Fiat/Lancia/Alfa. You see that perception is what is killing it as a high end brand. Ford did a better job with Volvo.

selfbuildkk

Frick I just bought a 93. had no probs so far but hoping they stay afloat cos im loving the new styling and was hoping to upgrade in a year or two to the newer model.the spec and price just blew the 3 series and audi out of the water.no comparison.

R.O.R

-Corkie- wrote: »

I think they look brilliant on the exterior anyway. I havent seen the inside of the new one. Do they give any problems??

Have you seen the inside of an Insignia? Except for the (very cool) Aircraft style speedo in the centre of the dash, and the huge expanse of black plastic around the radio, you could be in the Insignia. Steering wheel and switchgear are exactly the same.

johnos1984 wrote: »

I have always found the interior to be a huge letdown.

Lots of cheap plastic and poor finish on the plastics.

Nice seats though

Even the nice seats are gone. Seats in the new 9-5 are lifted straight out of the Insignia, electric adjustments and all.

They aren't poor seats in fairness, but they aren't the supportive, comfy seats that came in the old 9-5.

pippip

The wheel is similar but how are they alike apart from that?

Tea 1000

galwaytt wrote: »

Hate to rain on your parade, but........all imho, that is........

The 9-3 1.9 diesel is a fine motor, and something a Passat could only dream of, smoothness & reliability-wise.
Saab's generally are a higher spec than the equivalent German...a lot come with leather and full climate for instance.....and were cheaper than German, new......and so, used, are better value too.
Sure being a GM can be a downside sometimes. But when it comes to need a part, you'll be glad.........'cos it'll easy to get, and they're everywhere.

Me, I think the 9-3SS is a good looking car, esp in estate form.

As said, all imho.

The 1.9 diesel Saab 9-3 might have a fine motor, but that same fine motor is also in a 159. And that motor is soundly whipped by the Passat's 2 litre CR motor in every respect. And I'm no VAG fan, thats for sure.
The 9-3 interior is appallingly bad from a finish point of view, with the buttons for the windows actually rattling in their housings, this was in a brand new one that I sat in. I loved them up until this. Dynamically they're average. They're the same price as a 159, which is better built, nicer looking, better finish inside, and nicer to drive.
And the estate 9-3 is absolutely horrible! The saloon is nice looking, albiet a little old now.

VolvoMan

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Ford did a better job with Volvo.

They didn't really. Ford's ownership period of Volvo was much shorter and they weren't exactly a basket case of a company before they were taken over like SAAB. They also made the brand loss-making by the end of the last decade and many of the new Ford based products such as the current V70 are inferior to their predecessors.

What really killed SAAB was a lack of investment in new product. The original 9-5 for instance was a competitive car in its day, but left to soldier on for 13 years. They were never going to be successful with only a two model line-up either.

OldGuysRule

Each to their own. I have had three 9-5s over the past 6 years (and a 9000 for a couple of years before that) and it is only the arrival of a company car to the house that will change that. They are great cruisers, well able to pick up and fly when required and are really comfortable. There may be better cars out there for going round the 'Ring or for impressing in the golf club car park or outside the school gates, but I have always been happy with Saab.

Cars really are something that you buy with your heart not your head. How many of us ever really push a car to its chassis / engine / drivetrain limits on a daily basis? If you do, a four door exec saloon (this side of €100k) is not really for you.

It would be a shame to see them go at this stage, especially as things are getting so bland out there. I really like the new 9-5, especially the SportCombi due out soon, really hope they survive long enough to get that to market in September.

As I said at the start, each to their own.

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

Even the nice seats are gone. Seats in the new 9-5 are lifted straight out of the Insignia, electric adjustments and all.

They aren't poor seats in fairness, but they aren't the supportive, comfy seats that came in the old 9-5.

The basic seats are from GM but the upgraded ones are still made by the same factory that made the seats for OG 9-5. There also appears to be at least two different grades of leather upholstery for those seats, basic one being quite plastic like.

And this brings us to the problem with the new 9-5: To get it up to a nice spec level will cost you dearly. I think these cars look really handsome and would make a nice alternative to the "school uniform, cloned house" competitors. If I had a few extra bob I would have no problems driving a nicely spec'd 2.8 AWD, for example.

Let's hope the company will survive under the joint ownership with the Chinese backers and that they'll be able to complete the design of 9-2, 9-3 in the pipeline for the next couple of years.

galwaytt

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The 1.9 diesel Saab 9-3 might have a fine motor, but that same fine motor is also in a 159. And that motor is soundly whipped by the Passat's 2 litre CR motor in every respect. And I'm no VAG fan, thats for sure.
The 9-3 interior is appallingly bad from a finish point of view, with the buttons for the windows actually rattling in their housings, this was in a brand new one that I sat in. I loved them up until this. Dynamically they're average. They're the same price as a 159, which is better built, nicer looking, better finish inside, and nicer to drive.
And the estate 9-3 is absolutely horrible! The saloon is nice looking, albiet a little old now.

I'm aware it's actually a Fiat engine, at to me, that's a good thing.

Well, using a B6 2.0Tdi for work, and it having consumed 3 injectors (at over €500 a go btw....), 2 x DMF's and a littany of engine light's in its bare 100k mile existance, I can assure you that the Passat is.....lighter on juice, pulls better. And that's it. It's noisier, rougher, uses oil, and l'm getting to the stage where I'll buy one of those rally-boy's 'Tow' stickers for the front........and leave the towing eye in, permanently. It's rubbish. And it cost more, as well.

The only repair I've done on the Saab is to clean the EGR at 120k odd.

Sometimes less is, indeed, more.

I'd buy the Alfa version in the morning, no problem.

Gonna disagree on the looks of the Saab though.

For Forks Sake

OldGuysRule wrote: »

It would be a shame to see them go at this stage, especially as things are getting so bland out there. I really like the new 9-5, especially the SportCombi due out soon, really hope they survive long enough to get that to market in September.

As I said at the start, each to their own.

It looks huge. Certainly better designed than the last 9-5 estate, which looked like someone had just glued a load of extra glass to the saloon as an afterthought. I wonder is the boot bigger than the Superb

Tea 1000

galwaytt wrote: »

I'm aware it's actually a Fiat engine, at to me, that's a good thing.

Well, using a B6 2.0Tdi for work, and it having consumed 3 injectors (at over €500 a go btw....), 2 x DMF's and a littany of engine light's in its bare 100k mile existance, I can assure you that the Passat is.....lighter on juice, pulls better. And that's it. It's noisier, rougher, uses oil, and l'm getting to the stage where I'll buy one of those rally-boy's 'Tow' stickers for the front........and leave the towing eye in, permanently. It's rubbish. And it cost more, as well.

The only repair I've done on the Saab is to clean the EGR at 120k odd.

Sometimes less is, indeed, more.

I'd buy the Alfa version in the morning, no problem.

Gonna disagree on the looks of the Saab though.

I would say that your B6 Passat is the PD 2 litre TDi, because the CR unit is far quieter than the average these days Fiat unit. The PD unit was far less reliable also. Based on that, you're right - the Fiat 1.9 is better in all those other areas. Don't get me wrong, the Fiat unit was great in it's day, but is aging a little, and the new 2 litre version didn't move the refinement forward enough. Which is a shame, but I'd still use one in the bay of a Guilietta if one was given to me!

245

In a strange twist of fate its rumoured that Opel will be sold by GM to either VW or to a Chinese buyer so the Insignia has an uncertain future in common with its Swedish cousin

johnos1984

245 wrote: »

In a strange twist of fate its rumoured that Opel will be sold by GM to either VW or to a Chinese buyer so the Insignia has an uncertain future in common with its Swedish cousin

Any link to that?

I've only read VW were interested in Alfa

245

johnos1984 wrote: »

Any link to that?

I've only read VW were interested in Alfa

Unfortunately not but if you pop down to your local newsagent and have a look at page 32 of July's Car magazine, you'll read all about it.

According to VW, Skoda & Seat will take on the Korean brands, Opel will compete with Toyota and VW will rise above it all. Apparently, VW considered this back in 2009 as well. There would be a lot of political/union pressure for a suitable (German?) buyer - Opel employs over 24,000 people in Germany.